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Solution for dead pixels ? - Page 5  

post #81 of 96
THIS was brought up before and I trust BBB no more today than I did then. Every time they call us and ask us to become a member because we have such great reviews I say no thanks. These forums hide NOTHING. If popular opinion was that Sager sucked, it would reflect in these forums and I don't think it does in any way. I have NEVER had to delete an anti Sager post from a Sager owner or someone even pretending to be a Sager owner. Take the honesty in these forums for what it is and at the same time understand, most places you go to are dictated to let you know what they want you to know.

I'm telling you guys, I have access to IBM, Toshiba, HP, ECS, and many other brands of laptops and I choose to put this much into Sager because I like what I see, not with numbers, but with quality, performance, and they seem to care about their product. Call it a plug for Sager, I don't care, it's just me being honest which I doubt anyone who knows me or have purchased from us would say we are anything but honest. I've told people when I felt Sager wasn't right for them when they have asked me which system they should get and throw in another brand other than Sager.

Don't get caught up in the politics of web reviews, magazine reviews, places like the BBB that make money from businesses they represent.

There are a few scummy scamming resellers we've caught on here and elsewhere pulling some stuff that I don't agree with. I 100% respect Powernotebooks.com and Sagernotebook.com as places you can buy from and be taken care of though. I'm not talking as a salesman, but as another computer enthusiast who enjoys this site and the Sager system.

Nobody is getting screwed over. Vex knows and knew the policy. He knows I've been doing what I can to take care of the situation even before he ever brought it to the forums. It is policy though and we don't break the policy of 5 or more dead pixels... just like Dell won't give in for their 6 or more dead pixel policy. People can hate the policy all they want, I don't like the fact that people may end up with a dead pixel as small and hard to see as they often are. If the majority of people would rather take their chances with the 5 pixel policy instead of pay hundreds of $ more, then that's what Sager will go with and appears to be the situation. I understand some people are willing to pay more to guarantee no dead pixels, but it's not that simple. If it was, Dell, Toshiba, Gateway, Fujitsu, and the others would be doing it. I've looked into and considered alternatives to this, but can't come up with something that will for sure work because there's a lot of catches I don't have the time to explain.

So, as a recap:
-You do not run any higher risk with Sager laptops of having dead pixels than any other brand laptop they compete with.
-Sager's dead pixel policy is 5 or more which is better than the industry average beating most other brands.
-Sager has never once that I have seen failed to replace an LCD that had 5 or more dead pixels (I've never seen one with more than 2).
-You can use your 30 day money back refund if you have a couple of dead pixels and find it unacceptable. If you choose to purchase a 2nd laptop, there is no guarantee that one won't have a dead pixel.

When I say dead pixel, I also include stuck pixels.
post #82 of 96

Yep

Yep, I agree with Adam.

I knew the policy before I bought the system. In fact it was the money back policy which I thought was fair enough that if I found something I didn't like, was equitable. Some places likely don't even have that policy. So, I don't really think Sager is the bad guy. Do I think they could have done something more? Yes, I do. I think sometimes places use the "letter of the law" to defeat the "spirit of the law". But afterall, they still do have a money back guarantee, and I will be buying another Sager in the hopes that this one doesn't have a big distracting bright blue pixel on the screen.

It may surprise some of you, but I've had a laptop for the last 2 1/2 years with.....guess what? A stuck red pixel on the screen. But it was off to the side and no big deal really, and hard to see unless you looked for it. Not so with the screen I got from Sager. This one, on the contrary, was really hard to ignore. But, it *was* less than 5. So legally they are well within their rights. Sager is just doing what every other notebook company is doing. The whole industry plays the same game, and until some other company steps upto the plate and offers a better policy, or until consumers refuse to accept problems, they will ALL (not just Sager) keep up with "business as usual". I don't think bitching about it on these forums or any other forums will make much of a difference either way. Only money talks.

And for the record, the BBB is a joke. They are a BUSINESS.

=Vex=
post #83 of 96
I agree with what PCTorque stated.... I also wish that more places went for spirit of the law instead of letter of the law... like everywhere :-) Maybe if enough people act on it... There's just the whole problem of people who stand to gain. I am truly sorry to hear about what happened. Also surprised. Best of luck with the next purchase!
post #84 of 96
If you made something that had 1 error out of 1,920,000 times about 20% of the time, and it cost $600 sell it (at a 15% profit margin), would you say that that 1 error should be forgivable? Otherwise, you'll never sell enough to make it viable, and your prices will have to go up to compensate for the product you throw in the trash (that is otherwise completely usable).

