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Idiot's guide to Macintel computers; rumors and myths dispelled

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
I swear to god, no matter what Apple does people still find something to complain about. And I wonder how the people who are doing nothing but complaining about the new Intel Macs are able to justify drooling over machines with almost the same specifications?

Firstly: 32 v 64 bit

If you're expecting a 64 bit ICBM (Intel Chip Based Mac) then you're gonna have to wait a while. Apple has absolutely no control whatsoever over Intel and which chips they decide to release and when. If you want to wait for a 64 bit ICBM to come out that's fine, but you're gonna be waiting until September at the earliest, assuming Intel is on track to put out their 64 bit chips and assuming Apple gets them around the same time.

Second: Firewire 800

Now, honestly, how many of you have even seen a Firewire 800 compatible device much less own and use one on a regular basis? Also, why does no one complain about the lack of Firewire 800 on PC laptops if so many people are complaining about the removal of it on the new PowerBooks? Bitch and moan if Apple removes Firewire 400 from their machines, but right now Firewire 800 is an extremely niche market. It is expected that the first ICBM PowerMacs will retain Firewire 800 as the people buying PowerMacs are going to have more of a need for Firewire 800 than those buying PowerBooks, simply for the fact that Firewire 800 right now is usually confined to large external RAID arrays and cumbersome sound hardware that is not portable like a PowerBook.

While it would be nice to have Firewire 800 on a PowerBook just on the oft chance that it might be needed, for most users it will just sit there unused. What would have made more sense, however, would've been to add two Firewire 400 ports instead of just the one.

UPDATE 6/14/06:The 17 inch Intel PowerBook includes a Firewire 800 port.

Third: Battery life

Yes, we ALL want to have a laptop that will last 12 hours while using every component in the computer at 100 percent capacity, but you know what? It ain't gonna happen any time soon. While there are no official numbers yet as to the new PowerBook's battery life, it is completely safe to assume that it will be on par with other comparable PC laptops. If you have a problem with the battery life of the new PowerBook you should not be complaining to Apple you should be complaining to Intel for making chips too power hungry, and to the LCD backlight manufacturers for making the backlights too power hungry, and to the hard drive manufacturers for making hard drives too power hungry, etc...

Being that OS X is usually coded in such a way that it is able to take advantage of pretty much every feature of the hardware it runs on, there's a very good possibility that the OS itself will take an active role in controlling the power usage of the new processors which should make things more efficient.

Fourth: Speed

Recent benchmarks show the iMacs to be quite fast. As the hardware in the iMacs and PowerBooks are fairly identical expect the PowerBooks to be quite fast as well.

As of OS X 10.4.4 OS X runs completely natively under the x86 architecture, as does the entire iLife 06 application suite. Reports have shown that OS X is incredibly fast and responsive as are the iLife applications. Any applications that act slower than they should are most likely running under Rosetta which is an emulation layer that dynamically converts PPC binary instructions to x86 instructions and back. Frequently used instructions are cached which will increase performance, but apps running under Rosetta will still run noticeably slower than x86 native apps.

Fifth: Windows

Currently windows XP cannot run on an ICBM. This is due to the fact that ICBMs use EFI which is a BIOS replacement designed by Intel. There are compatibility modules that can be added to EFI to allow it to emulate BIOS, however, seeing as how people have already gotten ICBMs home and tried booting Windows installation CDs on them, the chances Apple having included a compatibility module are extremely slim unless there is some hidden way of accessing it that no one knows about. While Apple has said they would not prevent users from running Windows on ICMBs, it is doubtful that they would actively help them by including a compatibility module where one is not needed.

Expect Windows Vista to run on an ICBM without a problem as Vista does support EFI. Also expect, before the release of Vista, that someone will find a way around the XP/EFI thing and get XP to successfully run on an ICBM. If a group of hackers don't accomplish this feat I expect that Microsoft themselves will quietly release an update that will allow it to happen.

Also, as it has been brought up at least once in the last week: Apple will not lose anything from allowing users to run Windows on their machines. Both the hardware and OS X have already been paid for by the user, so running Windows doesn't put a dent in Apple's profit margins at all. So the truly have no reason whatsoever to stop users from running Windows.

