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Turion vs. M

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I am going to buy a laptop in the upcoming weeks, as I want it before I go back to college. I am an electrical engineering major and want a laptop that is going to be able to handle games, but also modeling programs or any science applications that I might want to run on it. It seems silly not to get a 64 bit processor as in a few years, I would assume more and more games/apps/OS's will take advantage of this. I cant seem to find a decent review on this processor, so does anyone know where one exists?
In terms of GPU it seems that Nvidia has ATI pretty well trumped, so I figure Ill stick with nvidia.

Does anyone know when the new soundblaster x-fi card will come out for laptops? That thing is quite the machine.
post #2 of 20
Do you want a lapto por a DTR? If you want a DTR than get one with the nVidia 6800 GPU with a Turion. If you want something that's portable and staill have decent batterylife than get a Acer Ferrari 4005 with X700.
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Im not necessarily saying that I want a Turion, I more just want some place that has reviewed it, with benchmarks and relevent information. Are you saying though that by using a nvidia gpu my battery life will be lowered?
post #4 of 20
Well the Go6800 and x800 GPU uses about 35% more power than the Go6600 and X700 GPUs with the X700 being faster of the two. SO a Laptop with a Go6800 will generall be bigger and heavier because of larger battery, more cooling stuff or with a very short batterylife. The Best combo for the Pentium M w/Go6800 is probably the Dell XPS2 while the best combo of a Turion and X700 is probably the Ferrari at the moment.
post #5 of 20
Find out if the modeling programs you use are available in 64bit versions. (Usually engineering programs are)

That's about the only reason to get a Turion right now (you have more choice in Pentium M systems in terms of weight and size, and they're also superior in battery life). In a few years, when the software and hardware will have matured enough to really warrant the purchase of a 64bit machine, you'll be on your way to buying a brand new system.

With regards to the GPUs, the X700 is comparable to the Geforce6600 if not a bit faster. Going a step higher to the Geforce6800 will severely limit your choices (I don't think a Turion + Geforce6800 combination exists yet) Unless you depend on graphical performance in Linux, an nVidia counterpart really has no technical advantage.

As for the SB card, it would be a nice luxury upgrade for a Turion system, especially for gaming. I would not recommend spending money for it on an Intel system, however, as the newer motherboards are already HD Audio compliant with Azalia.
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
Well how does Turion compare to Pentium M in 32 bit apps, say games and such? And the SB card is really quite a thing, I havent heard of it being announced for laptops yet, but I will be one of the first to purchase it when it does.
post #7 of 20
The pentium m should compare well with the turion, if not better in most 32bit apps. Gaming usually favors the pentium m. Don't limit yourself to 64bit cpus since this is a laptop and something meant to be portable. If youre wanting a desktop then by all means go 64bit.

http://www.soundblaster.com/products...&product=10769

It goes into your pc card slot, if thats what you're looking for. No internal SB card.

I wouldn't say nVidia has ati trumped in notebook GPUs yet, but I believe in the coming months ati will get their asses handed to them in the mobile market as they are right now in desktop.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hm Good points. I guess Turion might not be the way to go for now. The SB card I am talking about is the http://www.soundblaster.com/products...&product=14066
post #9 of 20
lol, no way are you going to find that in a notebook anytime soon!
post #10 of 20
High-powered GPUs consume more energy than low-powered or integrated GPUs, regardless of the make of the GPU. Wiz33 meant that desktop replacements get poor battery life. DTRs are also the most likely laptops to have the most powerful graphics cards such as 6800/6800ultra/x800. If you go just one level down in graphics performance (from the 6800/x800 to 6600/x700) you still get great performance, but the size/weight/battery life of the computers with the 2nd level graphics are greatly improved.

If you want a good combo of battery life, portability 64bit processor and good graphics, the Acer Ferrari is your best bet. You can find reviews of the Ferrari in the review section at

http://www.notebookforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=137

If you just want to know about turions in general, then you can find out info on them at many other places. Here's what I know off the top of my head: Turions are 64 bit, and they are much more laptop-friendly than the Athlon64 series, meaning they are in lighter/smaller laptops with better battery life. However, compared to the Pentium M, 64-bit processing is the only advantage Turions have. The PM is in many more systems, giving you a greater choice of graphics, size, weight, etc. The Turion platform is not as efficient as the PM platforms (being the 915 and 855 platforms), and as such, they get about an hour less battery life than a comparable PM. The Turions also benchmark below the PMs, except that difference is unnoticeable in practical applications. I, personally, prefer the PM, as by the time I need 64 bit (I dont do scientific stuff like you, so you may need it a bit earlier), I will get a 64 bit computer based on Merom or some similar future processors.

