red hat newbie

[tdn327]

i am think bout installing linux with my xp proff., but have heard many rumor that it COULD corrupt ur windows file, and has any sucessfully install it on there sager labtop?

[dgantony]

I don't think you can install Linux if XP Pro has the entire partition to itself. The partioning tools that come with Mandrake cannot resize XP Pro partitions. It had no problems with XP Home. I am going to try out Partition Magic in a few days to create a partition that I could install linux into. I'll post my results as soon I get it working (or fail trying !!!)

I don't know much about the corruption rumor as I have not personally experienced it. It doesn't matter if it is true or not. Always make a backup of your system before trying out something you are not sure about. (In addition to the regular backups)

I did not have much luck installing Red Hat on my 5660. It stopped at the hardware recognition stage. Mandrake on the other hand just went on without a hitch. You might want to give Mandrake a try.

HTH,

dgantony.

[tdn327]

ok i c, thanks

[gardyloo]

I have also heard that Mandrake's partitioning tool doesn't work on WinXP Pro.
I tried recently to use Partition Magic 8 to resize my desktop's XP pro partition, so I could put gnu/linux on there too. But I have dual HDs on that computer, and, apparently, PM doesn't like RAIDs.

So just a warning: be careful with RAIDs and multiple harddrives and Windows! You can get in a position of not wanting to lose data after things have been used for a while, and putting linux on there may be too much of a hassle.


On the other hand, my 8886 should come in next Tuesday (yay!) and linux will definitely go on there first, then some Windows.

Oh, incidentally, Mandrake is the only distro I've gotten to work consistently on all the hardware I've put it on. I'm pretty much a linux noob too, and I *looove* Mandrake. Definitely recommended.

Cheers,
gardyloo

[beebster83]

If I've never even seen linux, lol, would you guys recommend trying to learn it and put it on my computer? I love learning this stuff, but I don't have a whole lot of time with school and stuff. I post to this forum frequently, but that only takes a few seconds, lol. Linux sounds sweet, but it also sounds like it takes a lot of time to learn it and it's one of those things that you can't really ever learn completely. Any thoughts?

Habib

[gardyloo]

This machine rocks, first of all, and the service in getting it to me was great. That's all I'll say here, for now, but if anyone wants to buy a beautiful computer, PCTORQUE is the place to get it from!

Now, on to linux: I am, by no stretch of the imagination, a linux expert. I've never built a kernel, or even developed any software for the OS. Things are frustrating at times. However, for someone who is somewhat familiar with Windows, linux can be a great experience. I find that many tasks are greatly simplified in linux (the GIMP for image editing; LyX for writing almost anything, e.g.). Of course, those are applications from within linux. I also have better computing habits (naming files correctly, etc.) which are inculcated by necessity, somewhat, but also out of a desire to be more efficient at this stuff. Besides, it's fun, especially if you like figuring new things out. The main thing I've learned is that there's usually another way to do something, and it's usually a lot easier and better than what you've already tried.

In short, if you don't get TOTALLY frustrated with computers, and you are moderately good at finding things on the web (my main source of information on how to do almost anything using linux), and you want somewhat of a challenge, AND you have a bit of time, or can MAKE a bit of time -- I'm a grad student; believe me: this is a necessary bit of it-- then try linux!

Cheers,
gardyloo

[beebster83]

Thanks gardyloo! You should post your initial thoughts about the 8886 in the general forums... It would be great to get your impressions and the like. I must admit though that linux sounds attractive to me because I like to learn that stuff. I find most anything on the web for windows, lol, cuz I usually want to do things with it that most people have never heard of around me. I like the MS knowledge base for that cuz it is so extensive... that's one of the redeeming qualities of Microsoft I think, but of course they had to have had lots of problems to have a big knowledge base, right? :-) Aw well, I'll think more about it. Thanks for your input!

Habib

[iNetJunkie]

AND you have a bit of time, or can MAKE a bit of time -- I'm a grad student; believe me: this is a necessary bit of it-- then try linux!That pretty much sums it up! Linux can be a lot of fun to play around with, but it is TIME CONSUMING to learn all that good stuff ;)

I'd like to hear more about Partition Magic... I'm interested in possibly doing a XP Pro / Mandrake installation too.