UPDATE 6/14/06:In March of this year a group of hackers were able to get Windows XP running on Intel Macs. Less than a month later Apple released a firmware update that added a BIOS compatibility module to the Mac EFI allowing the installation of Windows XP without any hacks. Apple also released BootCamp which an application that will nondestructively partition your hard drive and burn a CD containing Windows drivers for Mac hardware.

As of June 14th, BootCamp is still considered to be beta. People have reported problems of not being able to access either OS X or Windows after installing Windows, also some hardware does not have drivers—notably the built in iSight cameras and the lit keyboards on the Intel PowerBooks.

A full version of BootCamp, possibly as part of built in virtualisation, will be included with OS X 10.5 Leopard, which should be released late this year or early next.


----

That is all I have to write for now. I'm sure I've missed some things but I have touched on the major points that people have been complaining about or have been misinformed about.

Questions and comments are welcome, flames and abf will be ignored.
post #2 of 55
Quote:
Now, honestly, how many of you have even seen a Firewire 800 compatible device much less own and use one on a regular basis?
Most people that do audio or video work actually on a laptop will run into a point rather quickly where an external firewire 800 7200RPM harddrive is the solution.

Quote:
Also, why does no one complain about the lack of Firewire 800 on PC laptops if so many people are complaining about the removal of it on the new PowerBooks?
I do in fact, and I complain about the fact there are no powered firewire ports on a PC notebook. But why in the hell would I do it here(On a MAC forum, complain about a PC problem)?

Quote:
It is expected that the first ICBM PowerMacs will retain Firewire 800 as the people buying PowerMacs are going to have more of a need for Firewire 800 than those buying PowerBooks, simply for the fact that Firewire 800 right now is usually confined to large external RAID arrays and cumbersome sound hardware that is not portable like a PowerBook.
Eh? How in the hell do you figure that? In fact people would have less need of firewire 800 if things like SATA ports were included.

The thing with the frewire 800 is you claim it to be a niche market, but the fact is it is used in the professional AV markets for things such as interfaces/capture/and storage so that you arent reading your data and OS/Software off the same drive for additional performance.

The Powerbook was seen as a portable professional workstation, the Macbook I see more as a buisness workstation. Unfortunatly Apple in their wording would seem to disagree because of their reasoning behind the MacBook name is because they wanted to get away from 'Power' as in the Power PC.

Quote:
What would have made more sense, however, would've been to add two Firewire 400 ports instead of just the one.
Actually it would have made more sense to ahve a firewire 800 port INSTEAD of a firewire 400 port, as they are backwards compatible with a small adapter cable that costs the exact same as a regular firewire 400 cable in most cases.

The reasoning I have heard behind there not being any firewire 800(NOTE: I do NOT have confirmation on this but seems to make sense) is that there is either no Intel based solution with Firewire 800 at the moment(I find that one hard to believe myself) or more likely that this particular chipset solution did not have the ability to support it, which is more likely. And that if/when Mac DOES release a newer laptop there is a decent chance of enwer stuff having it.

Seablade
post #3 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaze
Questions and comments are welcome, flames and abf will be ignored.
post #4 of 55
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardw...ac-coreduo.ars

Review and Benchmarks on IMac Duo, make sure you read the specs as things like memory are different between machines as well.

Seablade
post #5 of 55
Thread Starter 
Seablade...

Audio and video are niche markets, and most people doing audio and video will be doing so on a PowerMac and not a PowerBook, which is why it makes more sense for the PowerMac to retain FW800 over the PowerBook. And yes FW800 is backwards compatible, but not until you buy an adaptor for it. Makes much more sense to include two FW400 ports instead of one 400 and one 800, unless you're going to include the adaptor with the machine.

And what you've heard about FW800 being absent on the new PowerBooks is what I've heard as well, but I do expect there to be FW800 on the PowerMacs simply because that's where the majority of the audio and video is going to be done and Apple knows this, so they're going to push for it.
post #6 of 55
Hmm I think you are underestimating how many people do audio and video on Powerbooks. Yes for more serious editing and mixing a desktop is used, but that point is pretty high, for most people that need a small mobile setup(Which is a somewhat decent amount) the Powerbook was the laptop of choice.

The adapter to go from Firewire 800 to 400 is pretty common actually and not expensive at all. It would have made much more sense to have that one on the laptop, why would you limit yourself when you have no good reason to? In this case they may have had a good reason to(As we already covered) but that still doesnt change the fact the 800 would have been a better choice if it had been availiable.

