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Spoiled by Powerbook

post #1 of 37
8/14/05 at 8:57am
Thread Starter 
So having owned my 15" Powerbook for about 3 months now, I find it extremely hard to purchase a PC laptop because of the poor design/build quality of most.

I have been looking at a second machine to run the things that I cannot run on my Mac, like Houdini. As I played with various plastic PC's I realize what a tremendous lack of design and simple "ATTENTION TO DETAIL" there is on almost all PC notebooks. The majority are constructed of cheap plastic with that plastic body flex and plastic clicking sounds. Many have the gaudy green or orange indicator lights which reminds me of low-end 80's style boombox stereos with overplayed equalizers. When I flip to the bottom of any PC notebook, the lack of craftsmanship is even more evident. You see a mess of plastic doors, awkwardly situated vents and fans, protruding support feet and uneven sections????

I have owned a Compaq notebook before I got this Apple and I had issues with the cheap feel of that machine. As well as the crashes and freeze ups. Even Sony, who I consider to have better design then most, still suffers from a cheap plastic quality. IBM, Toshiba, HP, Dell, Gateway can learn something from Apple. A little thought and effort can go a long way to producing a better product. But I guess it's more about the bottom dollar to most. Personally, I think mass producing cheaper units for less cost to the consumer works well with inexpensive items you find at Walmart, but when it comes to 2G's on a mobile professional system, I don't want mass produced cheap units. I'll pay a little more to get that extra bit of thought at the design stage.

I guess I shop for laptops like many people shop for cars. Design and quality matter as much as preformance and reliablity. Maybe it's the artist in me, which demands better. But when I am shelling out $2000, I would like that product to feels like it costs $2000.

I do have my eye on the Asus models. Namely the W3v and the W2. No surprise that these machine have a richer look and quality since they do or did build Apples.

Anyone feel the same? Any PC suggestions for me to look at? Any differing opinions?
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post #2 of 37
8/14/05 at 9:12am
You posted this twice in the Apple section and once in Notebook General....

If you're looking for a professional minimalistic look that mimics the aesthetics of the Apple Powerbook then the Asus W1, W2, and W3v are definitely the ways to go.
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post #3 of 37
8/14/05 at 10:08am
W3 I've heard gets pretty hot.

The W2? It looks like the 17" pb with windows! lol
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post #4 of 37
8/14/05 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpu
So having owned my 15" Powerbook for about 3 months now, I find it extremely hard to purchase a PC laptop because of the poor design/build quality of most.

I have been looking at a second machine to run the things that I cannot run on my Mac, like Houdini. As I played with various plastic PC's I realize what a tremendous lack of design and simple "ATTENTION TO DETAIL" there is on almost all PC notebooks. The majority are constructed of cheap plastic with that plastic body flex and plastic clicking sounds. Many have the gaudy green or orange indicator lights which reminds me of low-end 80's style boombox stereos with overplayed equalizers. When I flip to the bottom of any PC notebook, the lack of craftsmanship is even more evident. You see a mess of plastic doors, awkwardly situated vents and fans, protruding support feet and uneven sections????

I owned a Compaq notebook before I got this Apple and I had issues with the cheap feel of that machine. As well as the crashes and freeze ups. Even Sony, who I consider to have better design then most, still suffers from a cheap plastic quality. IBM, Toshiba, HP, Dell, Gateway can learn something from Apple. A little thought and effort can go a long way to producing a better product. But I guess it's more about the bottom dollar to most. Personally, I think mass producing cheaper units for less cost to the consumer works well with inexpensive items you find at Walmart, but when it comes to 2G's on a mobile professional system, I don't want mass produced cheap units. I'll pay a little more to get that extra bit of thought at the design stage.

I guess I shop for laptops like many people shop for cars. Design and quality matter as much as preformance and reliablity. Maybe it's the artist in me, which demands better. But when I am shelling out $2000, I would like that product to feels like it costs $2000.

I do have my eye on the Asus models. Namely the W3v and the W2. No surprise that these machine have a richer look and quality since they do or did build Apples.

Anyone feel the same? Any PC suggestions for me to look at? Any differing opinions?
yOUR RIGHT, the only company whcih is asus has a better design than apple and cost very similar. But it runs windows. IM still debating btw the w2V or the powerbook g4 17inch. Its just that apple has to shape up improve gpu speed and screen res. I think they will in there next rev but i just cant wait that long. Also something apple has that asus doesnt is that apples designs are always thinner asus is about 1.1 inches while the pb is 1inchbut i gues the extra .1-.2 in the asus is due to the extra heat of the gpu. Ill most likely switch back to apple in about 2-3 years when they switched to intel. PPc is just too slow and hot for apples taste.
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post #5 of 37
8/14/05 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestateimin
You posted this twice in the Apple section and once in Notebook General....

