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marker01's Alienware Aurora m7700 Review 2

post #1 of 40
3/4/06 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
Aurora m7700 3D gamer review and benchmark.


This review is my an extreme 3D Gamer (and I have found some serious stuff!)

Hello all, I am new to this forum.

Background: I am a 7 year IT professional; I have done everything from desktop support, to enterprise Active Directory design. Been around computer for a very long time, and for the past 7 years, made it a carrier =) After a long day of DNS problems, and reconfiguring GPO’s the only thing I want to do with a computer is gaming =)
I have been a 3d gamer on notebook systems for 4 years now, I enjoy the portability. I keep my desktop at peak performance also. Up until today, I trusted Dell with my laptops. I upgraded from a Dell XPS PM 2.0Ghz Nvidia GeForce Go 7800 GTX to my new alienware that arrived today.

The new rig!
AMD X2 4400+
Nvidia Geforce G0 7800 GTX
17” UXGA (1920x1200) screen
80 GB SATA drive @ 7200 RPM (getting the second drive for RAID 0 next month =)
2 GB RAM
Win XP pro SP2

Anyway, that’s all you gamers need to see.

Well first things first, if your looking for a GREAT review on this notebook without 3D gaming benchmarks (and the problems I will describe) I strongly recommend SagerMeister’s review found here http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=129016


Out the box, with no tweaking, my 3dmark06 score was only 3852



The only other computer I can currently compare with today is my desktop…

My desktop is setup with
AMD X2 4200+ OC’ed to 4600+ speeds
2X Geforce 7800GT in SLI
2X Raptor 36 GB SATA @ 10,000RPM
1GB DDR 400 (cheap Kingston, need to upgrade that…)

I disabled SLI and ran 3dmark06 on my desktop and got a 3859


Pretty close to the new laptop, but did you forget my desktop is running 7800 GT not GTX?

This just doesn’t make any sense!

Yes a desktop GPU will always outperform a mobile GPU. But as I posted in SageMasters review, the Geforce Go 7800 GTX with all 24 pipelines should outperform the desktop 7800GT with only 20 pipelines.

So I went to futuremark.com to view what other people are getting. Unfortunately there are NO published results of the Go 7800 GTX on 3dmark06. But there was a published result running 3dmark05.

Enough of my babbling


The serious benchmark comparison (and my serious point)

I ran 3dmark05, untweaked, on my alienware and desktop system (desktop with SLI disabled) and compared them with published results of a Geforce Go 7800 GT from futuremark.com ORB

My Custom Built Desktop (untweaked)
AMD X2 4200+ (I removed my OC setting, this is with default 2.2Ghz on each core. Don’t forget only 512 L2 cache on each core /w 4200+)
Nvidia GeForce 7800GT

3dmark05 score: 6904


Result found on furturemark.com ORB
Intel Pentium M 2128Mhz
Nvidia GeForce Go 78000 GTX

3dmark05 Score: 7407


Lets stop for one second. I am running a 7800GT on a desktop with a score of 6904. This guys laptop is running a Go 7800 GTX and got 7407, difference of 500 3dmarks. There is argument in processors, the AMD’s normally perform better then Intel, especially this guys Intel mobile processor, but these scores seem about right. 4 extra pipelines on the mobile 7800GTX and a higher score then a desktop 7800GT.

My Aurora M7700
AMD X2 4400+ (same 2.2Ghz as my desktop, but 1MB L2 cache on each core)
Nvidia GeForce Go 7800 GTX

3dmark05 score: 6680


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot OVER!

You gamers might be thinking I have bad hardware, or a crappy mobo, or that alienware down clocks the hell out of the Go 7800 GTX, but you would be wrong.

My bottleneck is the DRIVER?!?!?!?

The system came shipped with Forceware version 7.9.3.1!



You nvidia fans are thinking “Noob, just download the latest divers”
As you might know the 81.x series drivers offer MAJOR improvements, especially with dual core processor systems.
well…

"The NVIDIA Setup program could not locate any drivers that are compatible with your current hardware. Setup will now exit"

Is the error received when downloading the driver from Nvidia.com. . .