I dont really know the full story behind the above comparisons I've made, so I suggest that you google for 'turion benchmarks' or 'turion reviews' to find a benchmark comparison with better info.
post #11 of 20
also, check out the X64-9700 on cyberpowersystem.com, its got a top turion and X700 with 128 MB VRAM, which is all the ram youll need to play todays games, only farcry can take advantage of more VRAM than that.
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz33
Well the Go6800 and x800 GPU uses about 35% more power than the Go6600 and X700 GPUs with the X700 being faster of the two. SO a Laptop with a Go6800 will generall be bigger and heavier because of larger battery, more cooling stuff or with a very short batterylife. The Best combo for the Pentium M w/Go6800 is probably the Dell XPS2 while the best combo of a Turion and X700 is probably the Ferrari at the moment.
For battery life and price, the i9300 is better than the XPS2. The XPS2 has the 6800 Go Ultra, which is a much higher clocked version of the 6800 Go, so it only gets 2 hours of battery life, or so I've heard. If you get the same 9-cell battery that the XPS2 has, then the i9300 can last for 3h to 3h15min with the 6800 Go. I think the i9300 is one of the best gaming notebook deals on the market, by far. Either in Canada or the US.

Btw, you get a 17" screen with either the i9300 or XPS2.
post #13 of 20
Yeah, the Pentium M is probably somewhat similar to the Turion, since the Pentium M is pretty similar in performance to the Athlon 64 (Athlon 64 seems to still be faster on average, though), which is what the Turion basically is, right (i.e. a 90nm slightly modified? Athlon 64)?
post #14 of 20
On the Acer US site the 4000 has an x700 with 128Mb.

http://us.acer.com/acerpanam/page9.d...crc=1062168153
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronobuster
The Turion platform is not as efficient as the PM platforms (being the 915 and 855 platforms), and as such, they get about an hour less battery life than a comparable PM. The Turions also benchmark below the PMs, except that difference is unnoticeable in practical applications.
Just to correct you, the power consumption is not accurate. The Turion comes in two flavors: The MT and the ML. The ML uses 35W, and is the more power hungry of the two; if you get the Ferrari, you will be getting the ML. To put it in perspective, the Pentium-M uses 27W. Either way, the Ferrari delivers about 3+ hours of battery life performance--about the same of a similarly equipped Z71V. On the other hand, the MT line uses 25W of power, 2 less than the Pentium-M; before today, the fastest MT processor was a 1.8ghz--not very comparable to Pentium-M's top of the line processors. HOWEVER, AMD announced the MT-37 (2.0ghz) and MT-40 (2.2ghz) processors. Not only are they half the price of their equivalent Pentium-Ms, but if an ML uses the same battery life in equivalent P-M notebooks, the MT processors should easily push those battery life marks up into the 4 hour range.

Sorry if that's a little too much information! Its too little to split apart, so I decided to clump it all together! All I can say is, the Pentium-M has a serious competitor on its hands.

As for the benchmarks, I go by what I've read in reviews and, largely what I've read on GamePC's benchmarks of the two systems. Let me forewarn you by saying that most users don't trust them, but let me also say that they have yet to point out even a single reason as to why their benchmarking procedures are flawed. Additionally, common sense dictates why each processor would be better in each field, which the benchmarks support.

So based on these benchmarks, the 64-bit processor does extremely well in workstation performance such as rendering, CAD, and video encoding. The Turion has shown much faster performance in memory processing, so things that require a lot of memory (like the tasks I mentioned above) will excel. In addition to the fact that the 64-bit processors can hold more than 4gb of RAM (obviously, not a strong point for a laptop), the Turion also features SSE3 instructions over the SSE2 from the Pentium-M--a benefit which will only aid programs that actively take advantage of the additional lines.

With that being said, now for some reasons for the Pentium-M! For one, the battery life is technically going to be faster--the Ferrari, a popular Turion/gaming machine has an 8-cell battery, which is why it's able to match the battery life of an equivalent 6-cell Pentium-M machine. In games, the Pentium-M definitely shows an aptitude for continual mathematical operations--in other words, long chains. This, plus the larger, 2mb cache, will make the Pentium-M a much more viable choice if you plan on gaming a lot.

Now that all that's down, keep in mind one thing: the differences between the two are very, very small. If you were to use two laptops with identical speeds, the difference would only be noticable if you got down and dirty with benchmarks. However, since you do plan on modeling and/or using synthetic programs, the Turion might be a better choice for you, simply because of all the software to take advantage of 64-bit processes, those things would be the prime beneficiaries.

A note about your GPU comment. If you're in the running for a full desktop replacement, the 6800 Go Ultra definitely "trumps" the top of the line, MX800 line. No question about it. However, where nVidia owns the DTR line, ATI has definitely taken advantage of the often overlooked mid-range section. The midrange card from nVidia is the Geforce 6600 Go, with ATI's being the X700. In most laptops (but not all), the X700 has a tendency to beat out the 6600 Go. In the Acer Ferrari 4005, the standard clock speeds are usually around the low to mid 2000 range in 3DMark05. Comparatively, the 6600 Go (in its underclocked state) usually gets in the mid-upper 1000s.

However, that is not exactly the case for all laptops. Through some means (and I have not seen anything in the way of definite proof), people have claimed to reach the high 2000s with the 6600 Go in an MSI laptop. Yet I have definitely seen proof that the X700 can easily reach the high 2000s as well--and that's not even with extremely overclocking.

If you've narrowed your choices down to any specific choices, do tell! The Ferrari 4005 is a fantastic notebook if you're looking for a gaming system, but its even better if you're in the market for 64-bit. The X700 card will square off well as a mobile gaming machine. Good luck, and I hope all this helps!

