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another building my first comp post

post #1 of 12
8/10/05 at 1:30am
Thread Starter 
Well its the end of summer its time to build my first system.

As a combination high school graduation/leaving for collage (with a decent scholarship) present my parents have agreed to give me ~$1500 for this project (yes, they are awsome). Since I've never done this before I figured I should at least run it by some other people first. This system will be used for primarily gaming but also for torrents and simialr stuff. As I have switched to linux for all but gaming it is also important to me that it run linux well.

components salvaged from existing system:
dvd/cd burner combo drive
3 ata hard drives (already full)
tv tuner
monitor/speakers/keyboard/etc.

motherboard: ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131540

processor: AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 1GHz FSB 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103529

memory: OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Platinum System Memory – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227210

video card: Leadtek PX6800GT TDH Geforce 6800GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814122209

new hard drives (2x the same): Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA II Hard Drive – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822144701

power supply: Thermaltake Silent Purepower W0014RU ATX 480W Power Supply 100 - 240V – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153007

case:Antec Performance I P180 Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129154

total cost $1581.93 not counting any rebates/discounts or shipping (This will qualify as close enough i believe.)

questions:
1.Well the first question seems obvious. Are these all compatible?

2.Did I forget anything or do I need anything else? specifically: I'm not sure whats included with the processor, do I need to buy a thermal compound separately and are the stock fans sufficient for cooling? Is a floppy drive necessary?

3.Is the power supply sufficient for all of the components even if I add a second video card for the sli later?

4.Whats with the FSB on the processor, it was originally listed as “integrated into chip” but the product description changed. Descriptions of the processor on review sites say that all athlon64 have integrated memory controllers making the FSB minor or irrelevant. Therefore this is particularly confusing.

5.In one section the case says “the 4x HDD area” yet it clearly lists”Internal 3.5" Drive Bays: 6.” This just means there separated into two groups correct?

6.The processor is lower then the other posts with similar topics. However, even increasing it to 4200+ would mean losing a gig of ram and possibly a hard drive. Is this one reasonable?

7.Is it worthwhile to put the two hard drives in raid or should I just use them separately?

8.Are any of these parts of low quality or can any one recommend improvements?
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post #2 of 12
8/10/05 at 12:33pm
1. They should be compatible
2. Do you need a keyboard/mouse/speakers?
3. The power should be sufficient, although I don't recommend SLI, since you can sell the 6800GT and get a 7800GT or something later for less money and more performance than 2x6800GTs.
4. the FSB is irrelevant because there is no such thing on Athlon 64s
5. I'm thinking 4 of those internal drive bays are for HDDs, while the other two are for floppy/zip/media card readers.
6. The processor will be fine. Isn't the 4200+ a dual core?
7. RAID will either improve performance while decreasing reliability(slightly), or increase reliability(and reduce storage). Depending on your needs, you can use RAID or not.
8. Everything looks fine in terms of brand name and quality.
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post #3 of 12
8/10/05 at 1:09pm
Thread Starter 
thanks for the reply

I got the mouse/keyboard/monitor/etc. from my currents system. Unless I need a floppy drive or better fans everything seems like its there.

I'm still curious as to why newegg changed the description from saying "integrated into chip" to 1 ghz. I guess it just not worth worrying about?

I thought thats what it ment too but it also lists "External 3.5" Drive Bays 1" seperately.

The processor comparison was not with a dual core it was just ~150 more for a small increase. I"m unsure as to how much performance that change would equate to. I assume it would not be worth the sacrifce it would require in ram/hdd.
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post #4 of 12
8/10/05 at 6:57pm
1GHz is the HT bus. The A64 doesn't really use an FSB so to speak. That is why it was showing as "integrated into chip". To clear confusion, some people call the HTT on the A64 the FSB. In short, yeah it's not worth worrying about.

The 4200 is a dual core, that's why it is $100 more. Unless you will be doing some heavy multiprocessing (encoding for hours at a time while doing other work/gaming), the 4200 (or any dual core) would be a waste for you. As a matter of fact, for the cost difference (another $100), you might want to consider dropping to the 3700+ San Diego. The only difference between the two is 200MHz, which you will never notice. A few seconds on encoding or a couple frames per second.
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post #5 of 12
8/12/05 at 2:14am
If you're new to building, or just lazy, google monarch computers and check out some of their deals. I got a post on this same subject around here somewhere, but basicly Monarch rocks because they'll throw together your processor, mobo, fan, and flash in the latest BIOS and all that, then ship it to you for roughly newegg prices. Also, a lot of their combos get a copy of half life 2 and some other free software thrown in (the good kind, not bloatware, and not pre-installed. I think Napster and Halo 2 are the other software atm, but I'm limited on time here to surf for ya). I think they'll add ram and all that stuff, but all I was really worried about was the more sensitive components of my computer and BIOS and all that good stuff. They made it pretty easy for a very reasonable price, and will even warranty their work for ya if you want to snag a 1-2 year warranty on the big stuff.

my $.02
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post #6 of 12
8/12/05 at 2:21am
One more thing, if you already have drives still in good shape, why buy slower spinning large drives? I see you feel the need for an additional 2 250gb drives spinning at 7200rpm?

