I love you hammer! If u ever need a kidney or a spleen just let me know boss.
post #41 of 118
3/29/06 at 8:18am
Originally Posted by kingpodge
I love you hammer! If u ever need a kidney or a spleen just let me know boss.
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
Don't need a kidney or spleen at the moment, though I really could go for a cheeseburger...
Originally Posted by plageclochard
I'm writing this post because I feel that it needs to be written, that it may help explain and/or clarify a few things, and hopefully allow some of you to feel more content and re-establish your trust. Let me first say that I mean no disrespect towards anyone, it is not my intent to badmouth or harm anyone's reputation, and if I come off as somewhat blunt at times, it is just because I offer you my honest word, and I will always stand by what I say.
What I can give you is an outsider's perspective, but to be perfectly frank, I don't know if that's welcome here anymore. That's part of the problem from the past week or so, but I'll get more into that later.
|In regards to the private messaging system, I have never seen such confusion and turmoil over what amounts to a baseless assumption that has absolutely no truth to it at all. It has been clearly stated that there are only two people who have access to the private messaging system here at NBF (those being Luke and Shaun). That neither one of them have violated the privacy of any member. Luke doesn't even try to access the system, as he's afraid that he'll screw something up, and the only other time private messages are examined is when it is at a user's request (i.e. a banned member from the for sale section needs material such as ebay payment info that was in their now inaccessible messages).|
|This all started because it was incorrectly theorized that the private message system was corrupt, and it had led to a member's banning. As I said above, there is absolutely no truth to that. The idea that the private messaging system was being watched was then used in an attempt to discredit this site and those who administrate/moderate it. Now it rears it's ugly head as a continued rumor in regards to the promotion of another site. At this point, any use of this completely unfounded accusation borders on being a lie and a means to manipulate others. Please do not let other's anger and pettiness cloud your judgment on this matter.|
|Craig has taken a lot of heat as of late, and that's part of being a moderator. I'm sure that he has talked to many of you about this matter, that he has answered a ton of your questions and tried to be as informative as he could while maintaining the dignity of this site and those who (whether by their choice or not) have left it. His reward for this is to be publicly lambasted on other sites by those whom he tried to help, and to have to continue to deal with issues here at NBF that should've been settled days ago. I think it's safe to assume that he, just like the rest of us, are sick and disgusted with this entire affair and that we'd all like nothing more then to just see the end of it. I honestly believe that in his second post in this thread (concerning emailing DB) that he is joking, it is his frustrated attempt to inject humor to the situation, but I can see how it can easily be taken out of context. He is not on a powertrip either, as I think some would like you to believe. It was not his decision to ban aurora, and aurora's removal as a moderator was a issue that was long in development. He is a member of this site, just like all of you, and like many others he has volunteered his time to better server this community...and by that I mean the whole community, the NBF community. I think that we can all agree that we should treat each other with the utmost respect, and I hope that we can continue from this point in a somewhat civil manner.|
|A lot of things happened all at once, most of it centered around the Dell/Alienware deal. Yes, I understand that many of you felt like you needed to protect your "home", and you're right in feeling that way. But in all honesty, a forum is more of your favorite restaurant, or the local neighborhood pub, think of it kind of like your very own Cheers. By that I mean that it is a very public place, you're not the only inhabitants. Your actions have repercussions, and just like you wouldn't make a fool of yourself out in public, why should you act like an idiot here? It is fairly easy to ignore trolls on a forum, usually their posts consist of a few unoriginal lines or perhaps a ill-used picture, those can be skimmed through with little to no difficulty. What's hard to ignore is when you have an entire page, or multiple pages, that is filled with utter crap, especially when it comes from people who's opinion you would normally seek out and would value, but instead their comments make you feel unwelcome and give you a desire to leave the section. Let me restate that to be clear, in reading all the flaming, especially so much of it from the Alienware side of things, it was awful from an outside perspective. It caused me to view this area in a much different light, it gave me really no desire to return here, and if I'm not here, I'm very much less likely to buy an Alienware (one of the reasons I came to NBF in the first place was to research a sentia). That sounds silly, and in some ways it is, but it's the truth, the actions of the general membership reflect greatly upon both the forums and the brand you represent.|
|There is some grumbling over how things were handled in regards to the moderation of these threads, but both sides of the fence were affected (and this is for all matters, warnings, bans, what have you). I can honestly say that those who received bans deserved them, and in many ways leniency was given to those who continued to push the envelope. It is sad that those who were forcibly given a time-out now apparently seek to split this community, rather than re-join it (in the case of those who were gladly welcomed back) or move on to better things.|
|I don't know if this post will accomplish anything, I doubt that it will, I do know for a fact that I've spent way to much time writing it, and that sleep will be a welcome alternative. The people of NBF make it what it is, and it's always a good thing, even when it seems to be at it's worst. Sometimes it can even be great, and that is the true testament to the membership. If I see you on the game servers, then I wish you gg's, and if not, then may you have the best of luck in the future.|
Originally Posted by Craig
Because the relationships you have here are a direct result of the hundreds of thousands of dollars that has been spent on this forum over its time to bring everyone together. We have to set a standard or this forum would be blasted with spammers.