EDIT: My 1000th post!

EDIT AGAIN: Despite what most people claim, 64-bit is not right around the corner; if anything, we won't see 64-bit software trickling in for months, and having 64-bit won't even begin to become a necessity for at least a few years. If you plan on using this for college or what not, by the time 64-bit processing is a smarter choice, you probably won't be able to buy 32-bit processors anymore. Remember that just because 64-bit is new and great, 99% of computers in use by consumers are running 32-bit processors.
post #16 of 20
Redmumba, awesome info..

I'm just curious of another thing, as I too am seriously close to purchasing my first ever laptop..

You said higher MT models were announced today (that 2.2ghz one has me drooling), but I have yet to even find ONE notebook here in Canada that sports this MT line of processor..

Just wondering
A> how long before you think laptops will be readily available with these new MT processors?

B> is it worth the wait, as opposed to only ML-28's and ML-30's available here in Canada that only clock in at 1.6?

Thanks man
post #17 of 20
If your looking for a Turion setup you might want to take a look at a MSI 1029. Its a 15.4" gloss screen, X700 with 128 meg, and hold 2 gig of ram at DDR400 Cas 3, only 6lb 2oz and 1 inch thick, very good battery life with 3 hour and up, and very easy to upgrade later when you want a faster turion later.
http://www.notebookforums.com/showth...light=msi+1029
If you want more info then do a search on this fourm for MSI 1029.
post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hey thanks for all the responses.
Well I am going to stick with the pentium m for this laptop as it seems more appropriate to what I am after. True I may use it for some scientific programs, but the stuff I would be using is not going to need 64 bit computing. I would be using circuit making programs to build and then test out circuits, or other such things of that sort.
After reading all the GPU talk, and then looking at benchmarks, it does indeed seem that the x700 by ATI is the most reasonable of the cards to get.
I want a gig of ram, and a 7200 rpm hard drive at about 80 gigs.
After looking at various laptops, I found this one by acer.

http://www.notebookshop.com/NStore/detail.aspx?ID=329

It seems to be almost exactly what I want, and the screen quality is top notch, as ive seen another acer with the same screen. Not as good as the Dell XP2, but that one is ridiculously good. The only issue I have heard about that acer laptop is that it overheats, but I heard that from only one person. Has anyone heard anything about this?

I am also going to look into some other acer's and then into the dell 9300 as someone on here suggested, it seems like its maybe a bit more expensive. Also Im not too keen on a 17 inch monitor as thats a big large for me to haul around, so maybe Ill look at other dell models.
post #19 of 20
Just as a note, the Acer Travelmate 8104 is literally the SAME exact setup as the Acer Ferrari 4005, except that the Ferrari's higher clocked X700 performs better in games. Not only that, but it uses the same general case design as the Travelmate, with a few minor differences. Anyways, the XPS2 may be powerful, but mobility is not one of its strong points. I myself have never heard of the Travelmate _or_ the Ferrari overheating.

The Dell 9300 is probably cheaper than the Acers, actually, due to the usually-constant 40% off coupons that it comes with. However, it starts at around 8lbs, and it only gets heavier from there; honestly, the Ferrari or the Travelmate both will do wonderfully.

Quote:
Redmumba, awesome info..

I'm just curious of another thing, as I too am seriously close to purchasing my first ever laptop..

You said higher MT models were announced today (that 2.2ghz one has me drooling), but I have yet to even find ONE notebook here in Canada that sports this MT line of processor..

Just wondering
A> how long before you think laptops will be readily available with these new MT processors?

B> is it worth the wait, as opposed to only ML-28's and ML-30's available here in Canada that only clock in at 1.6?

Thanks man
Hey, thanks!

The MT, since it was relatively slow compared to the Pentium-Ms and didn't really compare very well, its not a very popular version; the ML, however, is. Since the MT-37 and MT-40 processors were just recently announced, there's only ONE notebook manufacturer that features them--VoodooPC. Unfortunately, AMD has not announced a date for non-OEM purchases, so you can't purchase them from anywhere quite yet.

A> Honestly, I have no idea. I'm assuming AMD is going to be rolling them out as fast as they can, since they already have them available in Voodoo's notebooks. I don't think AMD has announced any official dates other than "soon." If I hear anything, I'll be sure to post it, though.

B> Well, that depends; the ML is the higher wattage of the two, but it is by no means a bad choice. If the laptop you're getting COMES with the ML processors, go with it! As for the model and speed choice, the 1.6ghz is fairly slow, but consider this: the MT-40 goes for about $350 brand new, and that's a 2.2ghz processor. In reality, it wouldn't be a bad idea to go with the 1.6ghz Turion ML-28/30 now and just get the newer chip when it comes out. If you decide to do this, definitely go with the ML-28--having half the L2 will probably help with the price.
post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
Yea dell is not the way. They dont make a comparable laptop in a 15 inch screen. 17 inch is way huge. Their best 15 inch comes with a Radeon X300.
If only I could find one similar to that Acer except with a 7200 rpm hard drive.
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