SAGER = NO Garantee for their product! new buyers read through! - Page 2

I totally sympatize with mzeitoun.

Also, I think some of us are deliberately ignoring the basic principles of customer satisfaction with any product. I too feel the pain of those folks frustrated with the RMA shipping costs. For instance, in my case no more than three days after receiving my machine it failed on me. Totally dead !!!

Now, the principle issue is that in cases where the equipment fails due to normal use we are left with a hidden cost of having to ship it back to Sager for warranty repairs. All this is OK for some of us to have it happen once. But when it comes to repetitive issues where Sager quality control misses the mark, the customer is left to swallow the cost of ownership to infinity ???????

In my years of owning many notebooks, I have to admit that so far, HP (in this matter) has done very well in my books since they pay for shipping both ways and hence the incentive for them to get a repair done right the first time is much higher that it would be with Sager tech. And please, the HP units do not cost much more that the Sager counterparts. As a matter of fact, the HP units I looked at before buying my Sager were cheaper (but in all fairness , also somewhat technically inferior- but even this is debatable).

I would suggest that Sager change its policy to ensure better quality control at their repair stations. The strategy I would propose to Sager is that the one way RMA shipping to be paid only the first time by the customer. Any subsequent RMA issues during the course of the warranty period should be paid by Sager. While this proposal is still not ideal, it would go a long way towards improving things just a little. I am sure there would be many folks with even better suggestions.

In any case, I am now almost 6 months later (after purchase) expected to send my unit back because of a "hairline" hinge crack !!!
I treat this notebook like it was porcelain - not a scratch, not even visible signs of use and the lid is cracking (the unit is carefully opened and closed 4 times a week!). Now I am expected to incur the cost of shipping it because of a well known structural deficiency not to mention an even higher cost due to loss of use during down time and still be a happy Sager customer ??

Folks, in my view, this is where the Sager experience has a chance of being rotten. Having to pay for shipping everytime is the ultimate insult especially with no guarantees that the repairs will be done right the first time.
Best Regards;

MS

THe bottom line is you have some high school jockey makin 5 or 6 an hr. working on your system. He works on several a day and in all honesty is more worried about getting off work and hanging with the boys or goin and seein his girl or gettin online and doin some gaming himself.
I have a friend that works for a comp company and he works in the tech dept. He has no college, no degree and makes crappy wages, but he honestly likes his job and really doesn't need alot of money to fit his lifestyle. One of the few. THe point is, he was a warm body and he didn't need any certifications to get the job. There was no special school that he went to or any special courses. The only thing that they asked him was if he knew how to rebuild a computer. That was it. Not can you diagnose a problem, can you troublshoot or anything.
Another example. Go into a Best Buy or someplace and tell them you have a problem with a comp. They attempt to diagnose it, but after they can't figure it out, they instantly want to replace the hardware in question, not figure out why it happened. The end result is the same, replacing the component, but now you have no guarantee if it will happen again, what caused it, or how it happened.
Call a tech over the phone, half of them have no idea what your talking about and 5 minutes into the conversation you know they are going through their all powerful tech support manual and can't actually tell you what to do. If the book doesn't say it, they have no idea.
Plus, if computer manufacturers(except Toshiba and HP apparently) started incurring a hell of alot of shipping charges, it would give them more of an incentive to get it right the first time and take a little more care and precision in there work, or hire a better quailty employee to diagnos(sp.) problems and properly fix it. Hell for that matter, if you have multiple RMA's for the same problem, have the techs start paying the shipping both ways, then watch how fast they either quit or get it right. Its called accountability which hardly nobody seems to address or believe in anymore.

Luke, I love ya man. But look at it from a different perspective...

Let's say you have a fall and break the edge off of one of your front teeth. You make the call to the dentist and at your appointment they tell you that you need a large filling to replace it and it will be $213.00 for this procedure. Ok, you agree and then the dentist fixes the tooth and you pay and then you go home.

Later that week, you are eating and suddenly the filling pops off and you are right back where you were, with a broken tooth.... except this time you are minus $213.00. Ok you call the dentist and luckily they can see you the next day.

They replace the filling and tell you that apparently they had a bad batch of the white filling material because they have had to replace several that week that weren't bonding correctly. Of course, the dentist (if he is smart) will not charge you AGAIN for this procedure and likely will try and be as nice and as courteous to you so that you will not think of them negatively.