If you're looking for a professional minimalistic look that mimics the aesthetics of the Apple Powerbook then the Asus W1, W2, and W3v are definitely the ways to go.
Yeah, my first submit was hanging for a while so I tried it again in the other section. But I guess both went through. I modified the one in the notebook section so it wasn't a repeat.

The problem with the Asus, I've noticed, is that they are still not as clean and polished as the Apples. I've seen the images of the W1, W2 and W3v, while the Powerbooks are thoroughly encased with a clean aluminum shell which gives it a complete look. The Asus have a mixture of metal lid and plastic bottoms? This begs the question...why not make it all in one material for a more polished look? Heat issues...maybe? Manufacturing costs? The other thing with Asus is, that I would like to have a local retailer (COMPUSA, BESTBUY, CIRCUIT CITY) carry them so that I can tinker with it and really get my hands on one to check it out. Or at least find a friend who has one so I can play with it. Asus is too new and too obsure right now.

It's gonna be tough? I can't see myself spending so much money on a "Brand-X" machine constructed of cheap plastic and designed like a "Pontiac Aztec" (No offense to anyone who owns that vehicle.) Unless PC's end up reducing the price on professional machine so that they are truly disposable products. If cheap price tag = cheap quality and poor design, then sure, I'll have no problem purchasing one. But I won't have that same feeling I get when I open up my sexy Powerbook with it's keyboard illuminating and the touch of the clean, uninterrupted lines and firm polished shell.

Maybe I'll wait for the Intel Apples as well? I blame Apple for making too pretty a machine.
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post #6 of 37
8/14/05 at 2:28pm
What exactly are you going to do with your PC notebook? You mentioned running programs that aren't available on the Mac. I'll assume you've looked into VirtualPC and found that it won't cut it - you're not the only one!

Do you need it to be a laptop? You can get a very powerful Windows desktop for a lot less than a laptop and if you are only going to be using it for a small amount of your work then that's probably the best way to go.

If it needs to be portable, does it need to be high end? What about the cheapest laptop they're selling this week, if it only costs $700, will you really care if it's a bit ugly?

I love my iBook, I can't wait for Intel iBooks so I can replace both my G3/500 iBook and my Toshiba.
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post #7 of 37
8/14/05 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idevin
What exactly are you going to do with your PC notebook? You mentioned running programs that aren't available on the Mac. I'll assume you've looked into VirtualPC and found that it won't cut it - you're not the only one!

Do you need it to be a laptop? You can get a very powerful Windows desktop for a lot less than a laptop and if you are only going to be using it for a small amount of your work then that's probably the best way to go.

If it needs to be portable, does it need to be high end? What about the cheapest laptop they're selling this week, if it only costs $700, will you really care if it's a bit ugly?

I love my iBook, I can't wait for Intel iBooks so I can replace both my G3/500 iBook and my Toshiba.

I'm actually selling my Sony Tablet desktop system so that I can get this next PC laptop. My experience has taught me that I am much more productive if I have a mobile system. It's obvious to me that when I have my machine constantly with me, I simply get more work done.

Cheap laptops are not gonna cut it. I need a more powerful machine because I will be running highend 3D software like Maya and Houdini. I will not be doing the actual full production and rendering on my laptops but instead working on development type work, including layout, previsualization, simple modeling, 3D designs, choreography, animation roughs, storyboard development, 2D concept art, editing, and sound design. Think of what I am doing as film based 3D previsualization, where I am developing a complete animatic which will be packaged and ready for full production at a highend facility with highend resources to hopefully complete it.

If I go desktop, I tend to go big and that would sometimes cost more then a laptop. And it would also see less production time because I would not have it with me for half the day. I've gone down that road before and spent too much money for not enough work.

And $700 for a cheap plastic machine is still $700. I believe that you get what you pay for. And the way computer companies categorize their systems usually results in very expensive highend systems and usually really striped down budget machines.

Ugly design is one thing, but build quality is the other big thing. My experience with the big PC makers have taught me about how it's more about the cheapest components "Frankensteined" together to give the consumer a less expensive product. And a lesser overall product. Ofcourse I can always build my own system, but I'm more the racecar driver then the racecar builder.
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post #8 of 37
8/14/05 at 3:28pm
In that case, your best bet is going to be a very high end system like a Toshiba Qosmio or a VoodooPC laptop. Macs are great, but you just can't expect the same design and quality when you need a PC.

Sounds like you should be waiting for an Intel Powerbook that you can dual-boot XP and OS-X on. Unfortunately there really is no ideal solution for someone in your situation. Nobody makes PCs like Apple makes Macs. That's why you bought a Powerbook in the first place.
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post #9 of 37
8/16/05 at 10:32pm
Thread Starter 
I accidently duplicated this post on the "General Notebook Discussion" section of this site, then I tried to delete it, but was only able to modify it. And man....I sparked some emotions from some PC lovers. Check it out.

http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=101627

I see where my words can be insulting....but then I think about it and realize that we are talking about computers. But, I guess I should have expected this from a site dedicated to notebooks.