So I contacted Alienware tech support and they said:

“Yes, the drivers from Nvidia.com will NOT work, we have to test, repair, and approve all drivers before released. Go to alienware.com and download the latest drivers from there. Well. . .
7.9.3.1 IS the latest driver they offer!!!

This is a problem, a Dell XPS running an INTEL PM (at a much lower price) should not outperform an AMD desktop processor laptop from “Alienware The Ultimate Gaming Machine” as stated on the back of my free alienware shirt!

I called tech support back, and they are forwarding my request to “whoever”

The REAL problem here is there is no way to update drivers for the GeForce Go 7800GTX other then alienware.com.

The current driver on alieware.com was released from Nvidia back in September 2005. The current driver available from Nvidia (81.94) was released November 2005. That 4 months ago!!!!

Come on, at the price of these alienware systems, I expect luxury service and support.

For those of you who bought an alienware for 3d gaming, I am sure you are concerned! But this problem can be corrected, we just need DRIVERS! I hope you will contact Alienware’s tech support if you agree.

For those of you who bought an alienware for performance other then 3d gaming, I hate to tell you this but, as of right now, you got ripped off. The Dell Inspiron E1505 notebooks are MUCH cheaper, run the latest Nvidia GPU’s, HAVE UP TO DATE DRIVERS, and the Intel Core Duo processor is much “nicer” for battery life and perform at the level of the AMD X2 processors with the exception of 3d gaming (AMD still blows Intell away in gaming =) and, well, looks like they can outperform the alienware… (cause of drivers)

I hope this helped……

If ANYONE has any advice, please pass it along. But nothing that would void warranty

Thanks.
LL
LL
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post #2 of 40
3/4/06 at 7:35pm
I agree. They need to give us up to date drivers.

However I am confused -- WHY do we need to wait for Alienware drivers? Hardware is hardware, right? This hardware wasn't made only for Alienware. We should be able to download the latest drivers and get up and going..... right?

Anyone tried it?
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post #3 of 40
3/4/06 at 8:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by msduncan
I agree. They need to give us up to date drivers.

However I am confused -- WHY do we need to wait for Alienware drivers? Hardware is hardware, right? This hardware wasn't made only for Alienware. We should be able to download the latest drivers and get up and going..... right?

Anyone tried it?

Actually, this is a favor provided by alienware. They test and approve ALL drivers before released on their web site.

This is a “good” thing, the last thing we need is to upgrade a driver from the manufactures web site, then get the BSOD, and have to rebuild your system…

But… they “lock” the 7800 Go GTX (don’t know about other hardware) so you cannot load the driver from nvidia.com. this can be done by a simple BIOS flash that basically tells the nvidia driver installer package “this is not a nvidia card”

This prevents you from damaging the integrity of your system, there could actually be a problem with the video card THEY use and the latest drivers. This is common in “high end” computer systems, although I have never seen it on a “home user” basis; normally this is for business systems (i.e custom servers by IBM, Compaq, ect.)

My concern is, what the HECK is taking them so long!!! It’s been 4 months!

I called alienware again to get a second option. Only tech support is working and the people in charge of driver release is out until Monday.

The tech support rep I spoke with was VERY concerned with my issue. He totally agreed that a Dell *.* should not outperform an Alienware LOL. But we both agree, it’s the driver, he even looked up the enchantments the 8x.x drivers offer.

BTW, I am sure it is possible to flash your video card back to manufactures standards (whoever they may be. i.e BFG, MSI, ect). This would likely allow you to update drivers form Nvidia.com, unless Alienware uses a custom manufacture for their mobile GPU (doubt it)

