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Undervolting - Miscellaneous Hardware Dependencies

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I love the idea of undervolting. Until yesterday, I had a Pentium M Bania 1.7 and was able to undervolt it enough to give me about 25 more minutes of battery life. I also was able to drop my idle/load temps down to about 50C/70C respectively. Yesterday I replaced my Bania with a 2GHz Dothan. I was able to drop my idle/load temps even lower to about 45C/60C respectively.

The only problem I've seen with undervolting however is this:

It seems as though that dropping the voltage on the processor drops the overall system voltage below what is needed for everything to function properly. After testing different voltages, I was able to find my crash point. I then bumped the voltage up 10% of that number, or the nearest full digit up (i.e. crash point = 1.052, set voltage at 1.100) in order to give the processor room for minor voltage fluctuations.

What happens at this point is something I have not seen documented in anyones undervolting attempts. Average usage is fine. Internet usage, listening to music, playing video, etc. are all fine. However, when I get into a online game that is heavily 3D, it seems as though it takes a while for server lists to populate. It also seems as though my "ping" is much higher when undervolted. Video tends to get a bit choppy, but this is usually only during heavy traffic.

I had thought that maybe this problem would solve itself when I upgraded to the Dothan chip, but its still there. I do have my MR9600PT overclocked during gameplay and thought that maybe the power drain from the video card was pulling so much juice that it and the CPU were fighting for voltage. So I downclocked my card back to default settings and the problem was still there. A good example is when I fire up UT2004 with the CPU on default voltages. When I go to "Join Game" and click internet, the list populate almost immediately. If I'm undervolted, it takes the list 5 - 15 seconds to populate. And then when I choose a map that isnt already downloaded to my harddrive, it takes the game nearly 1 minute to even begin the download.

One problem I had intermittently is that, when undervolted, my wireless card would stop working for 2 or 3 minutes. This would happen 3 or 4 times daily. This is what led me to the thought that perhaps even the MiniPCI wireless card was fighting for voltage. Which brought me full cirlce back to the idea that all of this undervolting is causing my different pieces of hardware to fight for voltage on my system because there isnt enough to share.

All of this has kind of made me afraid to undervolt again for fear that things are going to shut down on me. Now that I have a Dothan, I really want to undervolt and get the maximum benefit from this processor, but this problem has shied me away from the idea.

I'm not quite sure why I posted this. Mainly just to share my undervolting experience with the rest of you tweak-o-philes. However, I would like to know if any one in here has had the same or close to the same experience.
post #2 of 16
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
I can't find the post youre speaking about.
post #4 of 16
i had my processor undervolted as well, the system never crashed or lagged on me, but when i went to open certain programs sometimes they just closed on me while loading, or wouldnt start up at all. the processor seemed to just eliminate processes that would push its load past the voltage it could handle. since then i just undervolt the lowest multiplier, since thats where the comp is at most of the time and still allows for alot of saved battery life, and leave the rest of the multiplier voltages alone.
post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGraceTFaith
I can't find the post youre speaking about.
Really ? Suffice to know it's not uncommon to have games act that way on a undervolted cpu.
post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGraceTFaith
I love the idea of undervolting. Until yesterday, I had a Pentium M Bania 1.7 and was able to undervolt it enough to give me about 25 more minutes of battery life. I also was able to drop my idle/load temps down to about 50C/70C respectively. Yesterday I replaced my Bania with a 2GHz Dothan. I was able to drop my idle/load temps even lower to about 45C/60C respectively.

The only problem I've seen with undervolting however is this:

It seems as though that dropping the voltage on the processor drops the overall system voltage below what is needed for everything to function properly. After testing different voltages, I was able to find my crash point. I then bumped the voltage up 10% of that number, or the nearest full digit up (i.e. crash point = 1.052, set voltage at 1.100) in order to give the processor room for minor voltage fluctuations.

