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4780 Review

post #1 of 17
12/29/03 at 8:26pm
Thread Starter 
OK, here's my 2 bits.

P4 -3.2
1GB Ram
60Gb 7200 rpm hdd.
ati 9600 pro

First Impressions:

Good:
Arrived on time and in good shape.
Software install was relatively straight forward with the exception of some whacked ATI drivers. The omega drivers fixed this problem.
This thing is HUGE and FAST! 3DMark2003 = 2950 with 8+ things running in background. Very impressive.

Bad:
BIG DEAD RED PIXEL NEAR MIDDLE OF SCREEN. Still waiting on a resolution. I will definately be RETURNING it if not resolved ASAP.
CDR/DVD unit is really flimsy.
Overall polish of this unit is below that of a 5680 model.
wireless B card (5680's are now shipping with G's)
Doesn't fit any standard notebook backpack. Did I mention it was HUGE?

If not for the dead pixel I'd be a happy camper. Unfortunately, for the $$$ spent, even 1 is unacceptable to me.

PCTorque told me to deal with Sager, Sagers first response was that I'd have to live with it. (via voicemail) I'll re-post on the final solution when it's presented.
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post #2 of 17
12/29/03 at 9:16pm
30 day return policy!
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post #3 of 17
12/29/03 at 10:19pm
Thread Starter 
UPDATE:

The callback got me nowhere. Heard the same pitch about 'industry standards' etc.. To be honest, I really don't care about Compaq/IBM/Dell's acceptable limits...I did buy a Sager after all.

I even offered to help pay for cross shipping etc... Nothing. Seems really silly to make me go through the hassle of returning and re-shipping. I've already made it clear I WILL return it and order another one if I have too....why not just deal with it NOW and be done with it?

I asked to speak with the supervisor and was told he was out. I'm expecting another phone call tomorrow.

sigh++


Quote:
Originally Posted by gw4043
OK, here's my 2 bits.

P4 -3.2
1GB Ram
60Gb 7200 rpm hdd.
ati 9600 pro

First Impressions:

Good:
Arrived on time and in good shape.
Software install was relatively straight forward with the exception of some whacked ATI drivers. The omega drivers fixed this problem.
This thing is HUGE and FAST! 3DMark2003 = 2950 with 8+ things running in background. Very impressive.

Bad:
BIG DEAD RED PIXEL NEAR MIDDLE OF SCREEN. Still waiting on a resolution. I will definately be RETURNING it if not resolved ASAP.
CDR/DVD unit is really flimsy.
Overall polish of this unit is below that of a 5680 model.
wireless B card (5680's are now shipping with G's)
Doesn't fit any standard notebook backpack. Did I mention it was HUGE?

If not for the dead pixel I'd be a happy camper. Unfortunately, for the $$$ spent, even 1 is unacceptable to me.

PCTorque told me to deal with Sager, Sagers first response was that I'd have to live with it. (via voicemail) I'll re-post on the final solution when it's presented.
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post #4 of 17
12/30/03 at 1:08pm
That's why I went with Hypersonic. It's more expensive but why gamble $2500? Anyway the ZX7 is the same as the 4780 but with guaranteed no dead pixels... a configuration like yours comes to $2900 but at least it'll probably work right away. Your other criticisms will still hold true though.
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post #5 of 17
12/30/03 at 4:01pm
Well, I don't understand how Sager is a gamble if they have a no questions 30 day money back guarantee policy. That in itself is another version of a "no dead pixel" policy.

The only thing you lose is time sending the bad one back and waiting for a new order.

I personally could live with one dead pixel, but as I have realized, not everyone is like me.
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post #6 of 17
1/5/04 at 8:53pm
Thread Starter 
Update:

I never did get a call back from that supervisor, though I'm not surprised.

After a bit more frustration at having to re-explain my situation and getting nowhere, I've decided to return the unit.

I cannot come close to saying Sager has provided me with acceptable customer service. A couple 1 liner emails , essentially saying 'we can't help you' does not do it for me. I am a bit nervous about any 'real' problems that might come up in the future and am going to seriously consider another mfg before I re-order.

