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Your opinion on a partition issue/theory

post #1 of 21
1/2/06 at 10:25pm
Thread Starter 
Here's a question for the geeky at heart. ...

After re-reading a partition recommendation thread, I got to thinking. ...

If the drive is partitioned to separate program files from Windows system files, would that speed up or slow down start times and program loads?

My partition table is, at present, like this:

1st - 6GB Windows, page file and drivers ONLY (no driver installation programs, just the driver files)
2nd - 20GB Program Files (games, word processors, Photoshop, etc.)
3rd - 29+ Archive (ISOs, downloaded crap, pr0n (okay, just kidding))

Provided that the drives are kept clear of extraneous crud (temp files and things like that) and they're defragmented frequently, it seems to me that. ...

- Boot times should be faster, since windows doesn't have to work around the program files, and all of its system stuff is closer to the drive hub (?).

- Program load times should be slightly slower, for the same kinds of reasons, but mostly because those files are geographically farther from the hub.

- Programs that load on boot (like the Adobe gamma loader, just as an example), could be slowing things down considerably, since the drive has to skip out to the second partition to find that file.

This is all moot, really, since most computers are fast enough and drives are quick enough to cut the access time to nil, even if they are skipping out to a partition 6GB from the center.

Let me know if I'm off base. I might be dead wrong.

Cheers.
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post #2 of 21
1/2/06 at 10:39pm
from what i've been told your windows partition is too small and should never have the page file on it either
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post #3 of 21
1/2/06 at 10:45pm
Thread Starter 
Ordinarily I don't keep the PF on the windows drive but this was an experimental setup, and from what I can tell, my PF usage is next to nil. So I thought I'd keep it closer to center. Reduce access time ... or what there is of it.

As it is, my PF is far too big anyway.
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post #4 of 21
1/2/06 at 11:02pm
I have only a 1 gb PF but I'm currently running with just one partition

But your idea is intresting. It shoudl be booting up faster since all the programs all mostly installed on a second partition leaving the first with all windows stuff... Lemme know how that works out though, cause I've been trying to improve the speed on my tablet for months

Edit: I just realized my tablet uses offline files and synchornizes regularly with my 8600 so I don't have duplicate copies of files... I'm wondering if I partition out everyhting how would this work? lol
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post #5 of 21
1/3/06 at 2:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakarot
It shoudl be booting up faster since all the programs all mostly installed on a second partition leaving the first with all windows stuff... Lemme know how that works out though, cause I've been trying to improve the speed on my tablet for months
That was the original theory, but I often wonder if it was a kind of lame idea to start with. I have to wonder if the time saved by moving unneeded files out of the way is offset by the occasional access to the middle partition slowing things down.

In other words, if I9KfanGUI starts up when Windows boots, does running the head out to the 6GB partition eat up the time saved with the Windows files closer to the center? It could actually make things worse, I guess.

BTW, why is 6GB too small for a Windows partition? My full copy of XP SP2 plus a 2GB page file plus drivers still has ~1.5GB of space left. If I don't have anything else to put on that partition, why would Windows need still more space?
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post #6 of 21
1/3/06 at 3:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohapi
I have to wonder if the time saved by moving unneeded files out of the way is offset by the occasional access to the middle partition slowing things down.
I like to keep Windows and apps on the same part. As you imply, you have possibly moved the apps to a slower part of the HDD (check that with HD Tach.)

Also, moving the paging file to another part is not beneficial, unless it is on the first part of another same speed or faster HDD.

Quote:
BTW, why is 6GB too small for a Windows partition? My full copy of XP SP2 plus a 2GB page file plus drivers still has ~1.5GB of space left. If I don't have anything else to put on that partition, why would Windows need still more space?
6GB should be fine. Just make sure that you delete the updates after a spell, they can really add up. See #2 & #3 here:

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=80511

BTW, do you really need a 2 gig PF?
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post #7 of 21
1/3/06 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by odious_m
BTW, do you really need a 2 gig PF?
No. I agree, it's ridiculous. Ordinarily I would carve it down quite a bit, but since this was a test to see how much difference repartitioning would make, I decided let Windows manage it as it likes. Of course, God knows what THAT might do. ...

