NeoCORE
03-18-2003, 12:26 PM
Hey all,
Well, am sitting in work, bored, occasionally saying "Goodevening this is Paul from BT..." and I have said several times that if I were to get linux installed and working I would post a guide for the nwbie perspective (me being a newbie to linux in general)...
First of all, I have to say that if you want to use linux as your primary OS and still get all the features of your cool Sager laptop working, you are going to have to do a good bit of reading... and a whole lot of messing up :D + a whole lot of configuring... but then again, thats the reason you are moving to linux... because it is faster, better software and you are fed up with microsoft holding your hand through everything :).
OK, so I have tried Mandrake, Red Hat, Suse... all great Distros... but gentoo is the best I have seen so far... it makes what is generally fairly hard to do if you are inexperienced, extremely easily... and that is compiling software from sources...
Right, first of all, have a look at gentoo's website, www.gentoo.org. have a look at the advertising speil, cause it does generally do what it says it will.
Gentoo, doesn't hold your hand, gentoo allows you to compile, your whole OS, so it is specifically for your machine architecture and therefore will run faster, as it can take advantage of specific CPU code, and hopefully run with no errors or problems...
Gentoo also, allows you to compile everything you want to install, specifically for your machine... they have a very useful program which they base their system on, called emerge.
Basically, what it does is, you provide it with the package you want to install.... e.g. fluxbox, it then checks the dependicies of fluxbox, sees it requires a theme package and X11 display manager etc. and downloads and installs them all for you from the approved portage database... this is great cause it batch compiles them and you don't have to do anything... that and they are all gentoo approved, so the chances of something going wrong is very slim. There is a downside though... say you want to install kmail, and your window manager is fluxbox, if you use the emerge command (you should always use emerge --pretend first) it will install kmail for you... but also install KDE and all it's dependencies... not so nice in this case.. this is why you have to compile the packages individually... with ebuild... which again does all the hardwork anyway.
So... thats a quick general background on gentoo and the basics of its system, it has a large community background, and a large package database... so I think I am gonna stick with it for a while, as the support is there.
OK, so enough of the rambling, tell me how to install it is what your now thinking :)
Well, here's how :)
First of all, the normal disclaimer... you do this at your own discretion, I will not be held accountable for any damage that occurs in using these instructions, especially, if you get so frustrated, that you put a sledge hammer through your lappy :)
That aside, heres what to do:
I have installed several distros as I said, including rh and mdk, both of them seem to have trouble with pcmcia or firewire ports on our lappy's... with them, there is an easy get around of using nopcmcia as a command line argument... unfortunately gentoo does not provide this option :( But, there is a solution... from my take on it, it is all to do with kernel support, and the newer the kernel the installtion uses, because the kernel is compiled to recognise almost all hardware a conflict occurs somewhere and the system hangs... the way round this? easy, use an older kernel.
So, how do we do this, first of all, don't download any of the 1.4 gentoo livecd's as they all seem to have this problem ( Update: theres an experimental liveCD that works well with booting with just nopcmcia... it has lynx and a few other handy tools, check it out :)), the best way round this is to download the 1.2 cd... "But I want the latest version" your saying now... don't worry, what you esentially downloading is a mini linux platform in order to install the latest versions :) happy now?
Anyway, download the 1.2 livecd ( the smaller one, with only the first stage on it, we don't want the larger one as it contains all the older 1.2 stages on it.) and write it to cd :)
Now, the one disadvantage of the 1.2 cd is it is missing one or 2 wee helpful tools that the 1.4 has, and the main one's are lynx and net-setup... so to get round the loss of lynx, please note down the address of whatever stages you want to use on a few mirrors...
Now, to explain these stages, you...
So, should you choose to start from a stage1, stage2, or stage3 tarball? Starting from a stage1 allows you to have total control over the optimization settings and optional build-time functionality that is initially enabled on your system. This makes stage1 installs good for power users who know what they are doing. Stage2 installs allow you to skip the bootstrap process, and doing this is fine if you are happy with the optimization settings that we chose for your particular stage2 tarball. Choosing to go with a stage3 allows for the fastest install of Gentoo Linux, but also means that your base system will have the optimization settings that we chose for you. Since major releases of Gentoo Linux have stage3's specifically optimized for various popular processors, this may be sufficient for you. If you're installing Gentoo Linux for the first time, consider using a stage3 tarball for installation.