That's the pickel LCD manufacturers are in. They can't make something absolutely perfect at a high enough percentage, and because the cost is so great, they simply cannot financially support that low of an error rate. We do not even know how many LCDs are manufactured that don't make it through Q&A at the manufacturer.

Any major OEM, such as Sager, simply takes whatever policy their LCD manufacturer will give them and passes that on to the end user. Also, OEMs do not purchase LCDs separately, but instead get them straight from the ODM (Clevo, in Sager's case) with the barebones laptop. To RMA a screen, Sager has to send it to Clevo who sends it on to the LCD manufacturer.

By the way, Sager also does have a policy that if there are two dead pixels in the center area of the screen, the screen will be replaced.

I dislike dead pixels as much of the next guy, but it's just part of having a laptop. I'm not even sure you could guarantee you were getting a screen with dead pixels before you left Best Buy, CompUSA, or some other store.
post #85 of 96

Hm...

I think the really sad thing is that most dead pixels happen before they get to the end user and rarely do they develop after the fact. This is something that Adam has said himself. It just seems tough to ask a customer to play russian roulette like that.

I have a potential solution to this problem: How about the guys on this list that have laptops without dead pixels that are saying, hey, it's not so bad...it's worth the risk...blah blah blah...can trade with those of us who DO mind and who wasn't necessarily aware of the HIGH risk before purchasing our laptops. What? No offers to trade? I'm shocked What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Remember that.

Now let me just say that I'm in no way upset with Adam or even Sager for that matter...I just happen to be an idealist and think the state of the union stinks! That's all and nothing more.
post #86 of 96
Well put Joel... But if Sager does have such a policy (2 dead pixels in the middle of the screen will be replaced), then why didn't Vex's screen get replaced? Where did you find out about that policy?

I agree with you about the practicality of this. Business is business, but that's because if it wasn't, it wouldn't be there, lol... :-)
post #87 of 96
Ahh! I have the solution, which will fix everything and satisfy 100% of future buyers.

Adam, on your system builder, have a 3rd option under "Display":

"UXGA 1600x1200 15" LCD Guaranteed no dead pixels [+$600]"

Personally, I think it's a conspiracy to get us American's from being anal retentive babies crying about a flaw that may affect up to .0002% of the screen.

I just had an eye exam where the opthamologist measured how much vision loss I have, and that came to well over 1% - which is normal for human beings as we all have a blind spot where out Retina is. That would be like having 19,000 dead pixels! I'm sure if I was getting my perfect 0% vision loss eyes replaced with 1% vision loss, I'd notice some difference... but since living with them a while, I don't know that I have vision loss.
post #88 of 96
Quote:
Originally posted by beebster83
Well put Joel... But if Sager does have such a policy (2 dead pixels in the middle of the screen will be replaced), then why didn't Vex's screen get replaced? Where did you find out about that policy?
Well, it is Sager's policy as far as I am aware. I do not know if it is simply their policy for us (PowerNotebooks), but they don't usually play that way.
post #89 of 96
Quote:
Originally posted by allbad
Ahh! I have the solution, which will fix everything and satisfy 100% of future buyers.

Adam, on your system builder, have a 3rd option under "Display":

"UXGA 1600x1200 15" LCD Guaranteed no dead pixels [+$600]"

Personally, I think it's a conspiracy to get us American's from being anal retentive babies crying about a flaw that may affect up to .0002% of the screen.

I just had an eye exam where the opthamologist measured how much vision loss I have, and that came to well over 1% - which is normal for human beings as we all have a blind spot where out Retina is. That would be like having 19,000 dead pixels! I'm sure if I was getting my perfect 0% vision loss eyes replaced with 1% vision loss, I'd notice some difference... but since living with them a while, I don't know that I have vision loss.
I really don't think name calling or flaming people is really necessary. If people pay alot of hard earned money for something, they should be happy with it. It doesn't mean they are "babies" if they are displeased with a flaw.

And your analogy is actually incorrect. If you opened your eye and constantly saw bright spots which you couldn't help but notice, that would actually be more accurate. How about this:

Why don't you take your glasses, and put a bright dot of paint right in the center of your field of vision, and wear those around for the next two years.

See if it bothers you.
post #90 of 96

Ok lets quit here

Ok I think enough has been discussed on this topic so far without everything getting personal and messy....lets keep it this way shall we...