Thanks for the article. I'm going to look it over now. ...

Cheers.
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post #8 of 21
1/3/06 at 8:29am
hi all . . .

I have run systems with the 3 partition system . . .
c: windows
d: programs
e: workspace/storage

with pagefile on e: set at about twice the RAM I have available. with 3d apps, it seems to help. I really liked that set up, but then again, I had about 200GB of internal disk to work with.

Currently on my M70 I made the c: partition for windows and programs at 40GB and the rest is storage with the page file on D: at 4096. It is huge for now, but since I have 2GB of RAM, I want to see how it does. I have seen 3D apps get up to at least 2GB PF. I have plenty of space, so if it causes an issue, I can scale back.
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post #9 of 21
1/3/06 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohapi
No. I agree, it's ridiculous. Ordinarily I would carve it down quite a bit, but since this was a test to see how much difference repartitioning would make, I decided let Windows manage it as it likes. Of course, God knows what THAT might do. ...

Thanks for the article..
You're welcome.
I have 2 gigs RAM and I have my page file set at 1 gig.
I arrived at this figure by using the Page File Monitor for Windows XP.

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_pagefilemon.htm
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post #10 of 21
1/3/06 at 5:30pm
I have used the 3 tier system too for the last 5 years.

C: windows 9 gig or so
D: 9 gig or so, plenty for me, i have only about 1.73 used
E: remaning, If I install a game or new program i'm trying out it goes here

C: D: are imaged and backuped on dvd and off site, in case the drive crahes I can get back to my clean install and all programs there. I don't like having games on my image too many issues and too much space it takes up.


My page file is on E: in this example.

Where guys do you go to change the hiber.sys file I want to change it to put it on drive E:, but can't find the key in the registry, becuase I hate having a 2 gig hiber.sys file on c all the time.
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post #11 of 21
1/3/06 at 5:45pm
You can't move hiberfil.sys. And moving the paging file to another partition is not beneficial, unless you move it to the first partition of another hard drive..
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post #12 of 21
1/4/06 at 1:39am
Thread Starter 
Believe it or not, I have another reformat coming up soon (I did this three-partition design just before Christmas), and I'm going to tinker with the setup a little bit.

My PF usage looks to be even less than I thought. I might arrange the Windows partition to just-barely-bigger-than-necessary (3GB? 3.5GB?) and try to shift that second partition even closer to the hub. Then trim the PF to a minimum.

I like this setup, though. It's easier to find errant program files and easier to sift through Windows folders when they're kept separate.

I figure I'll use my wristwatch to calculate boot times, so I can get an idea if it makes a difference or not. Not exactly precise, but better than nothing. Any ideas?
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post #13 of 21
1/4/06 at 1:31pm
The only problem with your set-up is for programs that will run at boot time. The head will have to move inwards to load those files and then continue back to your windows partition. It's a fine line to walk with partitions, kind of like filing cabinets. If you have everything stored in one large filing cabinet it's going to be a bitch of a time finding anything. However, if you over organize your filing cabinet into to many drawers you're going to spend all your time running around the room to find things.


*EDIT* - With 2 gigs of ram your page file should be set to about 1-1.5 gigs.
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post #14 of 21
1/4/06 at 1:41pm
Thread Starter 
Nice analogy. Thanks for the ideas. I'm going to get started, and see what kind of results I get.

Wish me luck!
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post #15 of 21
1/4/06 at 2:01pm
In practice, most applications are so closely tied into Windows that I personally do not see any benefit in having them on a different partition.

Therefore, I would suggest the following three partitions;

C: One third of the Disk Space, up to a maximum of perhaps 30GB for Windows and Applications.