-iNJ

[beebster83]

Partition Magic 8 is what I used. It's a great program, but you have to buy a license. Basically it displays your hard drive(s) and a slider for each one and you can move it to create a separation. you also have the option of creating multiple partitions with different file systems (NTFS, FAT, etc). I used it to even out the two partitions of my hard drive. It was 10 - 30 split and now it's 20 - 20. I like having data and operating system separate. You have to remember, though, that you can only move the slider over where there is empty space, and it has to be physically next to the other partition. I know that sounds vague, but it's not that complicated. Basically here is a diagram, lol:

||--------__|-------__________||

Ok, the "||" represent ends of the physical drive and the "|" is the partition before I moved it (that's where the slider was at). The "---" is used space and the "__" is unused. In order to move the slider to the right, I had to first move that used space over as far as the slider was going to go, because you can't move the slider over actual used space... You see? In any case, the program does it all for you and you basically set it to do a bunch of things and it creates a batch file (which is a file with directions for all of these things to happen when you reboot). Then you reboot and wait a while (I waited two hours for what I did, cuz it has to move the info, change the partition, format the changed parts, etc). It just brings up a progress bar screen instead of windows. When it's finished, it automatically resets, and it's all finished. Only risk is if you lose power or shut off or do anything to interrupt it, you can kiss anything on your hard drive good-bye basically. You'll have to reformat the whole thing. Thus, they recommend if it's a lappy that you have it plugged in with the battery charged so if you lose electricity, the battery can at least maybe finish the job, lol. Hope that helped! Let me know! Have a great day!

Habib

[dgantony]

I'd like to hear more about Partition Magic... I'm interested in possibly doing a XP Pro / Mandrake installation too.

iNJ,
I have a dual boot with win XP and Mandrake 9.0. I used Partition Magic 8 to create the Linux Partition in XP and installed Mandrake on it. I use the Linux Boot Manager for selecting the OS.

dgantony.

[iNetJunkie]

Cool!

I've done multiple OS's on the same box before, but I haven't used a tool like Partition Magic... sounds pretty slick!

Thanks for the input!
-iNJ

[gardyloo]

I tried Partition Magic 8 (great program in general!) with XP Pro, and apparently it doesn't work w/ the Pro version of XP.... Anyone get it to work? I'd love to dual linux and XP pro, but no luck so far...

[Vortrex]

Partition magic works great for me, i use version 7 and windows xp pro.
I have installed Mandrake Linux 9.0 with no problems. This version of Mandrake has a great installer, and it practically does everything by itself.
I suggest you create 2 new partitions with Partition Magic ( one for swap and the other for the os) and then format them with the proper file systems.

Note: if you want to dual boot, install windowsXP pro first and linux last then you will have the boot manager installed automatically by linux.

[beebster83]

I have winxp pro and I did what I described above with partition magic 8. How exactly did it not work when you tried it? Let us know what happened and maybe we can help ya out :-)

[dgantony]

PM 8 with XP Pro worked for me. What exactly went wrong?

dgantony.

[beebster83]

What's the boot manager from linux? Is it just like that screen that comes up during boot up for windows that shows your OS options and safe mode etc?

[Vortrex]

In my case, (mandrake linux) the bootloader is a blue splash screen with mandrake's logo and several choices to boot from
yeah kind of like the safe mode boot options of windows a bit more "elegant":p

[beebster83]

Ah, oui oui, elegance. :-) I always imagined that XP would take the cake on elegance and linux was the stripped down performance "do anything you want if you know how" kind of deal. I like that :-) lol

[Vortrex]

I have seen linux themes that kill the windowsXP ones. With linux you can customize every single thing about the gui (provided you know how... or you get a theme) as oposed to windows which you can only change minimal features (colors, background...) but the layouts stay the same. Even if you use windowblinds you are limited on what you can change.
Ahhh but there is litestep... which is another story :D

[beebster83]

lol, really? That's sweet to hear. A lot of university campuses and big businesses are switching to linux because of the ease of licensing compared to Microsoft. Quite understandable.

