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Better Cooling for the 7800GTX - Page 7

post #121 of 416
1/18/06 at 4:01pm
Thread Starter 
I remember seeing that a bit ago when heatpipes were really becoming popular. I understand the concept behind it but I just don't see the real world practicality. Unless they have some kind of super alloy to use with the system, the typical heat capacities of most metals, especially those that have the possibility of being liquid at room temperature, absolutely suck. Mercury, for example, has a heat capacity of 140J/Kg, which is about 30 times less than that of good old water. You really can't beat water as a heat transfer medium. It has such a high heat capacity that it can transfer large amounts of heat without greatly changing its temperature. Also, how would an EM pump drive a liquid metal? Granted that I only have a small amount of college education this subject, the fact that metals consist of protons in an electric "sea" (if you will, I know I know, it's basic, but I'm not going into molecular orbital theory when discussing heatsinks ), how would the "pump" drive anything but the electrons (as an electric current). I mean, this sounds remarkably similar to peltier coolers or any kind of thermo electric cooling. Hmmm... I'll look around see what else I can find
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post #122 of 416
1/18/06 at 5:00pm
The question about pm a 770 was because someone said it could be done. Whatever. I meant in theory :P.

Ok... everything you've done so far is on the first page? You,

1.) Stuck a small copper plate between core and HS(covered by as5 on both sides?)

2.) covered the RAM on the *bottom* of the card with that awesome looking copper construction (possible because the pink thermal pads are on the X-shaped thing)

3.) Stuck the X-shaped thing back on?, with as5 from RAM to Copper thing?
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post #123 of 416
1/18/06 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Axe
Ok... everything you've done so far is on the first page? You,

1.) Stuck a small copper plate between core and HS(covered by as5 on both sides?)

2.) covered the RAM on the *bottom* of the card with that awesome looking copper construction (possible because the pink thermal pads are on the X-shaped thing)

3.) Stuck the X-shaped thing back on?, with as5 from RAM to Copper thing?
Yup, that was it. Note that looking back on performance, I really can't say it's worth it . While the copper shim took load temps down 5-8C over just AS5, I dont know if this is better than the stock factory solution. When I get my new GTX I'm going to simply put it in and see how the factory thermal application works. If it really does suck then I'll have to work on an even better design .
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post #124 of 416
1/18/06 at 5:23pm
sweet :P ill wait then .
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post #125 of 416
1/18/06 at 6:22pm
Mr. K6 i wish u were my neighbor/relative
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post #126 of 416
1/18/06 at 6:57pm

spitfires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K6
I remember seeing that a bit ago when heatpipes were really becoming popular. I understand the concept behind it but I just don't see the real world practicality. Unless they have some kind of super alloy to use with the system, the typical heat capacities of most metals, especially those that have the possibility of being liquid at room temperature, absolutely suck. Mercury, for example, has a heat capacity of 140J/Kg, which is about 30 times less than that of good old water. You really can't beat water as a heat transfer medium. It has such a high heat capacity that it can transfer large amounts of heat without greatly changing its temperature. Also, how would an EM pump drive a liquid metal? Granted that I only have a small amount of college education this subject, the fact that metals consist of protons in an electric "sea" (if you will, I know I know, it's basic, but I'm not going into molecular orbital theory when discussing heatsinks ), how would the "pump" drive anything but the electrons (as an electric current). I mean, this sounds remarkably similar to peltier coolers or any kind of thermo electric cooling. Hmmm... I'll look around see what else I can find

used sodium in the engine valves to take heat away from the valve face

(blame the engineering degree for the triva)

not to late to switch courses k6, you'll be building the bionic man at this rate

how much are you looking for the x600 when your 7800 arrives? I'm thinking of getting one for the battery life when I'm travelling, idly thinking
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post #127 of 416
1/18/06 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K6
When I get my new GTX I'm going to simply put it in and see how the factory thermal application works.
My GTX at stock clocks gets hot enough to throttle down while playing Farcry. The temp in the room is probably in the high 70's.

