safe selling question

[aerfally]

Does anyone know anything about safedeals-escrow.org? Are they safe, and is it even a real company? Please help=)

[Spaxspore]

from experiance.... NEVER EVER USE ESCROWS

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Don't know about this particular company, never heard of them. I did go to their site and it looks relatively legitimate. They seem to have the concept worked out and are saying all the right things. However, two areas of concern:
1) they cite 15 years of experience between 6 individuals, sounds OK until you realize that's only 2.5 years per. Not so amazing. Could also be one person with 10 years and another 5 with 1 year each, also not so amazing. It also depends on what kind of experience. Was it in prison?
2) they do not cite any form of insurance or guaranty covering themselves. Since they are holding both parties assets, its important that they themselves be guaranteed by some form of bond or insurance. I didn't see anything on the site.

As far as escrow goes as a way of doing business, its the only way any serious business is done. Virtually all real estate is transferred via an escrow service, but in my experience, they were all licensed, bonded and had substantial insurance to cover their potential liabilities.

For your specific concerns, what are you buying/selling that would involve an escrow service? If its less than $5K, its probably not worth it or you can get a trusted third party to act as such. Many notaries, accountants, lawyers, etc act as escrow officers. But they will have bonding, licensing and liability insurance for such.

I would inquire with this company as to what licenses they hold with which states, what bonding they have and what other forms of insurance they carry. Ask for the name of the bonding and insurance companies, their addresses, telephone and other contact info, the name of the agent and the policy number and particulars. Same with any licenses. They should be more than willing to share with you the state, the department involved, the name of a representative and so on. Generally, that will be enough to get them to bolt if they aren't legit. If you get any hesitation on this at all, say goodbye and sayonara immediately.

If you are selling something of any significant value, you should draw up a contract of sale. You can find samples by searching for legal forms on the net. There's lots of sources. Or have a lawyer make one up for you. Fill out all the particulars and get it signed and notarized before any assets change hands. Notary doesn't make the contract any more secure but it will ensure all involved that the parties are who they say they are. If they present false identification to the notary, he becomes liable for any resulting damages unless he can prove the falsehood was so good he had no reason for concern. Generally, most states put that threshold up pretty high, just because they don't want to have misrepresentations. Most statements include the terms "personally known to me" so they have a hard time dodging or weaving. Also, in court, it establishes a certain legitmacy for the contract, at least you tried to do the right thing and you got screwed anyway.

Once you have a signed contract of sale, then you can reasonably safely exchange assets. If something does go wrong, you have a legal document to fall back on. Its not a lot, but it is a lot more than nothing.

[karatekid3d]

I just saw a couple days ago on tech tv (my teacher taped it) where some guy bought a porche off ebay and the seller wanted to go through an escrow company. Turns out this extremely professional looking escrow company was set up by the seller, who split with the cash. The site perfectly mimiced another, legit company.

Also escrow companys are ment to make profit right??? I noticed that the site ends in .org which is a non profit if i'm not mistaken.

[aerfally]

Thanks guys. The company has no telephone number I can reach them with, nor am I receiving replies for my e-mails. I have no idea what to do.

[Spaxspore]

dont do it Trust me I almost lost my 5650 because of an escrow service that looked professional....it turned out thhe guy who wanted it got arrested in LA and the site disappreared... it had the usually approved rattings on the bottom.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Check with BBB, Better Business Bureau. Or with your Attorney General's office.

I rechecked the web site I looked at before. You are right, there isn't any phone number. Guess what that says about the company? Just in case this isn't sinking in, aks yourself how many legitimate companies, particularly those involved in financial dealings, don't have a phone number? They do list an address in Bethusda, MD and there is an Arlington Road in Bethusda, but I don't know if there is any 7413 address or what's there.

I can't say for sure this is a scam but there are a number of very loud alarms going off in my head.

I certainly would not deal with them until:
1) they answer your emails with satifsfactory responses,
2) they provide you with a telephone number that works,
3) they provide you with the information that I noted before regarding state licensing, bonding, liability insurance, etc.
4) you have checked with the Maryland BBB and Maryland State AG office and gotten no bad reports (at the same time you might ask the AG's office what the legal requirements are for an escrow service operating in Maryland). Hey, who knows, maybe you'll get a reward for turning these guys in. Well, nice thought anyway. You could also go to the Maryland State Department for Consumers or Consumer Affairs.

Here's the contact info:
State Offices
William Leibovici, Chief
Consumer Protection Division
Office of the Attorney General
200 Saint Paul Place
16th Floor
Baltimore, MD 21202-2021
410-528-8662 (consumer complaint hotline)
410-576-6550 (consumer information)
TDD: 410-576-6372 (Maryland only)
Fax: 410-576-7040
E-mail: consumer@oag.state.md.us
Web site: www.oag.state.md.us/consumer


Charles D Schaub, Manager
Business Licensing & Consumer Service
Motor Vehicle Administration
6601 Ritchie Highway, NE
Glen Burnie, MD 21062
410-768-7248
Fax: 410-768-7602

That should get you going. If these aren't the right places, they should be able to direct you to the ones that are. Get on it Magnum Aerfally, PI.