What if I started a post about people's mommas? I wonder how well that would go? Is there a "your_momma_is_forum" out there?
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post #10 of 37
8/19/05 at 4:42pm
I don't own an apple notebook, but I do service notebooks for a living.. I can see why some Apple owners like them as much as they do, but I wouldnt call them "high quality" by any stretch of the imagination. Are they built better than retail-grade PC notebooks? For the most part I'd have to say so. But thats not saying much. Retail-store grade notebooks are for the most part, crap in a box.

I hope the other PC vendors do NOT follow Apple's "everything takes a backseat to the way it looks" approach to design. I want a machine thats well constructed, looks nice, and is easy to service. Right now, Apple only does one of those to my satisfaction. If Apple took the same care in the rest of the design process as they did when designing exteriors, they'd be an order of magnitude or more better than they are now. Apple doesn't have to make it technician-hostile to make it user-friendly. It makes no difference at all how good or bad your operating system is if your hardware doesn't measure up, And right now, it doesn't, nor do I honestly expect it to when they switch to x86, either. I could list lots of things that I think need to change with PowerBook/iBook deisgn (and will, if there's an interest, I suppose), but that would be for another thread, as this is about something else altogether.

If you want a nice PC, you have to step up to business-grade gear, and at that level, Apple has no competing products of any kind. As far as suggestions, here's a few:
  • IBM/Lenovo T4x series, X3x series, or X4x series
  • HP nc82xx/nw82xx series, nc62xx series
  • Toshiba Tecra M series
  • Dell Latitude/Precision Mobile Workstation series
  • Panasonic Toughbook series
  • Fujitsu P series

Thats by no means an exhaustive list mind you, but its somplace to start, at any rate. You're not likely to find any of them at the local WorstBuy or CompUSSR, however. But it will get you 3 year warranty coverage by default on most of 'em (unless you do something stupid like deliberately configure it with 1 year) instead of the 1 year you typically get on retail models. They'll also be built better as well, both in terms of build quality and materials than their retail cousins.
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post #11 of 37
8/19/05 at 11:23pm
ive seen a toughbook at a best buy.....but it wasnt for sale
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post #12 of 37
9/18/05 at 4:17pm
I suppose an understanding of build quality determines whether you're spoiled or just misinformed. While the powerbooks are very nice looking and have the look and feel of a quality product, their durability is average.
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post #13 of 37
9/18/05 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpu
So having owned my 15" Powerbook for about 3 months now, I find it extremely hard to purchase a PC laptop because of the poor design/build quality of most.

I have been looking at a second machine to run the things that I cannot run on my Mac, like Houdini. As I played with various plastic PC's I realize what a tremendous lack of design and simple "ATTENTION TO DETAIL" there is on almost all PC notebooks. The majority are constructed of cheap plastic with that plastic body flex and plastic clicking sounds. Many have the gaudy green or orange indicator lights which reminds me of low-end 80's style boombox stereos with overplayed equalizers. When I flip to the bottom of any PC notebook, the lack of craftsmanship is even more evident. You see a mess of plastic doors, awkwardly situated vents and fans, protruding support feet and uneven sections????

I owned a Compaq notebook before I got this Apple and I had issues with the cheap feel of that machine. As well as the crashes and freeze ups. Even Sony, who I consider to have better design then most, still suffers from a cheap plastic quality. IBM, Toshiba, HP, Dell, Gateway can learn something from Apple. A little thought and effort can go a long way to producing a better product. But I guess it's more about the bottom dollar to most. Personally, I think mass producing cheaper units for less cost to the consumer works well with inexpensive items you find at Walmart, but when it comes to 2G's on a mobile professional system, I don't want mass produced cheap units. I'll pay a little more to get that extra bit of thought at the design stage.

I guess I shop for laptops like many people shop for cars. Design and quality matter as much as preformance and reliablity. Maybe it's the artist in me, which demands better. But when I am shelling out $2000, I would like that product to feels like it costs $2000.

I do have my eye on the Asus models. Namely the W3v and the W2. No surprise that these machine have a richer look and quality since they do or did build Apples.