Originally Posted by dexxr
I don't see why using EMAIL to talk to NBF members telling them about another informative alienware forum should be considered spam. I for one took the email as a warm welcome and a chance to help others as I did when I joined this forum.
I know this is not the only reason for the situation, but I thought I would toss in my 2 cents.
Originally Posted by Craig
The guy that banned you twice from NBF now runs that forum. Maybe I'll PM you his true feelings about you from our hidden admin forums. They're not private forums, just hidden.
Originally Posted by dexxr
Craig, should I be worried about my lifespan here at NBF just because I feel my knowledge might help others elsewhere?
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
Of course you're welcome here Plage, despite the way some are trying to paint this situation, I've found this section to be amongst the friendliest on NBF. That is unless of course you're coming here to cause trouble, then it will be a relatively short bruise-cruise to ouchy town. This used to be a very tight community and we watched out for our own.
Alienware has always had issues with some forums for several reasons, mainly their success has caused jealousy by other brands, and it's been frequent that trolls from other companies have made things difficult for Alienware. Another reason is that Alienware gets more than the lion's share of people new to high performance computers due to their lower cost than other companies, and high profile in the gaming community.
That is why their forums are customer only, their original forums weren't, and I was there for the first invasion of the trolls. It wasn't pretty.
I've rarely been part of a forum community that is at the same time as welcoming as the AW section here used to be, that also had a definite protective bent to it in regards to those that aren't here for any other reason than to cause problems.
The announcment of the Dell-Alienware deal was a shock to many of us, but it wasn't a shock at all that we were flooded by childish morons with nothing better to do than try to cause a commotion with their posts.
We're used to it, and we've always handled it in our own fashion. Up until now it's not been too much of a problem...
As was addressed in another string when Luke himself posted on this topic, many of us have had issues with security involving the rep system. There have been planned negative rep bombings of a few of our members, and I personally was outed by a Dell section mod for responding in kind. That mod should have been removed, but he wasn't.
Seeing as this string you're participating in not only has a private email posted by a mod, but references what went on with the PM system regarding this other, unrelated forum, I'd respectfully suggest that our concerns are not as unfounded as you suggest.
I know of what you're referring to, but for me concerns over privacy were raised long before that unfortunate allegation. Again, the information posted in this string involving private emails, PM's and naming people involved seems to refute your assurances that we have nothing to worry about.
We understand there has been a personel issue that has unfortunately spilled into public view. However, it's very upsetting to see staff here responding in such an unprofessional manner though of course we can all understand their desire, and yours, to defend NBF and the mods we all know and love.
It's now come to my attention that some people may have been banned here simply for posting on this other forum. That in no way affects NBF. I joined the other forum before knowing about this situation, and I sincerely hope I'm not banned simply for posting over there. If that allegation is true, it's very unfortunate that apparently you're only allowed to be a member here if you're an exclusive member, as the mods here used Alienware's own forums to build this community without any issues whatsoever.
I would agree that Craig is taking a lot of heat over this, and I'm completely sympathetic to how he feels about being attacked elsewhere, especially when he feels the information posted isn't accurate. It's obvious that the parties involved were very passionate about their time here building this community, and we as members will not ever understand completely what has happened.
I consider Craig to be a personal friend, so it hurts me to see him strike out with such obvious pain. It's horrible that someone that has dedicated so much time and effort to this forum, the rest of NBF, Alienware, and StrafeRight has been put in this situation, and I hate commenting on the behavior that upset me personally, and I hope Craig understands where I'm coming from. I do not want to lose Craig as a friend, a fellow sR clanmate, or a mod here as he's always been an outstanding influence both on these forums and as an ambassador for Alienware. I wish there was some way to discuss this issue in general terms, but it seems Craig isn't doing anything to help let this issue die on the vine as it should.
I am very upset about this situation, as I said earlier I consider Craig to be a very good friend, and as long as I've known him over at AW's forums, and here, he's demonstrated an incredible level of patience and maturity in dealing with problems and discipline here in this section, and over at StrafeRight. I've also said I have no intention of judging him for his reaction to what must be a painful situation for him.
I can identify with Craig's feelings on this issue as someone I trusted and welcomed into AW's community a while back turned on me behind the scenes, and used emails, private messages and the IRC channel to scheme and smear me, in addition to contacting people at Alienware and accusing me of hacking their database. Eventually, this nutcase even tried to come to my home, though we live several states apart. It all came to a head when she went completely nuts and started posting private emails from AW despite the forum rules and the disclaimers on the emails themselves. The final straw was when my wife was dealing with my cancer diagnosis, and I was put into the hospital immediately. She posted at AW about my situation only to be met with this moron posting how funny she thought it was that I had "a$$ cancer".
