I got an M60 off the refurb site for 2117.00 + 110.00 shipping, with 512 ram 128 nvidia, floppy drive, 60 gig 7200, 4 X DVD Writer, wsxga screen, xp pro and of course all the little xtras like lan, wireless, modem, mouse, 3Yr Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day). Now, i don't know why but this was a hell of a deal, this machine is nice and came in a new box with No Scratches or dead pixels, seems like they drop these prices at different time on the refub units to get them out the door, and i did check the 8600 refurbs and at the time they was higher, Why, I don't know. Hold out for an M60 if you can and check back every day on there site, buy one with very little ram, and than upgrade later, 512, 333mhz ram is 90.00 just about every where.