Now realize, the dentist knows you don't give a rip about WHY it happened or if the bonding material was at fault or whatever... he just knows that you want it fixed as soon as possible and that you don't want to be inconvenienced any more than necessary and certainly don't want to pay for the same procedure again when it was no fault of your own. This is ethical and, really, just common sense business. The dentist isn't going to go on and on to the patient about KERR DENTAL PRODUCTS and them being at fault and they are the person who made the filling material or that PATTERSON DENTAL SUPPLY, the supplier, was the person they bought the materials from. He is going to give the person what they already paid for.

Now if you have Mr. TryAndKeepEveryPenny dentist who cannot fathom the thought of losing any money, even the (relatively) small amount that it would cost to replace the filling. maybe his approach is different. Could he say that he had to buy some new white filling material and so he will have to charge you again for that since the other was defective? Could he try and blame the patient for actually trying to eat on his tooth? Could he try and use PATTERSON or KERR and try to blame them and maybe try to use them as a way to charge the patient? There are hundreds of ways to try and milk this or make it something other that what it actually is- a problem that was brought about by a defective material, and this is NOT the fault of the patient. The dentist was the person providing the materials and the service, so ultimately HE/SHE is who the patient holds as responsible for making things right.

So, what does the (ethical) dentist do? Well, he eats the cost and the time of replacing the filling for the second time. But he does this knowing well that he may have lost time and money on it but that he is doing the right thing and that he has many more fillings and procedures to do so that this one small problem in the bigger scheme of things isn't going to make him close the office down. In fact, he will have a happy patient who sees that the Dr. went out of his way to replace his filling and not charged him. Now imagine that the dental procedure wasn't 200 bucks, but was closer to 4000 bucks......

Anyways, I just don't see how you can wish these common sense business principles away. It makes sense and is fair, no matter how you try to get rid of it. Now, I don't sell PC's but I CAN identify with the dentist because I have had problems go wrong with cases, things out of my control, things that could not even be explained... but in all cases, unless I could without a doubt identify that the patient was at fault (i.e. car accident, biting on fishing lures, eating rocks, well- you get the idea) and the procedure was done relatively recently (1 yr or less) then I redid it or repaired it at no cost. This is what you would expect from nearly any purchase or service and the principle is the same.

But like I said, I don't know how many units are sold and what profits are made from each of them. I do feel like Luke does his best to try and solve problems and that he is available in these forums and knowledgeable. That goes a long way for a vendor. So this is alot of typing about something as small as shipping, but I think alot of other vendors are starting to do what I am saying. Making the returns and repairs as painless and quick as they can and trying not to charge the customer for every small nickel and dime. Probably if the company selling the units had to deal with the shipping costs, it would prompt them to be more careful about the units- both during the original shipping and also during repairs to ensure that they are working properly and also who they use for the parts and materials to begin with-

again my 2 cents....

best,
cal

I agree with caliber...

Luke does his best to try and solve problems and that he is available in these forums and knowledgeable...

The customer service problem has its roots higher up...

It goes way up to Donald Trump... huh


On the lighter side...
I strongly believe Luke should receive a hazard pay or an increase for all those anxiety and sleepless nights replying to every post in this forum.

But, Mr. Dentist does not reimburse you for your gas money/cab fare/bus token/subway cost to get to his office, and that's kind of what I thought started this thread; shipping cost, not replacement cost.

nub you are missing the point..... but that's ok-

let me try to explain it for you. it's kind of like the Mr. TryAndKeepEveryPenny dentist who doesn't want to part with even a little money. So the PC Vendor says, "it's not "my" fault this is going on. Why should "I" pay for shipping? This is the buyer's problem now." instead of "wow, this person bought a very expensive item from me. probably cost more than many serious medical procedures. well i want to make them happy and keep them liking my company and buy from me in the future. me paying for shipping costs is pretty neglible in the overall scheme of things, and besides- alot of other companies are starting to do this, so i am beginning to look bad, like i am only selling 4 or 5 of these boxes a month or that maybe i am more concerned about 30 bucks rather than my customers who shelled out 4000.00."

charging a patient to drive to me to get a filling is stupid and is comparable to charging a client for your website costs directly, or for your 1-800 phone number directly, or for charging somebody for having to drive to put a letter in mailbox at the post office, or charging somebody for gas to drive to work, and on and on. come, on- what did it cost for the person to drive to my office? a buck? well, if somebody wants a dollar from me and they will do 4000.00 worth of dental work, hey i'll give them 10.00 dollars.

that was just a poor comparison-

there has to be a sensible solution that companies can use to absorb these kinds of costs. the whole idea of a company charging a customer for something that isn't their fault is just shameful to me. but hey, i do teeth- not pc's.

the only assumption i can come from the policy of a company that always charges shipping is that there is enough defects and returns that it would kill them financially or kill their profits to pay the shipping or that their sales are so slim that there isn't any money to deal with "problems".