I won’t do that! It voids their warranty, and if they have a team that beta tests all driver before released, there is a reason why…
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post #4 of 40
3/4/06 at 11:08pm
Nice review. I kind of skimmed a bit but I think what you are looking for is just a mod'd inf file. With the inf mod'd you can install any driver you choose. No need for bios flashing of any kind, and wouldn't recommend doing so if you don't know what your doing. Not sure why there isn't any 3DMark06 scores published as many people here have orb links to the scores they have submitted. Just go over the Laptopvideo2go.com and download which ever driver you want and put the mod'd inf in the folder you choose to unpack the driver to. No problem, it is software and from what I've read here software won't mess with the factory warranty. You are right about your scores being a little low for your specs, and I think you are also right about the reason being the drivers. Only the 80 series have the dual core enhancements, which yield much better scores. I hope that is what you were looking for. I also agree that Alienware should keep more up to date on their official drivers (they do have a new bios, and keyboard bios out though).
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post #5 of 40
3/5/06 at 1:36am
new drivers usually boost up points a bit... see you were in some need and im to the rescue

X-treme G mobile edition drivers
http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?o...536&Itemid=41/
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post #6 of 40
3/5/06 at 2:28am

very interesting

Great article, but got to admit it got me worried. I am still waiting for mine to arrive but since i'm a control freak i like to have a fresh install and download the latest drivers myself so by reading your article it saves me some trouble and at the same time gets me worried.

I really don’t like when some parts are locked out like this. AW can still deliver us their own drivers and say we do not support other drivers but to hardware lock is pretty lousy.
And worst part being the fact that the "latest" drivers and indeed very late in time.

Hope they do deliver a new driver pack by the time i get mine.

Thanks for letting us know marker01.
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post #7 of 40
3/5/06 at 3:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntizzle
new drivers usually boost up points a bit... see you were in some need and im to the rescue

X-treme G mobile edition drivers
http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?o...536&Itemid=41/
<ding> <ding> <ding> <ding> <ding>

thank you Guntizzle, u da man, i really did need them drivers.

but.....

this does further prove my point. . .

after loading current drivers to my system (thanks to Guntizzle) my 3dmark06 was raised by 500. these are unsupported drivers that work on alienware hardware.

3dmark06: 4373

alienware needs to

a) provide these drivers
b) support these drivers

anyway, im happy =) with current drivers this rig is rocking, again ty Guntizzle
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post #8 of 40
3/5/06 at 5:24pm
Excellent. I will revisit this thread when my system arrives at the end of this week (hopefully).
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post #9 of 40
3/6/06 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marker01
But… they “lock” the 7800 Go GTX (don’t know about other hardware) so you cannot load the driver from nvidia.com. this can be done by a simple BIOS flash that basically tells the nvidia driver installer package “this is not a nvidia card”…
Hi Marker01,

Your post really freaked me since I will be running linux and if a guarantee invalidating BIOS flash is required to get a non-Alienware driver running then my new AW system is going back to the shop not just for repair but to go back on the shelf for good.

However, after hunting around a bit, I found that perhaps the card is not locked at the hw level at all. It would appear that the .inf file for the driver is actually the culprit and there are workarounds without having to flash the card bios at all. There is more information to be found here:

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/

and more specifically for AW machines:

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/...showtopic=8457

I can't vouch for how well this works but it seems to do the trick according to the feedback they receive.

Interestingly, since the linux drivers do not rely on an inf file at all, this "lock-down" may not affect us linux users at all...

Does anyone more in the know have anything more info about it?
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post #10 of 40
3/7/06 at 5:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuddnik
Hi Marker01,

Your post really freaked me since I will be running linux and if a guarantee invalidating BIOS flash is required to get a non-Alienware driver running then my new AW system is going back to the shop not just for repair but to go back on the shelf for good.

However, after hunting around a bit, I found that perhaps the card is not locked at the hw level at all. It would appear that the .inf file for the driver is actually the culprit and there are workarounds without having to flash the card bios at all. There is more information to be found here:

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/

and more specifically for AW machines:

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/...showtopic=8457

I can't vouch for how well this works but it seems to do the trick according to the feedback they receive.

Interestingly, since the linux drivers do not rely on an inf file at all, this "lock-down" may not affect us linux users at all...