[aerfally]

Thanks for the support, I'm on my way already.

[surfer]

WARNING, see http://www.carbuyingtips.com/fraud.htm. The title tells it all. Quote: "Suspicious" escrow sites that we are currently watching or shutting down, and you should avoid as of January 19, 2004

These sites that we have found just since November have suspicious activity and we are watching them closely, or have turned them in to the web hosts/registrars for deactivation . If you see a name listed below, it is because we have determined they are fraudulent: safetrading-1st.com, secure-traders.biz, eu-trader.net, iautoescrow.com, ny-escrow.org, eu-trader.com, payourauctions.com, main-escrow.com, wnetescrow.com, future-escrow.com, ww-safetrades.com, safepaying.com, escrowe.com, escrow-st.com, secure-deal.us, tripledeals.net, guardings.com, safe-trader.biz, secureescrow.biz, escrowitalia.com, deltaescrow.com, world-escrow.us, secureescrow.biz, onlinetradesolutions.com, e-safedeal.com, tripledeals.net, onlinesafetrader.com, safe-epay.com, escrow-online.biz, safe-trader.biz, commerce-hub.biz, simple-escrow.com, xpress-transaction.com, escrowe.com, escrowcenter.org, federal-secure.com, east-escrow.org, vehicle-escrow.org, madenat.com, novaescrow.net, moto-exchange.com, on-escrow.com, registeredescrow.com, bids-escrow.com, intelescrow.com, atv-escrow.com, we-escrow.com, nyc-trade.com, masterescrow-ww.com, stransactions.net, novaescrow.net, madenat.com, euro-tradesecure.com, on-escrow.com, atv-escrow.com, prime-escrow.com, trading-safe.com, express-trader.net, escrowst.com, assured-trans.net, safe-ecommerce.us, express-trader.net, escrowsworld.com, g-trader.com, world-escrow.biz, f-escrow.com, ultraescrow.com, express-escrow.com, etradecompanion.com, directransactions.com, tripletrade.net, e-unicom.net, ultra-ts.com, trustedcomp.com, escrowsworld.com, safetradingonline.com, directransactions.com, safe-auction.us, escrowmoto.com, ic-escrow.com, ico-escrow.com (similar to previous name), escrow-expert.com, allianz-escrow.com, securescrow.com, cashbookers.com, bikes-trader.net, registered-escrow.com, europeandeals.com, safest-trader.com, premier-trade.com, t-process.com, esecurepayment.net, internationalbusinessbureauservice.com (what a long stupid name), goldpouch-deals.com (another stupid name), europe-deals.com, escrow-trader.co.uk, escrowbit.com, escrow-it.org, safe4trading.com, safe-online-transactions.com, globe-traders.com, web-escrow-agent.com, escrow-flex.com, light-escrow.com, the-escrow.com, ESCROW-GENERALS.COM, safe-market.com, vehicle-escrow.us, dealssafe.net, uk-escrow-ltd.com, globetraders.net, international-deal.com, Gatepaid.com, stfoundation.com, buynsellonline.net, safe-finance.biz, am-escrow.com, bestransactions.com, senditsafe.com, escrowlite.com, insured-escrow.com, safe-business.net, spanishescrow.com, spanish-escrow.com, internationalescrowtrading.com, securee-comerceservice.us, tradings-us.com, tripletrade.org, securee-comerceservice.us, escrow-yourdeal.com, escrow-international.com, goods-traders.com, trading-net.net, eurowtrad.com, insured-escrow.com, secure-bargain.com, spess.net, for-traders.com, affari-sicuri.com, senditsafe.com, t-escrow.com, word-escrow-trade.com, nyc-traders.com, goldlogix-deals.com, escrowinc.net, main-trade.com, verysafe-trader.com, safetripletrade.com, escrow-yourdeal.com, savetrading.co.uk, products-trade.com, pro-autotrade.com, online-tradings.net, safeonlinedeals.com, make-business.com, esoluk.com, vaultescrow.com, safest-escrow-deal.com, escrow-greatbritain.com, safestdeal.net, ukesol.com (SOL? give me break, who would fall for this one???), autoescrowpay.com, tradenabled.net, vehicleescrow.org, wes.uk.com, insuretransaction.com, tradeguardian.com, money-keeper.net, visio-trade.biz, future-escrow.net, warranty-trades.us, websafetrades.com, escrow.cx, direct-trade.org, escrow-transactions.net, w-trader.com, secureonlinedeal.com, nyc-escrow.com, tradiat-escrow.com, escroww.com, escrow-incorporated.com, fortisescrow.com, escrowsafetrading.com, safeforall-escrow.com, california-escrow.com, inc-escrow.com, escrowtrad.com, europa-escrows.com, bestonline-escrow.com, escrowca.com, bm-escrow.com, traderonlineescrow.com, onlineukescrow.com, escrowukonline.com, nyc-escrow.com, future-escrow.net, escrow-business.org, de-trading.com, snap-trade.com, investments-partner.com, triple-dealer.com, onlinesafedeals.net, dealsolutions.net, secureways.com, safedeals-uk.com, secure.assured-escrow.org, buyonlinesolution.com, safer-business.com, safetripledeal.com, triple-trade.com, triple-trade.org, safe-deal.org, cash-safetrade.com, secure-deals.com, esol-uk.com, future-escrow.com, fortransactions.com, fortransactions.org, warranty-trades.net, europetrades.com. Many other fake escrows are added daily above, check back often.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