It's a shame that there's no middle ground to be found in a situation like this. It is going to end up costing both parties some time and money and possibly for a NULL sale in the end.
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post #7 of 17
1/6/04 at 8:36am
This is bad news. I'm seriously considering buying a new 8890v from PC Torque. I'm the same way about pixels. I don't want anything to do with a dead pixel. It's just unacceptable. Anyone that touts "industry standards" can kiss my butt. That just means it's a group of fatcats in suits that could care less about being responsible for their products and not caring about the customer.

What magnifies this is that I live in Japan. If I order one and get a bad screen, it'd grumpify me beyond belief. Sure, I've got 30 days to return it, but why am I out $150-160 shipping *again* (1st time for the initial order) because THEY sent me a faulty product? Not to mention that since I'm int'l, they'd probably balk at paying to send the thing back to me once they gave me a new screen.

As much as I want a Sager right now, I'm not lost in the adrenaline rush of a new notebook. This issue alone could very well cost PC Torque/Sager a sale.
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post #8 of 17
1/6/04 at 10:57am
85% ship with only 1 or less dead pixels...so your chances are pretty good you'll get a good screen...
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post #9 of 17
1/6/04 at 11:11am
FriedToast, if there is no possible way you could deal with a dead pixel or a return then do not buy anything with an LCD. There is no such thing as a company that doesn't send out LCDs with dead pixels, it's just impossible no matter what words are exchanged or on the site in a way to make you think so. Some may guarantee no dead pixels requiring you to return the unit if you get dead pixels, but no company has perfect LCDs. Sager's dead pixel rate is no different than any other. Just because we have a gathering of thousands of Sager users and you hear from some talking about dead pixels does not in any way mean Sager is plagued with them.

All policies are stated incl dead pixels which most places don't like to talk about. If anyone has questions on the policies they can email or call. That's exactly true that if someone isn't pleased with their purchase they can simply return it in the 30 day period and get a refund. Not 2-3 months down the road, but within 2 weeks of it being sent back.

For Sager to offer a no dead pixel policy it would have to be a $400+ option probably. Considering most cases of dead pixels people can't even see them without spending time examining the screen carefully with different background colors (yes some stuck ones are clearly seen with some backgrounds), most people wouldn't pay that. They would rather take their chances and if they're not happy return it with the 30 day and try again which is a heck of a lot cheaper than $400.

A lot can be discerned from the complaint on the flimsy DVD/CD drive. Sager uses the same EXACT drives from Toshiba and Teac that most every single other laptop out there uses. If there is one more solid please let us know because I have almost every brand laptop ever made here at the office and I don't see any difference in the media drive rigidity.

The most important thing when buying a notebook is to choose the places you're interested in buying from, make sure you understand their policies completely (things are left out or vague on purpose, so you often have to ask). Then when you get it if anything appears to be not done positively your way within policy, then refer to the policy to make sure it is. If it is done within policy then there's no reason to be upset with the company and a return option is always the way out if you just can't see yourself being pleased with the purchase so make sure you understand the return policy.
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post #10 of 17
1/6/04 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Doesn't fit any standard notebook backpack. Did I mention it was HUGE?
What the hell kind of complaint is that - you knew it had a 17 inch screen when you bought the damn thing.
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post #11 of 17
1/6/04 at 3:13pm
Hey toast, since you live in Japan and you're considering purchasing I'd say go for it. You have nothing to loose except the shipping fee and maybe an import charge.

I'm in china for a year and I preordered 2 4780's mid november and they shipped on Nov 26 and got here Dec 5 or so. So around 9 days but I'm in a region in china that probably takes a little hassle to get to so I'm SURE you'd get your laptops a lot quicker.

Anyway both these laptops had perfect screens when they arrived. However my 2.8ghz one has developed a little dull pixel. It's the size of a pin point however it's a litle lighter colored then the others expecially rendering bright colors. I don't mind at all and understand absolutely no LCD will remain perfect forever, even my viewsonic at home developed 1 stuck red pixel after a few months of use.