Snag a raptor, spins at 10k and holds 74gb. Run your operating system and data you use a lot on it, then use your older drives in raid for backup and data storage (music collection, porn, w/e you got on there you need 500gb for anyway ) Even if your old drives may bite it soon, you may end up with more performance/dollar to snag one raptor and one slower drive for storage, though I haven't done much research on it.

The increased spindle speed really helps with downloading, installing, and running applications you use often.
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post #7 of 12
8/13/05 at 6:46pm
Instead of that 6800GT get a 7800GT from Dell for $331. Also get an OCZ Powerstream 520W powersupply.
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post #8 of 12
8/14/05 at 11:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x1c4nj3w
Instead of that 6800GT get a 7800GT.
Since the 7800GT cards recently came out on newegg, I am revising my choices (there is no way I would ever buy from dell, they are on my blacklist of retailers). The difference in upgrading the graphics card went from 180+ to only about 90ish. However my previous layout was already at the upper end of my budget. This leaves the following options if I want a 7800GT instead of a 6800GT:
1. change to a cheaper variety of ram (probably wont work budget wise)
2.drop the processor for a cheaper one (probably wont work budget wise)
more realistic choices:
3. both of above
4. drop to 1gig of ram

I am unsure if any of these would make the change a net positive.

Would making these changes make the change worth while?
If only one of the choices 1 and 2 is required, which has less effect?
The cheaper processor has only ½ of the cache, how much does this effect performance?


the new parts I'm considering
1. any 7800GT, I cant pick till I see some product ratings, priced 400-430 for a cheap one.
cheapest one on newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150108

2. cheaper ram (maybe 2x): CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) System Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145505

3. cheaper proc: AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 1GHz FSB 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103531

[edit] not to ignore the raptor/psu sugestions but I do need to hard drive space and i'm trying to cut the cost some now
[edit 2]Since I am not sure what is needed for a power supply (I chose the one above by locking at what wattage others were using and looking through the ratings on newegg), if I dropped it to a lower wattage (400-420ish) I can make up some of the difference there. This would still be sufficient and have none/negligible effect on performance correct?
[edit 3] edited for clarity
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post #9 of 12
8/15/05 at 2:27am
Instead of the 3800+ Venice, get a 3700+ San Diego instead. better performance due to the 1MB L2 cache.
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post #10 of 12
8/15/05 at 2:42am
a good 400watt power supply should be good for most setups, however the thing you gotta look out for is that many manufactors will massively over-rate their power supply so that a 400watt power supply only spits out like half of that amount of power. brands like thermaltake, ocz, and antec are a few you should more or less be able to trust.
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post #11 of 12
8/15/05 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
I believe I have come to a final set of specs. Since the cheaper processor noted above is out of stock (the 3700+ San Diego) and I don't feel like spreading the order around, I've dropped down the ram. When I looked through the manufactures specs for the 7800GT's they said they require 350 watt 12V/20A for single and 500 watt 12V/26A for sli (provided I read the stats right). The cheapest one I could find with at least enough for sli and good reviews I went with.

non changed parts:

motherboard: ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131540

processor: AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 1GHz FSB 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103529

new hard drives (2x the same): Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA II Hard Drive – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822144701

case:Antec Performance I P180 Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129154


changed parts:

memory (2x): CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) System Memory – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145505

video card: XFX PVT70GUDF7 Geforce 7800GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 Video Card – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150108

power: ASPIRE ATX-AS520W BLACK ATX 520W Power Supply 115/230 V CB IEC 950/ TUV EN 60950/ UL 1950/ CSA 950 – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817148008


So does everything still look reasonable?
The comments for the powersupply said it did not have a PCI-E power connecter but and adaptor fixes it. The video card doesnt list one in its description. However it appear there is an adaptor in the pictures of the cables (from the video card) correct?
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post #12 of 12
8/15/05 at 6:51pm
http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=100508

read that thread about that particular powersupply. PSU is not something i would cut corners on, as one poewr surge can take out the entire rig.
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