Does anyone more in the know have anything more info about it?
Thx for the info! but, like thouse threads read, the modified inf's are not fixing the problem . . .
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post #11 of 40
3/7/06 at 5:59pm
Hi Marker,

Oops you're right. The principle in general seems to work well but it does look like that particular bunch of .inf's are not the best solution. It was interesting though that the lock would appear not to be h/w based. I spoke to a tech at AW in Ireland and he said that they sometimes get people to try the oringinal NVidia or Omega drivers if they're having problems and there doesn't seem to be any hassles. "The other drivers are simply not tested and 'certified' by AW" he said.

I don't know whether that is really the case of course. I passed him the link to the laptopvideo2go site since they had not heard of this "locking" phenomenon before, and yet you can't be the first to come across this....Go figure :/

Cheers

Rich
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post #12 of 40
3/7/06 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
The pretty much what I got from AW. I am on hold with them now, and my call is elevated rather high now.

They really don’t have an answer for me as of yet, they argue that the system run’s fine with these old drivers. . .

I finally got it through to this last guy, we ran 3dmark05 with their drivers, score 6698, not bad buttttttt

Did an ORB compare and found someone running a Dell XPS with a Go 7800GTX who got a score of 7400. that’s a 700 point difference (no OC on either system) only difference in GPU, he had current drivers.

To make matters worse, he is running an intel PM 2.18 processor.

My processor score: 4799
Dell XPS: 3878

so even with a “non – gaming” processor, he is blowing away AW, and its cause of a driver. . .

BTW Gruntizzle post works GREAT!!!

just for $4000.000 i will demand AW provides and supports latest drivers

-treme G mobile edition drivers
http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?o...536&Itemid=41/
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post #13 of 40
3/7/06 at 10:12pm
The cousin of the Aurora 7700, the Sager 9750 has the same problem with the official NVIDIA drivers. This seems to be a problem with NVIDIA nad not Alienware or Sager, these companies do not write drivers for any GPU.

It is a common theme for as long as I can remember for GPU companies to go skimpy on the drivers for thier mobile products. I use the laptopvideo2go drivers with the modified INF and never have a problem. The INF file is the key to the problem IMO b/c the author of the moded INF's at notebook video edits them to add in an other mobile GPU he missed. So a few minutes of work for 1 dude is all it takes to make any given NVIDIA driver work for us. Here is a guote from him at thier forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilenvidia
Khan, after work tonight I'll add support for the go7600 and some others.
I have been very naughty and not done this yet (slipped the mind)

83.20 and 83.02 original drivers have suppport for the go7600.
One of these probably came with your machine ?

I can add a whole heap of new GPU's in 2 swoop.
But must go to work to pay the bills
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post #14 of 40
3/8/06 at 2:47am
as you all know i havee been slacking on my review......at least typing it at least i am testing it out about 14 hours a day at least...lol....anyways...in a day or 2 for real this time i will post a review....

now for the driver.....

i am running my nvidia go 7800 gtx with the latest drivers and no issues....though the first time there was an issue actually....i redownloaded the file via nvidia's website then uninstalled the old driver then i restarted installed the new driver and reset the screen res all the way up and bingo bango new driver working well....hope that helped though i am sure you have already gone about it!!!!!
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post #15 of 40
3/8/06 at 4:45am
Thread Starter 
On the same system??

i tried that, still cant install Nvidia.com drivers....

most of the reviews i have read state that the driver cannot be updated via modified inf file...

again
X-treme G mobile edition drivers
http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?o...536&Itemid=41/
worked fine =)

anyway. . .
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post #16 of 40
3/8/06 at 4:50am
Thread Starter 
Well, looks like we have to live with old, or unsupported drivers atm…

Anyway, thanks to Guntizzle, I loaded the latest drivers from:
X-treme G mobile edition drivers
http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?o...536&Itemid=41/

Making my Nvidia driver version 8.3.9.0. I loaded the “stock” version of this driver.

As posted earlier, I received a drastic improvement in my 3dmark06 score, 500 points!

But now its time for the real deal.

I’ll make this short and sweet.

Doom 3 Benchmark.

Alienware reports this system with over 100FPS in Doom 3. This benchmark is included with your system /w an icon called “My Alienware PC information”

It does not state what settings are enabled with this benchmark, so here is a real test.