Myself, even though I am a newbie, decided on stage1 and didn't have very many problems. It just takes around 2 hours to download and compile. :)
Ok, from here on in, the guide for the 1.4_rc3 intstall is great, it explains everything very well :) and therefore I am going to link you to that :)
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml
Ok, a few pointers though... setting up grub can be a little confusing... when it says type in "root" and "setup" root where your linux root is, and setup is where you want to right the grub boot loader to. The root has to have the bootloader files in it for it to work.
You have to be extremly careful here, espeically if you have a windows XP install, chosing the wrong HD can end up with you XP boot loader buggered/lost... (a solution to which I have yet to find :( but I think I have thought of a way that I will try when I get home :)) But anyway if you want to know which partition is which, type fdisk hda and then p and it will give you a print out of the partition list and the size and type etc.
Ok... now, a few more tips for when you are going through the install... for the kernel compiling, gentoo makes it relatively easy, but for extra reading (gentoo kernels already have apci by default) check out laclasses linux install guide which is a sticky on this forum. Also, have a look at www.linux.com and search for kernel compile guide... it is a good idea to do some background reading on this... but gentoo generally sets up the config in such a way that you don't have to change much... and lets always remember... if you do mess up, stick in the 1.2 boot cd and mount the gentoo partition and make it root again as it says in the install guide, and try again... this means you don't have to repeatly start from the start :)
----------------------------------
Updated 25/03/03
----------------------------------
I recommend the "emerge gaming-sources" kernel for people wanting speed during games, these have been reported to get another 25% or so out of your system ( e.g. normally 25fps with the gaming sources 40)
Basically, modify the kernel config using menuconfig (cd to your kernel source dir.. default /usr/src/linux and type make menuconfig)
Things to note in configuring:
Modules needed:
Realtec 8139 network card support
(file system you are using)
AGPgart
DRI (I believe it is DRM Support listed in the kernel config)
!Don't install the radeon DRM - use the xfree/atidrivers module!
PCMCIA etc. the rest are pretty obvious... but make sure you have a good read of laclasses guide!
then just type make dep && make clean bzImage modules modules_install
and then cp /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot/bzImage
/boot/
The rest is explained in both laclasses and the linux install guide.
Ok... now, once you have finsihed the install guide and rebooted, its time to get a GUI and a few other pieces of software.
For a start, emerge xfree-drm
once it finishes cd to the xfree dir (if I remeber right it defaults to /usr/XFR6/bin/... but I am prolly wrong so use find / -name xf86cfg :))
and run xf86cfg... make sure and choose radeon (option 6 I belive) as your card type (choose view list)
Also, for an 8886, pick 8 for display res (1280x1024 @ 60) and 1 (50-70) for the display set up.
Once that is all, emerge your choice of gui...
general run down:
Fluxbox: extremely fast, but light, if your used to windows... you proly wont find the simplified GUI of fluxbox to ur liking to start off with
Gnome: My personal choice.. fast... fully featured... pretty, but not overally
Enlightenment: tried, didn't like... 2d clouds appear as tooltips... just not my type of gui
KDE: very pretty... extremely full featured... not very fast :S
ok, once you have choosen, just type emerge (wm)
Right... now, we have a window manager, and X... but we need to tell X to start the window manager.
For gnome + kde cd to thier dir and use their very pretty gdm/kdm login manager... for fluxbox + enlightenment create a .xinit (I think thats the file name... don't quote me) and insert "exec /path/to/wm/exe" in the home dir of the user you are loggin in as + chmod it to 700.
Also, for fluxbox make a .fluxbox dir.
Ok, now, you should have a fully functional wm and should feel right at home.
Now, customise it a little and get ready to add the following software:
Browser:
options - gadeon, mozilla, opera, phoenix
I use - phoenix
Multimedia:
Audio - xmms
Video - gxine, mplayer
I use - mplayer + xmms
IRC:
xchat is the only one really worth talkin about.
Also, emerge wine-cvs if you need :)
After you have done all that, get browsing... start messing, configuring... take a look at gentoo forums, they're great... also www.linux.com and regularly enter the sager IRC channel for linux chat :)
I hope this makes it a bit easier for people to install gentoo... good luck, and let me know what you think :)
Total time to do all this (compile from stage 1): around 8 hrs on a 2.4Ghz
Cheers,
NeoCORE
(One final note, everything I have said above, is bound to have a few technical errors to a experienced linux user, what I have said is usually my logical conclusion, and in some cases it may not have been the only logical conclusion, but the one I thought fitted... please correct me if you think otherwise, as I want to learn as much as I can.)