Too bad most pc vendors don't live as close to their customers like the patients live to their dentists. Can you imagine a person mailing themselves to a dentist hundreds of miles away....? Would be easy to drop off your pc for repairs if you bought it locally, but alas.... mom and pop stores don't sell these things that often and you can't get this stuff at best buy. can you imagine the market that best buy would have if they started to sell custom, high end rigs and could actually pull it off? then you could just order online and go pick it up when it was completed at the local best buy. even then, for some people, best buy can be 60 miles or more away.

best,
cal

ps. btw, i am not a best buy nut or something. just used them as an example. in some ways, i think that eventually these big electronic stores will start having their own systems to sell that are as good as these other vendors. maybe it's too much of a niche' market-

IF that is the reality then if you are buying a Sager Notebook does that mean you have the illusion of buying a good top gear brand....

Makes me wonder... What is the percentage of returned laptops for repairs in Sager notebook?
Does anybody know???

Good point, I never looked at it that way, and it is very logical conclusion that may be what is going on. If they were confident enough in their product, it would not seem to be an issue.

Makes me think also...

Are there resellers which have a good customer service by not letting the customer shoulder the shipping of defective products???

Perhaps... there can be a change in customer service when they realize that others are choosing one with better customer service

Then there be a new standard of customer service...


Please do post the reseller on the other thread regarding Sager Reseller Customer Service ... as I make the summary of all resellers of Sager Notebooks

Allow me to follow the analogy of the dentist service in sager resellers...

The dentist office is in a stationary location.
Just like computer stores where they have a physical store like compusa, fry's, best buys.

However, sager reseller's are online stores. They send the product/service to your home.

Just like the dentist who did a home service to a patient...
If something goes bad and the patient's filling fell off....
Still with the same scenario Caliber has presented...
Would it be ethical to charge the patient for the dentist's transportation fees???

Come to think of it...
Are there sager reseller's which have a physical store... perhaps their customer service differ???

A customer shouldn't have to pay for shipping to have a faulty computer on arrival repaired, even if that customer is an international customer. If you can't handle international customers, don't market to them.

Sagers are manufactured in the US and Canada? Not quite. Try Taiwan. Eurocom, a Canadian company, does help Clevo (the manufacturer) with R&D, though, I do believe.



What's made in Japan? (Try Taiwan again )

man you are so comical. obviously, the sellers and the buyers are going to have way different opinions on this, and it's so obvious why. hey, ignore the buyers.... make us feel like we don't matter. just don't say i didn't warn you about the shipping thing. there will be sellers who take ahold of this mentality and stick to the obviously fair thing. like i said, you can't just wish these tried and true business principles away. right is right and wrong is wrong. punishing the buyer for a product that arrives defective is wrong, no matter how you try to wish it away.

read this thread from start to finish anyone that got this far and see what you think. see what your heart tells you is right. in every person we instinctively know what is fair and right. trying to explain that away or come up with flimsy excuses to prevent you from having to eat shipping charges on something that you sent that was defective is WRONG and not FAIR. but hey, if the people keep paying (i.e. are forced to pay it) and you can sleep at night and kneel down at church with a clear concience then so be it.

this is my last rant on this-

best,
cal

Hey Caliber, I think you are barking at the wrong tree

I am not a reseller or a manufacturer by the way so I can't ignore the buyer coz I am one of the buyer myself...

The analogy of the dentist and dentist tooth fill was a good way of showing the customer service involve...

But in the discussion, the element of whether a store is offline or online is not considered...
That is the purpose of an intelligible discussion... looking at all the factors... No need for badmouthing...

I affirm that any defective product should be replaced by the manufacturer. I too believe in that principle coz businesses I know prosper coz they know they can sleep at night.
It is definitely true charging a customer for something that isn't their fault is just shameful to me.

Otherwise, the bad business practice is similar to those fly-by-night products/services... Escaping the support/warranty that should have been in place.

As you mentioned the companies should have a sensible solution they can use to absorb these kinds of costs... that is thru warranty

Sadly warranty they offer right now does not include the shipping charges. But as you can see in the thread on reseller customer service, we are comparing the reseller's practices.

There must be a reputable reseller which have a good warranty and business practice...which as you say can sleep at night.
The practice of passing the charge on customer is not proper....


The bad practices strives because there is no other choice of good resellers.

Perhaps there is one, but is not known yet coz they can't market their store like the big players do.
If there is at least one, then the better choice, of course rules the market.