I can assure you that nobody watching that exchange after a while was backing up the person causing the problems. She was banned from the forums, yet she continued her campaign over email, and eventually spammed the original AW IRC channel with such rancor and language that AW had to shut the room down. The problem is I was also held accountable by some community members that did not understand what was going on behind the scenes for just not ignoring her. It is unfortunate that the mods at AW didn't recognize what was going on earlier and solve the issue before it got so out of hand. I'm hoping we can get a handle on this here before it comes to that level of damage.
The AW forums still haven't recovered from that, and it's been more than a year. Some of the regulars started their own IRC channel as well to replace the official one, and I hope it continues to see traffic, but it's also not recovered to the community we had before the blow out.
I'm afraid to say if we don't solve this issue soon, the same thing is likely to happen here.
I understand your point, but you have to understand the history of this community. We have had a repeated issue of trolling from another section with no other intent but to cause problems. We generally do not go back to their section to do the same, either on our own or in response. It is my suspicion that this Dell-Alienware deal has brought a tremendous amount of outside traffic, so NBF is likely very concerned for how these forums will appear to those not familiar with the continuous and ongoing trolling issue we've all had to deal with. It even got bad enough that announcements were posted in the other section stating clearly if they come into our section to cause problems, they will be banned.
My question for you is how is it that AW members were banned and screamed at for responding to the trolling while the snotty and obvious comments made by others for no other reason than to incite this kind of response remained? I've seen two other members of this forum ask this question, and get blasted very disrespectfully in return, and one of them is now banned. And do you really think being told by mod staff that we're all a bunch of asshats causing the issues, and that we've all embarrased AW and NBF using language that if we used it would get us banned reflected positively on these forums?
Again, the forums can only be responsible for the actions of their own staff. People, even stupid people understand that. It's not like people coming here have never seen a forum before. It's unfortunate that this had to happen at all, but to then have to suffer the indignity of accusations by staff that we're the cause when clearly that wasn't the case with the exception of a few posts isn't something most of us deserved.
I would agree there is quite a bit of grumbling over how things were moderated during a time in which any reasonable mod here would know would be upsetting for this community without knowing what the deal was. Dell has always been the enemy, and we all watched our company of choice, Alienware, take on Dell at their own game. Alienware was the David to Dell's Goliath after AW outgrew their old direct competitors like Falcon Northwest and Voodoo, so of course without explanation some people here would react strongly and perhaps irrationally to taunts from idiots with nothing better to do with their time than stop in here and tell us all we now own Dells, or that they believe they'll be able to buy an Alienware for two fiddy with a coupon. Do you think that reflected well on the community?
In my opinion, and I hope this doesn't get me the boot, any embarrassment caused by this situation is due to the reaction of the mod staff to this deal, not the regulars here other than those that rightly deserved to be banned for clearly going over the top with their emotional response to the continued trolling from immature idiots that came here with no other purpose than to cause this fracass. Those people were dealt with, yet the castigations and rude responses continued even with old established members of this community that simply asked for clarification.
Had the mods known the reaction to expect, and deleted posts from the trolls, as well as handed out discipline and deleted the posts from AW members that were in violation of the rules, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Had the questions about what happened been answered respectfully either by stating that the rules apply to everyone and they must be applied evenly to both outsiders and members, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Had the mods said they won't discuss publicly private information or mod decisions regarding bans, this issue wouldn't still be of contention.
In fact, if this string wasn't opened to continue to throw allegations, expose emails and PM's and cause further disruption at a difficult time, we would not be having this discussion...
I understand the mods desire to get the facts out there to defend their positions on what has happened, but this is not the way to do it.
I would suggest from here on out that the mod staff return to being professional and not continue to deal with rumor and inuendo, and understand that if people want to post nonsense elsewhere it doesn't affect us here.
I love being a part of this community, and I very much like the mod staff here. I also appreciate very much what PCTorque has built for us all. It's obviously been a great benefit to Alienware up to this point as well, judging by the resources they've committed to helping out people that post here with issues.
I do not believe though that if the personal issues continue and a forum war starts that they will see it in their best interests to get involved and continue to support this community the way they have.
I'm sorry you feel you've spent too much time dealing with this issue, I appreciate your input. I myself feel this is a very important issue that needs to be dealt with openly at this point, at least in this community. If we don't get these issues settled, this community won't be what it has been, both an asset for Alienware, and a great demonstration of what PCTorque has accomplished in providing these forums.
I hope I don't get banned for saying my piece, I would be devastated if I could not play on sR's servers anymore. This has been a great place for me to hang out, and I don't want to see any more needless bloodshed on anybody's part. It's upsetting for me to feel I need to say that, but in all honesty it's how I feel.