Well, am sitting in work, bored, occasionally saying "Goodevening this is Paul from BT..." and I have said several times that if I were to get linux installed and working I would post a guide for the nwbie perspective (me being a newbie to linux in general)...
First of all, I have to say that if you want to use linux as your primary OS and still get all the features of your cool Sager laptop working, you are going to have to do a good bit of reading... and a whole lot of messing up :D + a whole lot of configuring... but then again, thats the reason you are moving to linux... because it is faster, better software and you are fed up with microsoft holding your hand through everything :).
OK, so I have tried Mandrake, Red Hat, Suse... all great Distros... but gentoo is the best I have seen so far... it makes what is generally fairly hard to do if you are inexperienced, extremely easily... and that is compiling software from sources...
Right, first of all, have a look at gentoo's website, www.gentoo.org. have a look at the advertising speil, cause it does generally do what it says it will.
Gentoo, doesn't hold your hand, gentoo allows you to compile, your whole OS, so it is specifically for your machine architecture and therefore will run faster, as it can take advantage of specific CPU code, and hopefully run with no errors or problems...
Gentoo also, allows you to compile everything you want to install, specifically for your machine... they have a very useful program which they base their system on, called emerge.
Basically, what it does is, you provide it with the package you want to install.... e.g. fluxbox, it then checks the dependicies of fluxbox, sees it requires a theme package and X11 display manager etc. and downloads and installs them all for you from the approved portage database... this is great cause it batch compiles them and you don't have to do anything... that and they are all gentoo approved, so the chances of something going wrong is very slim. There is a downside though... say you want to install kmail, and your window manager is fluxbox, if you use the emerge command (you should always use emerge --pretend first) it will install kmail for you... but also install KDE and all it's dependencies... not so nice in this case.. this is why you have to compile the packages individually... with ebuild... which again does all the hardwork anyway.
So... thats a quick general background on gentoo and the basics of its system, it has a large community background, and a large package database... so I think I am gonna stick with it for a while, as the support is there.
OK, so enough of the rambling, tell me how to install it is what your now thinking :)
Well, here's how :)
First of all, the normal disclaimer... you do this at your own discretion, I will not be held accountable for any damage that occurs in using these instructions, especially, if you get so frustrated, that you put a sledge hammer through your lappy :)
That aside, heres what to do:
I have installed several distros as I said, including rh and mdk, both of them seem to have trouble with pcmcia or firewire ports on our lappy's... with them, there is an easy get around of using nopcmcia as a command line argument... unfortunately gentoo does not provide this option :( But, there is a solution... from my take on it, it is all to do with kernel support, and the newer the kernel the installtion uses, because the kernel is compiled to recognise almost all hardware a conflict occurs somewhere and the system hangs... the way round this? easy, use an older kernel.
So, how do we do this, first of all, don't download any of the 1.4 gentoo livecd's as they all seem to have this problem ( Update: theres an experimental liveCD that works well with booting with just nopcmcia... it has lynx and a few other handy tools, check it out :)), the best way round this is to download the 1.2 cd... "But I want the latest version" your saying now... don't worry, what you esentially downloading is a mini linux platform in order to install the latest versions :) happy now?
Anyway, download the 1.2 livecd ( the smaller one, with only the first stage on it, we don't want the larger one as it contains all the older 1.2 stages on it.) and write it to cd :)
Now, the one disadvantage of the 1.2 cd is it is missing one or 2 wee helpful tools that the 1.4 has, and the main one's are lynx and net-setup... so to get round the loss of lynx, please note down the address of whatever stages you want to use on a few mirrors...
Now, to explain these stages, you...
So, should you choose to start from a stage1, stage2, or stage3 tarball? Starting from a stage1 allows you to have total control over the optimization settings and optional build-time functionality that is initially enabled on your system. This makes stage1 installs good for power users who know what they are doing. Stage2 installs allow you to skip the bootstrap process, and doing this is fine if you are happy with the optimization settings that we chose for your particular stage2 tarball. Choosing to go with a stage3 allows for the fastest install of Gentoo Linux, but also means that your base system will have the optimization settings that we chose for you. Since major releases of Gentoo Linux have stage3's specifically optimized for various popular processors, this may be sufficient for you. If you're installing Gentoo Linux for the first time, consider using a stage3 tarball for installation.