Seablade
post #7 of 55
By the way two firewire 400 ports would have only been good(Not nessecarily better, but good) had it been two seperate busses, otherwise one firewire 800 bus would have been better than one firewire 400 bus with two ports. If the two ports shared the same bus(Very likely due to cost savings) then you would be limiting your bandwidth, forced to share that 400 Mbps between the two ports as opposed to sharing say an 800 Mbps bandwidth between two devices. Even if it had been two seperate busses, the firewire 800 would have been able to hold pace very well against both of those busses, and you leave open options for the future.

Seablade
post #8 of 55
yeh, i was a bit confised by the 800's absence as well, particularly when PC motherboard makers have just begun intergrating it into their systems this last year. but...given the express card slot, pro users might be more inclined to use an SATA card and blow right past the 800's specs and performance.
post #9 of 55
Thread Starter 
Well, maybe by the next revision of the new PowerBooks there will be FW800 included.

I still contend, however, that the majority of PowerBook users are not going to miss FW800.
post #10 of 55
Kakaze,

You forgot this one..

Six: Dual Layer DVD drive.

Oh, how the masses have been whining about this one. Few fail to take into consideration the fact the the DL DVD drive was only available on the last revision PowerBook's. Previous models (my own included) do not have it and I'm not missing it either.

Jrsy
post #11 of 55
Thread Starter 
Thank you, Jrsy.

I'm kind of disappointed that the DVD burner is only 4x but right now I don't care much for DL. It'd be nice but DL disks are too expensive compared to SL disks that I'd rather have a faster burner.
post #12 of 55
Well with any luck the next MacBook revision will have a faster drive. At least iDVD '06 has support for an external burner.
post #13 of 55
hell, for all we know bluray and HD-DVD drive may be in the next 1 or 2 revisions, then DL is a moot point imo.i've had my DL burner in my windows machine for almost a year now. how many DL discs have i burnt? 1, to backup that fatass iLife '06 DVD...and even then the iBook doesn't do well reading it.
post #14 of 55
Personally I couldnt care less about BluRay or HD-DVD as I personally think both of them to be severely overrated, but that I suppose is for a different topic.

Seablade
post #15 of 55
intel was started shipping some of its newer PC boards with FW800, so I have a feeling its going to show up with the 965 chipset.
post #16 of 55
Just for those concerned:

Although having a firewire port that would power up devices would be nice this cannot be done on mobile systems for two reasons:

1- Battery life: having the computer power up an external device on battery life will definitely reduce battery life as it will have to power up the device along with the rest of the components of the system.

2- Firewire device power requirements: current motherboards on mobile systems are only able to provide power for devices that consume little power (for example the USB port: flash drives, floppy drives and such), however, depending on the power requirements for a firewire device it may require more power than the motherboard and AC adapter can supply which may end up burning out the motherboard or the AC adapter.
post #17 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by moidock
Just for those concerned:

Although having a firewire port that would power up devices would be nice this cannot be done on mobile systems for two reasons:

1- Battery life: having the computer power up an external device on battery life will definitely reduce battery life as it will have to power up the device along with the rest of the components of the system.

2- Firewire device power requirements: current motherboards on mobile systems are only able to provide power for devices that consume little power (for example the USB port: flash drives, floppy drives and such), however, depending on the power requirements for a firewire device it may require more power than the motherboard and AC adapter can supply which may end up burning out the motherboard or the AC adapter.

Huh?

Funny, every mac portable I own has a powered firewire port.
post #18 of 55
actually a six pin FW can power 2.5" HDDs, external notebook optical drives, and there are even a few enclosures which are supposed to power 3.5" drives off the single cable as well. that's my next purchase consideration. it'd be sweet to have 250GB+ onhand in a 3.5" enclosure. i wouldn't take it w/ me everywhere, but having it FW powered would make portability that much easier when i need it.
post #19 of 55
Thread Starter 
I don't know of any enclosures that can power a desktop harddrive off of firewire. I don't think Firewire specs carry enough power to do that.
post #20 of 55
It dosen't, ditto USB - I think they can both power laptop hard drives, mice and other peripherals.

The main advantage of a Firewire 800 port is that with an adaptor you can plug two firewire 400 devices into it.
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