[Eyecannon]

I run Redhat and XP on my Sager 5650.

[beebster83]

I've got Mandrake 9 and I'm going to install XP and mandrake on the 8886 I have. We'll see how it works out, I've never touched linux before so I expect to run into tons of new problems and challenges :-) I can't wait!

[denkc]

Linux is definitely confusing, as the a few of the arguing points against it are...
1) Folder names take some getting used to (usr, bin, lib) ... on mandrake I swear there were 5 bin folders.
2) Installing takes much too long (as there are usually too many CDs or too many things that computer newbies don't know about)
3) Incompatibilites with the large majority of programs
4) Terminal use is confusing for those who have never used one (UNIX Based)

But a few pluses are...
1) All linux software is free
2) WINE (Windows Emulator) runs .exe files
3) Takes less memory than windows
4) You get to join the ever-growing Linux community!

Mandrake (www.mandrake.com), Redhat (www.redhat.com), and Debian (www.debian.org) are probably the most popular, but good luck downloading if you have a slow connection.

I gave it a shot and I found it much too confusing; I prefer the simplicity of Windows. Linux has never crashed on me as my outdated Windows 98 SE has, but the world sadly revolves around Microsoft, with an occasional visit to Apple and Linux.

[skot]

In my opinion the best way to dual boot between linux and windows is to install windows first. use something like partition magic to create a new partition (I use partition magic 8 on XP and it works perfectly) and then restart the computer with the linux disc in the cd-rom and boot from the cd--follow the steps and install linux :). It is much easier to install linux onto an empty partition instead of trying to create the partition during install. I have set up a dual bootin XP/Linux machine many times and have never had any problems dual booting. VMWare is also a good virtual machine program that will allow you to run XP from Linux :) or you could run Linux from Windows.

[Yale2006]

Originally posted by skot
In my opinion the best way to dual boot between linux and windows is to install windows first. use something like partition magic to create a new partition (I use partition magic 8 on XP and it works perfectly) and then restart the computer with the linux disc in the cd-rom and boot from the cd--follow the steps and install linux :). It is much easier to install linux onto an empty partition instead of trying to create the partition during install. I have set up a dual bootin XP/Linux machine many times and have never had any problems dual booting. VMWare is also a good virtual machine program that will allow you to run XP from Linux :) or you could run Linux from Windows.

I think so too. Windows likes to take over the whole boot process, whereas I suppose Linux should not. I guess it varies whatever Linux version it is.

Cheers.

[laclasse]

:mad: I agree that Partition Magic is the most powerful program for resizing and creating partitions of all kinds and sizes. After spending a few days on this forum, it seems that everybody recommend to reinstall XP if it came pre loaded. So where is the need for Partition Magic ? Make a 20 gigs partition on a 40 gig drive in the Windows XP installer and off you go ;)

Linux Bootloader is ...well as usual with linux we have CHOICE, which means ya can try differents programs for it. The most well know is LILO bootloader, but the one growing at the moment is GRUB. I use lilo personnaly. Mandrake uses Grub.

Sorry i don't mean to bring any kind of OpenSource vs Commercial flame wars, but i can be considered as a Unix Guru, having working on it for the last 10 years. For all who haven't installed linux, try it. Hard disk are large nowadays, we all have a 5 gigs somewhere to give it a whirl.

I run exclusively Linux, and Unix related OSes. I only run Windows ( 98, NT4, XP, 2k Adv Server ) in VMware as virtual machines. Overall, with linux, all my machines are responsive, fast, multitasking and preemptive. No more Windows bloated waiting loops, no more reboot, no crashes. I run games, DVD, Burning, Databases, all kind of server services....

The downfall, well, linux isn't easy. If ya have no notions of shell, or Unix previously, it is a VERY STEEP LEARNING CURVE. Takes courage, time, addiction, masochism and LOTS LOTS of READING. As for a lot of things reading is the KEY. I strongly encourage anybody to pass the barrier.