D: The remaining two thirds (or more) of the Disk Space apart from 2GB for Data.

e: The final 2GB for a Paging File.

Ideally, the Paging File would actually be the first partition of the drive since this is the fastest to access and it would normally be the most active, but I am think the first partition has to be Windows so this is not possible and it is not likely to make that much difference in regular use, especially if you have enough RAM to avoid using the Paging File at all normally.

This allows the D drive to be backed up and maintained very easily while Windows and the Applications are generally not changed as much and can potentially be restored from scratch, if needed.
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post #16 of 21
1/4/06 at 5:46pm
Having your page file on a seperate partition on the same drive offers no benefit. Same with having most of your programs on a seperate partition. If you need to reinstall windows, you need to reinstall your programs. As an example, on my laptop I have a 100 gig drive partitioned as follows -->

20 gig for windows/page file/programs
74 gig for games/downloads/documents/music/pictures/etc.

I find this works best for me. I have about 8 gigs free on my windows drive and about 25 free on my other drive.

Oh, and to speed up boot times I use Microsoft Bootvis. It's a free download, give it a try.
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post #17 of 21
1/4/06 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by odious_m
You can't move hiberfil.sys. And moving the paging file to another partition is not beneficial, unless you move it to the first partition of another hard drive..
I'm not doing it for performance per say. I'm doing it becuase when I want to reimage my machine I hate turning hibernate file and delting this file becuase I don't want to have a 2 gig dummy file on my image. Also My c drive is small like 9 gig and I would rather waste 2 gig on my 60 gig paratition. I like having C drive very minimal. I googled this to death, and I found some stuff inthe registry but haven't got it work yet.

I also like having seprate paration for my programs thats cool when u used to to refresh c drive, that it wont' take an extra 5 mintues for the your programs and you can fit ur image on backups more easily.
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post #18 of 21
1/6/06 at 12:29am
What imaging program are you using anyway?

Recent (and I'm talking since ~2002) versions of both Norton Ghost and Acronis True Image do not image the full paging file or hibernation file, just an empty dummy of it.

A re-ghosting of my system + apps partition only takes 6 minutes to external HDD.
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post #19 of 21
1/6/06 at 12:40am
one of the biggest things i can see from this is just the organization. also it might help prevent your windows files from getting corrupted, but the only way your gonna get really good performance is if you move the page file to a hard drive without windows, but obviously that would be a bit hard to do
one of your biggest bennifits is that if you do end up screwing up your windows files, you dont have to worry about lossing everything because windows was kept completely seperate. meassure out how much you need for your apps and games, and then use the rest of your hard drive for storage of files and that porn
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post #20 of 21
1/7/06 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Okay, after a brief foray into another OS*, I repartitioned the drive again, whittling further away at the Windows system partition. Here's the setup now. ...

4GB (TOTAL!) - Windows, drivers and pagefile ONLY.
22GB - Program Files (basically 3rd party apps)
30GB - ISOs, downloads, projects and the aforementioned pr0n ... oops!

I just let Windows manage the pagefile, since there is very little usage and me tinkering with it doesn't have much influence. The program files are a little closer to the hub, so they should get a split-hair's advantage in startup now.

I keep the drive as clean as possible (a la Windows Washer) and defragmented (a la O&O Defrag Pro).

To be honest, the difference in boot times between this setup and the last are negligible, at least by my ancient Timex Ironman wristwatch (which I got for 99 cents at Goodwill and I refuse to upgrade).

I'm guessing that with a speedy drive and a quick processor, there's really little benefit to splitting up the partitions like this. However, if you're a detail freak like me, it's convenient to keep the program files in a separate "compartment". It makes things easier to find.

Thanks for all your tips and ideas, gang! Cheers!

-----

* Just as an aside, Ubuntu Linux runs like a dream on this thing. ... Lightning fast, completely self-installed ... it even got itself onto the Internet without my prodding. I'm thinking about running that as my primary OS, either with a dual boot or with Windows through Wine. I'll save that for another post, though.
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