NOTE: by default, Doom 3 is capped at 60 FPS. You have to enable benchmarking mode to go past 60FPS. I will not report “benchmarking mode” basically because @ native resolution of 1920x1200 @ “ultimate quality”, these systems cannot handle more then AA 4x.

I used FRAPS as my benchmarking tool

I used Nvidia Profile “Doom 3” this has Image settings set to Quality
(High performance – Performance – QUALITY – High quality)

This profile has AA and AF as application controlled.

Nothing is Overclocked.

I found an area that is rather graphic intensive, and then enter an area that is about average.

Again, this rig is:
AMD X2 4400+
Nvidia GeForce Go 7800GTX
80GB SATA drive @ 7200 RPM
2GB DDR 400 MHz
WUXGA screen 1920x1200

all test are done at 1600x1200 resolution

All test done at "Doom 3 Ultimate Quality"

Doom 3 at Ultimate Quality:

No AA (by application)
60FPS.
Very steady 60FPS, nothing would change it. Would be higher if I used benchmarking mode.

AA 2x (by application)
55FPS
This is why I didn’t do benchmarking mode. You will mostly see the max of 60 FPS, but during parts of intense graphics, it will drop as low as 48FPS. Still impressive, but at least we made a dent =)

AA 4x (by application)
39 FPS
O.o, well, you will still see a lot of 60 FPS at these setting, but during intense graphics, it drops as low as 30FPS. Personally, this is the settings I leave Doom 3 at. It is very impressive, and not a single hiccup.

AA 8x (by application)
16FPS
Unplayable! Even the menu screen is jerky. You cannot enjoy Doom 3 with these settings. This is the setting I have my Desktop running Doom3. Desktop is equipped with 2x Geforce 7800GT in SLI. Don’t even bother with the Geforce GO 7800GTX

AA 16x
Don’t even bother… Cant handle 8x, cant handle 16x, got 10 FPS in brief test.

So if you’re an unreal engine fan, you have your answer. These are rather impressive results on a mobile system =)

I would go on and on and on with other games I have, or download demos, but you all see my 3dmark results, and until AW released “official” drivers, who knows…

An excellent system for the mobile gamer! Highly recommended, but this comes at a (HIGH) price.

Hope this helped.
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post #17 of 40
3/8/06 at 5:51pm
a 3dmark05 score of 7400 on a go 7800gtx is pretty amazing? hard to believe almost.. i've not seen anyone go much over 7000 at stock clocks. i'd like to see what drivers that dell is running as well as the clocks... anyhow.. just installed the 83.91's from laptopvideo2go.com, hit my highest 3dmark05 score at stock speed today with 7043.
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post #18 of 40
3/8/06 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadedred
a 3dmark05 score of 7400 on a go 7800gtx is pretty amazing? hard to believe almost.. i've not seen anyone go much over 7000 at stock clocks. i'd like to see what drivers that dell is running as well as the clocks... anyhow.. just installed the 83.91's from laptopvideo2go.com, hit my highest 3dmark05 score at stock speed today with 7043.

Don't remember stock clocks, but with a minor oc to 450/1200 you should be able to hit 8000 easy. I ran it when I just got mine and hit 7977 (I think that was it) with those clocks. Haven't run it since though.
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post #19 of 40
3/9/06 at 1:28am
Thread Starter 
yes, my bad,

that dell was overclocked...

anyway, your drivers work better then mine =)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1864949

im happy

thats the highest published 3dmark05 score with WHQL drivers =)
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post #20 of 40
3/9/06 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marker01
yes, my bad,

that dell was overclocked...

anyway, your drivers work better then mine =)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1864949

im happy

thats the highest published 3dmark05 score with WHQL drivers =)

Looks like a good score. With your chip running 200mhz less and a little bit less of a oc on the graphics, that score looks right on par. Link to my orb (haven't run it since).

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1733728

Try these drivers (the 84.12's), they got me over 4600 on 3DMark06 (personal best so far).

http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?o...560&Itemid=41/
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