Myself, even though I am a newbie, decided on stage1 and didn't have very many problems. It just takes around 2 hours to download and compile. :)
Ok, from here on in, the guide for the 1.4_rc3 intstall is great, it explains everything very well :) and therefore I am going to link you to that :)
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml
Ok, a few pointers though... setting up grub can be a little confusing... when it says type in "root" and "setup" root where your linux root is, and setup is where you want to right the grub boot loader to. The root has to have the bootloader files in it for it to work.
You have to be extremly careful here, espeically if you have a windows XP install, chosing the wrong HD can end up with you XP boot loader buggered/lost... (a solution to which I have yet to find :( but I think I have thought of a way that I will try when I get home :)) But anyway if you want to know which partition is which, type fdisk hda and then p and it will give you a print out of the partition list and the size and type etc.
Ok... now, a few more tips for when you are going through the install... for the kernel compiling, gentoo makes it relatively easy, but for extra reading (gentoo kernels already have apci by default) check out laclasses linux install guide which is a sticky on this forum. Also, have a look at www.linux.com and search for kernel compile guide... it is a good idea to do some background reading on this... but gentoo generally sets up the config in such a way that you don't have to change much... and lets always remember... if you do mess up, stick in the 1.2 boot cd and mount the gentoo partition and make it root again as it says in the install guide, and try again... this means you don't have to repeatly start from the start :)
----------------------------------
Updated 25/03/03
----------------------------------
I recommend the "emerge gaming-sources" kernel for people wanting speed during games, these have been reported to get another 25% or so out of your system ( e.g. normally 25fps with the gaming sources 40)
Basically, modify the kernel config using menuconfig (cd to your kernel source dir.. default /usr/src/linux and type make menuconfig)
Things to note in configuring:
Modules needed:
Realtec 8139 network card support
(file system you are using)
AGPgart
DRI (I believe it is DRM Support listed in the kernel config)
!Don't install the radeon DRM - use the xfree/atidrivers module!
PCMCIA etc. the rest are pretty obvious... but make sure you have a good read of laclasses guide!
then just type make dep && make clean bzImage modules modules_install
and then cp /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot/bzImage
/boot/
The rest is explained in both laclasses and the linux install guide.
Ok... now, once you have finsihed the install guide and rebooted, its time to get a GUI and a few other pieces of software.
For a start, emerge xfree-drm
once it finishes cd to the xfree dir (if I remeber right it defaults to /usr/XFR6/bin/... but I am prolly wrong so use find / -name xf86cfg :))
and run xf86cfg... make sure and choose radeon (option 6 I belive) as your card type (choose view list)
Also, for an 8886, pick 8 for display res (1280x1024 @ 60) and 1 (50-70) for the display set up.
Once that is all, emerge your choice of gui...
general run down:
Fluxbox: extremely fast, but light, if your used to windows... you proly wont find the simplified GUI of fluxbox to ur liking to start off with
Gnome: My personal choice.. fast... fully featured... pretty, but not overally
Enlightenment: tried, didn't like... 2d clouds appear as tooltips... just not my type of gui
KDE: very pretty... extremely full featured... not very fast :S
ok, once you have choosen, just type emerge (wm)
Right... now, we have a window manager, and X... but we need to tell X to start the window manager.
For gnome + kde cd to thier dir and use their very pretty gdm/kdm login manager... for fluxbox + enlightenment create a .xinit (I think thats the file name... don't quote me) and insert "exec /path/to/wm/exe" in the home dir of the user you are loggin in as + chmod it to 700.
Also, for fluxbox make a .fluxbox dir.
Ok, now, you should have a fully functional wm and should feel right at home.
Now, customise it a little and get ready to add the following software:
Browser:
options - gadeon, mozilla, opera, phoenix
I use - phoenix
Multimedia:
Audio - xmms
Video - gxine, mplayer
I use - mplayer + xmms
IRC:
xchat is the only one really worth talkin about.
Also, emerge wine-cvs if you need :)
After you have done all that, get browsing... start messing, configuring... take a look at gentoo forums, they're great... also www.linux.com and regularly enter the sager IRC channel for linux chat :)
I hope this makes it a bit easier for people to install gentoo... good luck, and let me know what you think :)
Total time to do all this (compile from stage 1): around 8 hrs on a 2.4Ghz
Cheers,
NeoCORE
(One final note, everything I have said above, is bound to have a few technical errors to a experienced linux user, what I have said is usually my logical conclusion, and in some cases it may not have been the only logical conclusion, but the one I thought fitted... please correct me if you think otherwise, as I want to learn as much as I can.)