-Doc
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post #128 of 416
1/18/06 at 7:54pm
I just figured out (I am slow) that the 7800 cooler is built way better than the 6800NU cooler. I don't know about the 6800U cooler, but the 7800 cooler should be on every 6800NU owner's wishlist. The 7800 copperplate that tuches the core and the heatpipes must be way better than the uneven alu cooler for the 6800NU.
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post #129 of 416
1/18/06 at 8:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by silicon???
Mr. K6 i wish u were my neighbor/relative
*Mr. Roger's theme*

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX81
used sodium in the engine valves to take heat away from the valve face

(blame the engineering degree for the triva)

not to late to switch courses k6, you'll be building the bionic man at this rate

how much are you looking for the x600 when your 7800 arrives? I'm thinking of getting one for the battery life when I'm travelling, idly thinking
Ahhh! Alkali metals, I totally forgot. Just doing some look ups, lithium would be damn good for this if its melting point was lower. Anyway, I'll look more into this . And thanks, but I love medicine too, it's absolutely fascinating, and I believe that cyborgs and organic computing will be starting to become big when I enter research (if not, I'll bring it in ). Computers are fun, but they're simple and relaxing for a hobby. The human body is just so much more complex and interesting to me.

Thanks for the offer too, but I can't give up the X600 as it is my "OH S***" card . Besides, you wouldn't want it anyway:

Yup, drivers won't recognize wide screen and it thinks my LCD has a max rez of 1024x768, son of a bitch I hate this blurry text . Anyway, one or two more days and my GTX should be here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.Caliban
My GTX at stock clocks gets hot enough to throttle down while playing Farcry. The temp in the room is probably in the high 70's.

-Doc
Got any numbers? Thanks Doc, I might have to say "f the warranty" and copper this biznatch anyway. Thankfully I brought some copper to college . If I see higher thank 92C load, it's getting shimmed and AS5'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiking
I just figured out (I am slow) that the 7800 cooler is built way better than the 6800NU cooler. I don't know about the 6800U cooler, but the 7800 cooler should be on every 6800NU owner's wishlist. The 7800 copperplate that tuches the core and the heatpipes must be way better than the uneven alu cooler for the 6800NU.
So others have reported, it seems like Dell did a little R&D . However, I think the problem is Dell won't sell the cooler alone. I remember reading that somewhere...
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post #130 of 416
1/18/06 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K6
Got any numbers? Thanks Doc.
I've never really figured out what's accurate. i9kfangui, or the driver.

-Doc
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post #131 of 416
1/18/06 at 8:35pm
Oh yeah, I forwarded this thread (the link, rather) to Ed Stroligo at overclockers.com, but I haven't gotten a reply back. I figured he'd get a kick out of something like this, but it seems his laptop "kick" might've worn off.

EDIT: Seems I emailed to the wrong guy - it was Joe that was the "laptop guy" there for a while. I'm sure K6 wouldn't mind his work being posted on a site like Overclockers.com, and Joe might know where that article is about the guy who watercooled his Z71A.
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post #132 of 416
1/18/06 at 8:47pm
Doc,

the driver is accurate, fangui is 6deg C too low. You can crosscheck with rivatuner

Artic silver 5 saved my bacon, getting about 16deg C DROP on temp with fear, recording 88degC ish steady state (different part of game so not exact comparison)

If your throttling at stock, and I'm using stock now too, then from my experience I reckon your dell thermal pad will look like crispy greaseproof paper - mine was cooked from 106deg C (and I never got throttling, that was steady max) I think its initial thermal properies were "cooked off"
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post #133 of 416
1/18/06 at 9:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX81
Doc,

the driver is accurate, fangui is 6deg C too low. You can crosscheck with rivatuner

Artic silver 5 saved my bacon, getting about 16deg C DROP on temp with fear, recording 88degC ish steady state (different part of game so not exact comparison)

If your throttling at stock, and I'm using stock now too, then from my experience I reckon your dell thermal pad will look like crispy greaseproof paper - mine was cooked from 106deg C (and I never got throttling, that was steady max) I think its initial thermal properies were "cooked off"

If i9kfangui is low, then I'm getting too hot since it reports 107 and I can see the graph bouncing as it throttles.