Anyone feel the same? Any PC suggestions for me to look at? Any differing opinions?
Agree in 100% I'm waiting till 20th to see if apple will realase the new PB if not i'm buying the older model anyway!!!! I've visited Bestbuy and circuitcity today and more i see the pc laptops the more i'm on apple side!!! :P The only pc laptop i've enjoyed was the new qosmio g25!!! WOW nice machine but $3000 price and super huge and heavy and super low battery life I have just converted into a MAC fan!!!!
Marek
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post #14 of 37
9/18/05 at 7:14pm
The Asus and Acer Ferrari 4005 are the coolest PC laptops IMO.
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post #15 of 37
9/19/05 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman
The Asus and Acer Ferrari 4005 are the coolest PC laptops IMO.
the acer folio designs look nice, but i was very surprised and disappointed to actually get one in hand and feel how flexible the chassis is. if the ferrari is cut from the same mold and uses the same grade of plastic, it'd be a shame on an otherwise sharp looking notebook, not to mention the price bracket it's in.
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post #16 of 37
9/20/05 at 3:27pm
I own a W3V and while I love it, it doesn't quite measure up to a Powerbook in terms of beautiful design.

I have to question Asus's choice of materials. Why use beautiful metal for the lid, and plastic for the rest of the case?

Having said that, the W3V does get solid marks from me as far as its solid feel is concerned. No creaks; you can pick up the entire laptop by a corner and there's no sound.

A few other touches are lacking. While in standby mode, the laptop flashes a bright blue LED on and off. This is very annoying, especially at night. Blue LEDs are bright enough to light up an entire room when everything else is dark! Contrast this approach with Apple's gently pulsating Apple logos. Is this a big deal? No, but it's part of the overall feel.

The default software configuration of the W3V is a bit lacking. It runs quite hot by default and while this is easily remedied by installing Centrino Hardware Control, why didn't ASUS include a better solution by default?

It's amazing how cool and quiet the W3V can be; too bad 98% of users will never know this because they stick with the default settings and software.
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post #17 of 37
9/21/05 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Booty
I own a W3V and while I love it, it doesn't quite measure up to a Powerbook in terms of beautiful design.

I have to question Asus's choice of materials. Why use beautiful metal for the lid, and plastic for the rest of the case?
Actually, it's not plastic. I don't remember exactly what is used, but it seems much sturdier than the regular plastic used in most laptops. If you scratch the material in a non painted area (like the inside of the HDD enclosure cover) you'll see that the material gets shiny/reflective like metal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Booty
A few other touches are lacking. While in standby mode, the laptop flashes a bright blue LED on and off. This is very annoying, especially at night. Blue LEDs are bright enough to light up an entire room when everything else is dark! Contrast this approach with Apple's gently pulsating Apple logos. Is this a big deal? No, but it's part of the overall feel.
Agreed. The blue LED looks nice, but can be a bit distracting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Booty
The default software configuration of the W3V is a bit lacking. It runs quite hot by default and while this is easily remedied by installing Centrino Hardware Control, why didn't ASUS include a better solution by default?

It's amazing how cool and quiet the W3V can be; too bad 98% of users will never know this because they stick with the default settings and software.
Yeah, this laptop really cools down when you've used CHC or RMClock to lower the CPU voltage. CPU/GPU heat is not an issue at all now, while it could be a slight issue before. The other heat related problem with this laptop is the HDD. I have not had any problems with heating of the right arm rest as some people have reported. I have, however, noticed that the HDD enclosure cover gets quite hot. This is only really noticeable if you keep the computer in your lap for a while, though.

I might also add that part of this HDD heat issue was resolved by changing the drive. The factory installed drive in my lappy was an IBM/Hitachi Travelstar 60GB 4200RPM. I threw that drive out and installed a WD Scorpio 80GB 5400RPM instead and, strange as it might sound, ever since the laptop has been cooler (and much faster!). Reported temp for this drive is 36-40C and the enclosure cover feels cooler.
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post #18 of 37
9/24/05 at 6:08pm
i love my powerbook when people see it they saw that is the laptop they want one day
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post #19 of 37
9/27/05 at 7:45pm
Not sure if most of you realise. But ASUS make the apple notebooks. Hence the similarities between the W and V series compared the Powerbook range. I myself have chosen the Powerbook over the V6 because of Mac OS.

The specs are nearly identical, only real different being pentium M vs PPC (2mb cache vs 512, 533 fsb vs 333 etc)

The weight is the same, thickness and dimensions the same, even down to materials. V6 has a 1400x1050 screen whereas the apple has 1280x757 or something. Doesn't really matter all that much, as I said, im buying the apple for OSX.

Which is why apple makes the margins they do. Its not really cause of the hardware, its second rate compared the what available nowadays. Its for aesthetics, build quality and service/support and of course OSX Tiger :P

Like GM sells finance, not cars. Apple sells software, not hardware Or rather think of it as Apple selling a solution to Microsoft's shortcomings.
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post #20 of 37
10/1/05 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
OK, please name some laptops that are more durable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emorphien
I suppose an understanding of build quality determines whether you're spoiled or just misinformed. While the powerbooks are very nice looking and have the look and feel of a quality product, their durability is average.
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