What happens at this point is something I have not seen documented in anyones undervolting attempts. Average usage is fine. Internet usage, listening to music, playing video, etc. are all fine. However, when I get into a online game that is heavily 3D, it seems as though it takes a while for server lists to populate. It also seems as though my "ping" is much higher when undervolted. Video tends to get a bit choppy, but this is usually only during heavy traffic.

I had thought that maybe this problem would solve itself when I upgraded to the Dothan chip, but its still there. I do have my MR9600PT overclocked during gameplay and thought that maybe the power drain from the video card was pulling so much juice that it and the CPU were fighting for voltage. So I downclocked my card back to default settings and the problem was still there. A good example is when I fire up UT2004 with the CPU on default voltages. When I go to "Join Game" and click internet, the list populate almost immediately. If I'm undervolted, it takes the list 5 - 15 seconds to populate. And then when I choose a map that isnt already downloaded to my harddrive, it takes the game nearly 1 minute to even begin the download.

One problem I had intermittently is that, when undervolted, my wireless card would stop working for 2 or 3 minutes. This would happen 3 or 4 times daily. This is what led me to the thought that perhaps even the MiniPCI wireless card was fighting for voltage. Which brought me full cirlce back to the idea that all of this undervolting is causing my different pieces of hardware to fight for voltage on my system because there isnt enough to share.

All of this has kind of made me afraid to undervolt again for fear that things are going to shut down on me. Now that I have a Dothan, I really want to undervolt and get the maximum benefit from this processor, but this problem has shied me away from the idea.

I'm not quite sure why I posted this. Mainly just to share my undervolting experience with the rest of you tweak-o-philes. However, I would like to know if any one in here has had the same or close to the same experience.
first, you need to redo your crash point.

second, 10% is a minimum at lower multipliers. the higher the multiplier, the greater safety margin you should integrate. safety margin should be between 10%-20%.

third, if your system crashes because you undervolted too much, just reboot into safe mode and uninstall the undervolting software.
post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by laffingbilly
first, you need to redo your crash point.

second, 10% is a minimum at lower multipliers. the higher the multiplier, the greater safety margin you should integrate. safety margin should be between 10%-20%.

third, if your system crashes because you undervolted too much, just reboot into safe mode and uninstall the undervolting software.
Precisely. He might have not ran PRIME 95 enough to really know his lappy's crash point. I undervolted my lappy since March '04 and never have I encountered hardware problems. I do all "graphic gaming" the X300 can handle.
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
C'mon guys. You're all assuming I rushed into this. I tested things thoroughly. Not only did I let Prime95 run in Torture Test mode under Large TFT's, but I looped an mp3 and avi simultaneously in two separate programs. I let it run like that for about 2 hours. In the midst of those 2 hours I also fired up WoW for about 15 minutes. I then let Prime95 continue to run over night while I slept. No crashes or miscalculations arose. This was at a voltage of 1.068. The following day I bumped it up to 1.100 as a safety margin. So there shouldnt be any problems as far as that goes.

If I weren't so anal about the settings on my computer being perfect, I probably would have tested insufficiently, let the computer keep crashing, and tried to run it at dodgey voltages. I probably wouldn't have cared enough to even post about my problem on here either.
post #9 of 16
Again the fact comes, that CPU's are not alike. You might have a friend with exactly the same lappy you have but the diff is that he can undervolt HIS without any problems.

I suggest you experiment and explore more on your hardware surface and perform tests on several situations.

But of course the fact still remains, undervolting may be or may not be for you.
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGraceTFaith
C'mon guys. You're all assuming I rushed into this. I tested things thoroughly. Not only did I let Prime95 run in Torture Test mode under Large TFT's, but I looped an mp3 and avi simultaneously in two separate programs. I let it run like that for about 2 hours. In the midst of those 2 hours I also fired up WoW for about 15 minutes. I then let Prime95 continue to run over night while I slept. No crashes or miscalculations arose. This was at a voltage of 1.068. The following day I bumped it up to 1.100 as a safety margin. So there shouldnt be any problems as far as that goes.