Is there the same gap between the chip and the heatsink as there is on the 6800u? I don't happen to have any copper here, so I'll have to use too much AS5.

Pain in the arse, this whole heat thing is. I have some AS5, and could do it right now, but it just bugs me that I can't to it the way you're supposed to. (super-thin layer)

-Doc
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post #134 of 416
1/18/06 at 9:37pm
Well, I'm sitting here with my AS5, Torx, and screwdriver. Talk me into it. (I've done it with the 6800, my only hesitation is wondering if it will really help.)

-Doc
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post #135 of 416
1/18/06 at 9:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by destruya
Oh yeah, I forwarded this thread (the link, rather) to Ed Stroligo at overclockers.com, but I haven't gotten a reply back. I figured he'd get a kick out of something like this, but it seems his laptop "kick" might've worn off.

EDIT: Seems I emailed to the wrong guy - it was Joe that was the "laptop guy" there for a while. I'm sure K6 wouldn't mind his work being posted on a site like Overclockers.com, and Joe might know where that article is about the guy who watercooled his Z71A.
Wow! Cool, I'd like to see some input here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.Caliban
Well, I'm sitting here with my AS5, Torx, and screwdriver. Talk me into it. (I've done it with the 6800, my only hesitation is wondering if it will really help.)
-Doc
It's only a hair larger than the gap on the 6800. Make sure you check it out for complete contact though, and apply a thick layer. I remember that some of the layer didn't actually touch the the heatsink, so it has to be pretty thick. However, it does seem that it still works better than the stock thermal pad.
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post #136 of 416
1/18/06 at 9:46pm
Alright. Here goes nothing.

Back soon.

-Doc
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post #137 of 416
1/18/06 at 9:50pm
Thread Starter 
Btw, where'd you get a T8 sized torx? Man, I need to hit home depot or something.
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post #138 of 416
1/18/06 at 9:52pm
sears has a beautiful small torx/phillips/regular screw driver set. it has t6-t9 i think, and other various phillips and flatheads. i got it for my xbox modding and i use them all the time now.
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post #139 of 416
1/18/06 at 10:04pm
hey sorry doc, was working

K6 is right about the amount to use, I started with a thin layer but had to go back in and leave a drop/grain size on the core itself, which helped things

I didn't actually leave it to cure or anything like that, just plugged back on. You've done it before anyway; the instructions say it just hangs in there forever. I used a coffee filter for lint free cloth and some 12yr old malt for the alcohol (had a wee dram myself too, any excuse)
The AS5 instructions I saw:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_s...tions_big2.htm

there, implied the plastic bag method was for older versions of artic silver, I used an old credit card as a spreader

g'luck

(I still don't have a torq, I used a small jeweller screwdriver flat blade that fit and was carefull, worked ok)
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post #140 of 416
1/18/06 at 11:14pm
HOLE-E-CRAP.

My factory thermal pad must have been installed incorrectly.

Stock cooling pad, stock clock speeds:
Load temps would reach 113 and the card would throttle down.

Big blob of AS5, overclocked to 445/1150:
Load temps do not exceed 92.

That's a 21C drop! With a little overclocking too! Probably close to a 25C drop with stock clock speeds.

Now the weird part:
Even though the temps were a LOT lower, Farcry displayed a screen full of artifacts and then crashed out after about 15 minutes. I had to close it with Taskmanager. What would have caused that if the temps were so much lower and the game was fine when it was running a lot hotter?

-Doc
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