As well remember that when hardware is harder to make it work on Linux, it isn't Linux fault. The situation is getting better and nowadays latest major releases linux distro have VERY performing hardware recognition, but the reason is that Hardware manufacturers are bind to Micro$oft, and do not release internal chips specifics to anybody, forbidden by the commercial contract. Therefore, a linux driver for it, is gonna be the work of 'Reverse Engineering' of thousand of people, online. Example of these companies, the ones who do not release internal specs are Creative or SiS. Anyhow enjoy linux, i will be around to help anybody needing it. :banana: :banana:

By the way, yes MS OSes are totalitarian and monopolistic in their install too, as they like to overwrite the linux Bootloader. The rule of Thumb is to ALWAY install MS first, then linux ;) Damn long post ....:smash:

[skot]

laclasse -
how good is vmware for linux? I've used vmware on XP to install linux and windows server 2000 to mess around with, but I'm thinking about using linux more as a primary to get used to it and to learn it, and use vmware to run XP. When you run Windows from vmware on linux is it pretty much the same as using Windows in its own environment? I know that there is prob a lack of performance since its not using its native resources, but besides that is there anything that can't be done on a XP virtual machine that XP would normally do? As much as I want to spend more time in linux I still rely and am dependent on windows.

[Yale2006]

Originally posted by skot
laclasse -
how good is vmware for linux? I've used vmware on XP to install linux and windows server 2000 to mess around with, but I'm thinking about using linux more as a primary to get used to it and to learn it, and use vmware to run XP. When you run Windows from vmware on linux is it pretty much the same as using Windows in its own environment? I know that there is prob a lack of performance since its not using its native resources, but besides that is there anything that can't be done on a XP virtual machine that XP would normally do? As much as I want to spend more time in linux I still rely and am dependent on windows.

Here's some info that might be useful:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,13787,00.asp

Cheers.

[laclasse]

skot

Honestly i have benchmarked VMware on windows hosts and on linux hosts. It seems that the natural multitasking of linux makes the virtual machine performs much better. Definately i would recommend linux as host OS. FreeBSD and NetBSD works too ;)

[laclasse]

The only thing to realise is that VMware create a generic hardware layer and your virtual machine CANNOT see the real devices. Do not try to install Accelerated grafic drivers under VMware as the program provides a SVGA driver WHICH do not support accelarated graphics. Therefore, sorry NO fast games under VMware. I play under linux thats why it isn't a problem ;)

[Yale2006]

Originally posted by laclasse
The only thing to realise is that VMware create a generic hardware layer and your virtual machine CANNOT see the real devices. Do not try to install Accelerated grafic drivers under VMware as the program provides a SVGA driver WHICH do not support accelarated graphics. Therefore, sorry NO fast games under VMware. I play under linux thats why it isn't a problem ;)

That sucks, though. One of Windows' greatest strengths is all the latest games. If you take that away, you might as well chuck it. Well, I guess Office is also important. What do you use it for?

Cheers.

[skot]

Thanks for the info :)

I really want to give linux a chance and I want it to be the base OS on my machine (because of its strong stability and real multitasking capabilities) but imagining being without windows is a little scary,lol....thats what VMWare is for :)

I reformatted my drive recently so I haven't booted in linux for awhile (and even then I didnt really boot into it that much--Im fairly new to linux and its sometimes a little intimidating,lol) but i'm going to install Redhat 8 again and I want to use KDE 3.1...do you know how to install KDE 3.1 under Redhat 8? I've been looking around and I guess Redhat doesnt have an official RPM for it. What's the best way to do this?

I'm going to start another thread on this topic also.

Thanks in advance :)

[laclasse]

Hope you could read the answer in the new thread you started ;)

[laclasse]

Yale2006,

Mainly for Dreamweaver and for testing IIS services of MS. I am not that creazy to run MS servers online and natively ;)

[Yale2006]

Originally posted by laclasse
Yale2006,

Mainly for Dreamweaver and for testing IIS services of MS. I am not that creazy to run MS servers online and natively ;)

Ah... touché!

Cheers.