I dont think there is anything further to be gained 'knowledge wise' from this thread. Lets put an end to this right here...

Vex, like the rest of us, is entitled to be happy with his laptop. We enjoy ours - why shouldnt he?? Go ahead vex and do what makes you happy.

For the rest of us - be happy we didnt go through this ourselves and lets be a little more sympathetic. I am 100% sure Allbad was not targeting anyone - just being his usual humorous self - lets not misunderstand him - he is funny as hell!!

So everyone - have fun on the forums and leave this thread be for the moment.

Just my humble request as a fellow forum member who has been in the middle of a messy thread before - very unpleasant I didnt enjoy it and I am sure nobody really did...

Thank you
post #91 of 96
Vex, I apologize... after re-reading my post, it did sound a little insensitive. There are some people who would be irritated by a speck on their glasses, and there are others who would be more irritated by spending money replacing the lens. I happen to be one of the latter. I do have a scratch on my glasses that is pretty noticeable to others, but I've learned to live with it. But, I know others who would rather spend extra money to get the problem fixed and I don't have a problem with that.

Believe me, I'm glad you're getting your money back on the laptop... I know it's a pain in the ass, but at least you won't be stuck with something you didn't want.
post #92 of 96
I'm sure no disrespect was meant on the part of Allbad, but I would personally appreciate more candor in this situation. Different people see different problems in different ways (and to different degrees). It's a fact of life.

Lol, and there we go, he posted before I did :-)
post #93 of 96

Cool

Quote:
Originally posted by allbad
Vex, I apologize... after re-reading my post, it did sound a little insensitive. There are some people who would be irritated by a speck on their glasses, and there are others who would be more irritated by spending money replacing the lens. I happen to be one of the latter. I do have a scratch on my glasses that is pretty noticeable to others, but I've learned to live with it. But, I know others who would rather spend extra money to get the problem fixed and I don't have a problem with that.

Believe me, I'm glad you're getting your money back on the laptop... I know it's a pain in the ass, but at least you won't be stuck with something you didn't want.
Cool with me. Sorry if I got overly sensitive about it. I am generally the sorta person who likes a debate. I can see where you're coming from. I'm just a little peevish from the whole deal, sorry to snap at you.

You guys are all very cool, and this is a great board.

p.s. --> 8 more posts and this thread hits triple digits. Is that a record?
post #94 of 96
I think that's the coolest thing about these forums. Most every other one I've seen, something gets out of hand and it turns into a mob, everyone takes sides and starts flaming. Here, somone says something and someone else says that we all aught to calm down and....WE DO. I really want to congratulate everyone on this forum. It's by far the most grown-up, responsible forum use I've ever seen. My hat is off to all of you guys. (and girls as the case may be)
post #95 of 96
Agreed :-) Rarely has a problem developed, and if it does it isn't serious and is resolved within a few posts. Definitely a great group of people! That's why I love this place :-)
post #96 of 96
Message from Sager on this:

We here at sager feel what many are feeling when receiving a system with a bad pixel in an eye catching area.

The way Vex case was handled isn't what we want to see happening again, while there isn't an easy way to solve this issue. Since it involves not only Sager with Clevo it also has Clevo and their Source.

While within the Industry Standard bad pixel limits Sager considers 5 or less bad pixels is within the limit of bad pixel criteria and will not be replaced.


Each system is tested, with six primary color in ten reboots.

85% of the High End systems with IBM and Hitachi UXGA screens shipped each day have one or less bad pixel.

Sager has decided to take an extra step, and take matter into our own hands for the 15” IBM IAUX14 Wide Angles UXGA & 16.1” Hitachi TX41D56VCAA UXGA screens.

Starting from 2/18/2003 if any of the NP5660 15” wide angle UXGA or NP8887 16.1” UXGA are received with a bad pixel in the center area within 30days of invoice date, Sager will take the screen cost and replace the screen after it has been returned with an RMA number and verified the location of the bad pixel is within the defined area.

Defining the center area:

If you draw a pound sign in the screen area it will come to 9 even pieces the center piece will be the area covered under this new policy.

Sager will have detail screen area covered / promised defined on http://www.sagernotebook.com/support within the next few days.

If any of the NP5660 Wide angles & NP8887 UXGA systems already shipped that are still within their 30days of invoice will be include in this new Sager Policy.

I'm closing the thread as I've started a new one with their new policy.
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