My my my, greed is an amazing thing.
Question, how many of these are by the same people?

Or how many are just different names of the same organization (if you can call it that)?

Like I wrote before, any legitimate escrow service will have a state license, bonding and insurance and they will be more than happy to share that information with you. They will have a permanent address and working phone numbers. It would not hurt to ask who they bank with and get the name and phone number of the branch manager or officer they work with.

They should not have any relationship whatsoever with the seller or buyer in the deal, other than for the deal itself. It would also not be a bad idea to ask for references.

But basically, if they don't have a state license, bonding and insurance, they are bogus, totally bogus and bogus without a doubt. You should not send any money to them nor give them any critical identity or financial information. If you want to be a good guy, send their particulars to the State Department in charge of such matters. I suppose you could also inform Surfer as well.

Thanks for the info Surfer, though there's so many names there, it'd be easy to miss one. Its a sad commentary.

[surfer]

Yes, I was also amazed how many fake ecrow-sites there is. After reading the http://www.carbuyingtips.com/fraud.htm I avoided being scammed.

My example: On http://www.carbuyingtips.com/fraud.htm you see screen shots of the 12 most common fake escrow designs (It might not be a bad idea to take a look at these and realize how professional they look!). See the picture on the second row and the second from the left: It is a web-page of a company named http://www.SafeTrading-1st.com/. Only yesterday there were a site http://www.safedeals-uk.com/, which was that same site carbon copied over to a new name. As I did a WHOIS search on the domain name the www.safedeals-uk.com/ at http://www.register.com, I noticed that this "safe and reliable escrow service" was created January 2. 2004... So only about two weeks ago!!

In my case I luckily never transferred the money to the escrow-site.

As a quick memory list, I quote here some key points (in my opinion) from http://www.carbuyingtips.com/fraud.htm (see the whole list there! It's a sad list :-( ) . These got my alarms ringing!

1. Do a Google search on the escrow's web site name. Legit escrows have lots of Google results. Newer fake escrow sites will have zero search results, or maybe one, if you see them listed here. Look for complaints other victims have posted online.

2. Remember that the odds are 9 to 1 against you finding a legitimate online escrow service (Avoid any escrow company that has a dash in the name, like secure-escrow.com. We saw maybe 1 out of 300 sites that were legit.)

3. Assume that just about any escrow service with the word "Safe" or Secure" in their name are neither safe, nor secure.

4. Never ever use the escrow service recommended by the other party, buyer or seller. If a seller ever tells you to use a particular escrow service, be afraid. Be very afraid! All sorts of red flags should go up in your brain.

5. Avoid dealing with an escrow web site that does not have BOTH the address AND the phone number listed. Always call the phone number to talk to a human. If you get a fax or some bogus generic voicemail that says "leave a message", it's fraudulent.

6. Real escrow companies don't tell you to wire payment via Western Union, e-Gold, VUpay, etc. Western Union transfers cash from one WU location to another, not to a real and traceable bank account! DUH! The only time you should be using Western Union is to bail your drunk loser of a brother out of jail.

7. When you log into a fake escrow site, it does not say HTTPS://xxxxx at the start of the URL, and your "SSL secure padlock icon" does not come on at the bottom of your browser. This means the site is not a secure site, they are lying, and it's fake.

8. Go to Register.com and do a "whois" lookup of the escrow company domain name. If the domain name was registered only weeks before, consider them to be fraudulent. They usually lie on their site and claim to be around since 1999 or 2000.

And also some things to remeber when you are buying and selling:

1. Be extremely suspicious about any item that is priced well below similar models for sale, or has free shipping. They use these lower prices to reel you in.

2. The person you are dealing with offers to pay the shipping and insurance. Come on, use your head! When was the last time anyone on eBay offered to pay shipping for you?

3. Do not use a seller's feedback to gauge their honesty! That's the wrong criteria to determine someone’s honesty on eBay.

4. If you get an email "from eBay" where eBay tells you to send money via Western Union, it is a fraud. eBay would never in a million years tell you to use Western Union to pay for auctions, in fact, they warn you against it. eBay also does not warehouse items.


and last but definitely not the least

"Always trust your gut feeling. If you get a bad feeling, trust you instincts, don't do the deal. Others will come along later."