If you're going to worry about dead pixels and other problems with your sager purchase.. you should also worry if you'll get struck by a car tomorrow...or slip and break your leg in the shower. Simply stated it might happen but the likelyhood of it happening is very slim.

Oh yeah as for a laptop baggie, I ordered a targus backpack with mine and asked beforehand if it would fit. And it does and it's sooo perfect cause I can put my lappy and everything I carry around in there. So much better then the standard case it came with. :O
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post #12 of 17
1/6/04 at 3:19pm
The only Laptop that I have seen with a sever bad stuck pixel was a Compaq from work. I've worked on Compaqs, HPs, Dells, and GW at work and all have been A-OK. My Sager has been A-OK for more than three years now.
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post #13 of 17
1/6/04 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
[quote=Adam@PCTorque]...Just because we have a gathering of thousands of Sager users and you hear from some talking about dead pixels does not in any way mean Sager is plagued with them.
QUOTE]

I've personally had 5 LCD products over the 2-3 years and have been exposed to several more through friends/family. The only 1 that has had any pixel issues is the Sager. (1 of my notebooks was even run over by a car!)
I am certainly not saying that Sager is below 'standards' or is the only one to have these problems. All I'm saying is even 1 is unacceptable to me for the amount of money I spent. I'm a software developer and spend up to 18 hours a day working on my computer, so maybe I'm a bit more sensitive to this than most.

I'm starting to think the $400 bucks would be worth it for people like me. I've spent many hours setting the computer up the way I want it, only to have to return it. Add that to the shipping costs, (here, back and here again) PLUS the fact that I might get another imperfect screen...then a few more hours of setup again. That all add's up to over 400 bucks I'd say. I guess thats why Hypersonic is +500 or so on the same box with their 'no dead pixel' guarantee.

Laura at PCTorque sent me a nice email explaining the situation. It didn't make me 'happy', but did try to help me rationalize the situation from Sager's point of view. Again, not exactly what I wanted to hear, but is nice that someone took the time to try and placate me.

As for my 'complaint' about the backpacks. I did title my post 'review' and was offering my perspective of the 4780. Please note the "happy camper" portion at the end. THIS IS A VERY NICE NOTEBOOK.

The bottom line is I'd like to keep the unit and if something can be arranged before the RMA # is sent, I'm all for it.
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post #14 of 17
1/6/04 at 7:43pm
I went with Hypersonic just for its no-dead-pixel policy, and I was shipped a unit with no bad pixels, but that could be coincidence. At any rate it is an option. I've had four notebooks since 1994 and none have had a single bad pixel at any time - but now I'm suddenly hearing about laptops from all manufacturers having them. It made me nervous. It might be a result of the higher-resolution screens, or just worse manufacturing processes or quality-assurance checking over in China or Japan or wherever the LCDs are produced.

Regarding the flimsy media drives, Adam is correct in that all laptops have flimsy ones. All.
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post #15 of 17
1/7/04 at 1:03pm
I've had my 8890 for about 4 months now and I love it. I wish that something would come out to help my battery life last a little longer but what can you do.
I have a desktop that I just put together this summer and my Sager is just as fast if not faster.


8890 3.0Ghz
1024MB DDR400 RAM
60GB 7200 HD
16" UXGA WVA
128 MB ATI 9600 Pro Turbo
My notebook will kick your notebooks !@#
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post #16 of 17
1/8/04 at 6:41am
CgameProgrammer - There will be more units with bad pixels since lcd's screens these days have WAY more pixels than even a year or two ago.
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post #17 of 17
3/28/04 at 4:27pm
Hey! does the 4780 (clevo D470v) fit the targus backpack??? I'm looking for a backpack to carry mine but none seams to fit! I've seen the targus site and I need about more 4cm...

Could you send me some pics of your 4780 fitting the targus backpack? thnx
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