If I weren't so anal about the settings on my computer being perfect, I probably would have tested insufficiently, let the computer keep crashing, and tried to run it at dodgey voltages. I probably wouldn't have cared enough to even post about my problem on here either.
when i used prime95, i had no problems with .940, but when i retested all of a sudden i started having crashes. this is why you need a safety margin of 10%-20%. with a higher multiplier you need to increase your safety margin.
post #11 of 16
the faster your cpu (2.0, 2.26 ghz, etc) the more voltage you require. I can only run 1.020v at the lowest on my 2.0 ghz p-m while on my old 8600 running a 1.6 ghz p-m i can run near 0.94v settings and it'll still be stable.
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakarot
the faster your cpu (2.0, 2.26 ghz, etc) the more voltage you require. I can only run 1.020v at the lowest on my 2.0 ghz p-m while on my old 8600 running a 1.6 ghz p-m i can run near 0.94v settings and it'll still be stable.
you can run your 760 at 1.020v stable at 2.0ghz???
post #13 of 16
Here is some info, not all of the centrinos get well undervolted:
"The new fabrication technology lets the CPU run with lower operating voltage, which has a positive effect on power consumption. Speaking of operating voltage - on the Pentium M, each of the Speedstep increments have one voltage/frequency pair, those of the Dothan now boast four. These are designated by VID#A, VID#B, VID#C and VID#D. In other words, Intel now introduces multiple voltage IDs (VIDs), first encountered with Northwood's C1 Stepping, to its mobile CPUs as well. Starting now, four variants with different VIDs, or differently specified supply voltages, are available per CPU model.

Intel Pentium M 755
Frequency VID#A VID#B VID#C VID#D
2.0 GHz 1.340 V 1.324 V 1.308 V 1.276 V
1.8 GHz 1.292 V 1.276 V 1.276 V 1.244 V
1.6 GHz 1.244 V 1.228 V 1.228 V 1.196 V
1.4 GHz 1.196 V 1.180 V 1.180 V 1.164 V
1.2 GHz 1.148 V 1.132 V 1.132 V 1.116 V
1.0 GHz 1.100 V 1.084 V 1.084 V 1.084 V
800 MHz 1.052 V 1.036 V 1.036 V 1.036 V
600 MHz 0.988 V 0.988 V 0.988 V 0.988 V

Four variants of the Pentium M 755 will be available, each with a different VID.
According to Intel, the advantage of multiple VIDs is that a higher yield can be guaranteed for production. Multiple VIDs should not be of much interest for end users, since they ultimately buy notebooks with the CPUs and don't need to worry about the input voltage of the processor. For overclockers, however, the variant with VID#D will be interesting, since this also runs stably with low supply voltages."
post #14 of 16
Undervolting won't save as much battery as turning down the brightness on your screen will. On my 8600, with dual batteries I can get about 8 1/2 hours of life if the screen is all the way down, but only 7 if it is at it's brightest. Just some more of my $.02
post #15 of 16
@supersheep2

Sorry, I can't resist, but you have only followed your thought half way through, if you turn off your laptop you can get unlimited eycatcher time and your eyes will not tire as fast as looking at a low contrast image on your screen

Sure turning down your brightness will save quite some juice, but as you need some brightness to work with your laptop (and to keep your eyes intact, cause constantly straining your eyes to watch on low contrast pictures will tire them really fast) that is not really an option. I guess everyone trying to get long runtimes will reduce brightness to comfortable settings (which might even mean full brightness setting for outdoor usage and the wish for even higher settings).
In contrast to that undervolting your cpu (as long as the cpu stays stable) will save batterytime all the time without reducing usability.
post #16 of 16
When indoors in a 1/2 way dark room you can get by with a very low brightness. My eyes don't seem to tire at all with lower brightness, but keep in mind I didn't say turn it all the way down all of the time.
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