Firefox v IE - Page 4

Someone owes me a set of these babies:

[Image of dice went here...]

Here's the mini image:



Here's the full:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2...oardfox3wg.jpg

I don't see where this petty competition is going, really. You guys are obviously in denial.

Also, Psycho, have you ALREADY resorted to petty mockery? You know for a fact that most computer users don't have the time/want to learn the entire workings of a web browser, its faults, etc. to use it. They just want to surf. There's no reason to be stupid and to laugh about it.

Ed: To put this to rest, I'll just say one thing. Even among the savvier ones here on the NBF, the poll obviously speaks for itself. Even when people know how to operate through the net as many of the NBFers surely do without problems, they still overwhelmingly choose FF. It can do anything IE can do and more--and there's no denying these things.

I use Firefox. I've tried opera, and just didn't like it as much. Firefox runs better than IE on my computer (check those specs!), and can do just about anything. The Redshift theme looks pretty dang cool. Recently picked up IE tab. Haven't used it for that much yet. Firefox also seems to load pages faster than IE, which is a plus. 56k modem. Woot! And I can't live without tabs. I also like the idea of free, open source stuff. A couple of minuses though. FF doesn't pick up music on some websites, don't know why, and the antivirus actually cleaned a trojan today. Doesn't usually happen.

Do you use NoScript? If you do then I don't know what to say, but if you don't, try it--it'll make sure nothing is run on the sites you see unless you want it to.

LostPatrol, you seem way too bothered that 15% of the voters don't use Firefox and are using a completely inferior browser.
I don't particularly care which browser other people use. It only really matters to me what I'M using.
I don't even dislike Firefox. But I get really pissed when someone specifically asks for info or help about an Internet Explorer 6 setting, and they are bombarded with knee-jerk responses by Firefox users who feel compelled to toss their VERY worn two pennies at them by saying, "Get Firefox!", and, " ".
...That's the route of my "Firefox / attitude" association.
-What's at the route of your "Internet Explorer / attitude" association?

You accuse me of "resorting to mockery" when you did it in your second or third post in this thread!? (You're cute picture.)

At any rate, just so long as you fully understand, Patrol, -I think you've been a tool in this thread, and it really has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you use, enjoy, and recommend Firefox.
You nearly act like you're a crusader of The Church of Firefox, telling people they're all in denial.
Your petty elitist arrogance isn't doing Firefox any justice, but in my experience, it sure is exemplary of many Firefox users.

I'm sticking with IE6, not because I think it's "faster", and not because I think it's "more stable", and not out of "denial", and not out of ignorance, and not out of spite; but because I LIKE IT !!!

People should stop posting BS "facts" to support their claims about software when they can't explain them (-not you, LP), and stop pushing their choice of browser as if it's some new release when someone has a question about their own choice of browser.
That's all. Those are my only beefs here, but they happen to be my two biggest pet peeves about all forums.

I DON'T want to make enemies or angry dialog.
But I also do NOT want to be misunderstood, either.

Unlike your faux-redneck making fun, my "funny picture" didn't attack the statements of other users directly at the time it was posted, nor did it do so afterwards.

If I'm a "tool" in this thread then, it's 'cause I will push my ideas about why this browser's better than that one? Man, if people don't have strong opinions based on fact in regards to a product or whatever else, they have no right to a preference. "I like it" is fine, but it's most effective when it's based on good reasoning. Frankly, to 90% of the populace, IE takes work to maintain, FF does not. And while at this point I'm more than willing to bet that I could get by using IE, I still don't want to. Why? 'Cause I find more of what I want in FF.

Sure, it's preference. But it's based on more than simple blind adoration. FF users proclaim their liking for the browser because they FINALLY know a stable and useful alternative to Internet Explorer and they're ecstatic about it. Frankly, although I'm not a fan of fanboys generally, I can't blame them.

That's what's "at the route of [my] Internet Explorer attitude / association."

Yeah, we tried NoScript. It just got annoying when we had to manually enable scripts for several sites we go to all the time.

Once you add it it's supposed to stay added. Check your settings, you might have it clear on exit or something like that. I never have to re-add sites.

So IE is better because you like it? At least some Firefox and IE users are trying to use real arguments to explain why a certain browser is better than the other. The poll asked which browser was better, not which you liked. I like lynx, it's hardly the best browser out there.

If you compare features back to back then Firefox is clearly superior, any feature that IE might have that FF does not is probably included in one of the many extensions for it. This doesn't mean that IE is a POS that should be avoided by all means, but there's no way you could say IE is better than FF.

And having to learn the works of the internet, adware, viruses and malicious scripts in order to surf the web safely is not a feature, it's a drawback. The fact that you have 5 Anti-Virus's running hourly says nothing of the browser.

Huh?
-Let's try & uhhh, keep up, ok, and read the whole thread before you post...
Nowhere did I say that.
At all.

The horse is pretty much dead.
I give up. You're all smart, and I'm just really, really stupid.
-And as Rob White says, "Ya can't fix stupid."
Maybe someday I'll come to my senses and switch to Firefox.
In the meantime, I'll try to learn how this stuff works, and then I'll try to research the facts on why Firefox is superior...using my inferior browser, of course.
Don't quite know where I'll be able to find those facts... Doesn't look like I'll get 'em from this forum.


Like I say kids, I've recommended Firefox many times in the past to friends and family because I know from when I used it that it would offer an easier interface for some of them.
Apparently I misunderstood the reason behind the poll.
It's all me, and I apologize.
I apologize for using IE6, too.

Precisely!

Psycho--no one's asking you to switch. The arguments pro-FF are simply statements about its features and the ways in which many computer users feel about having to do extra work to keep their computers virus and malware free. The statement above is just one of many such items.

No one's calling you an idiot that I can see. We're simply backing our side up, which is something anyone with anything valid to say would do.

I don't know why you don't seem to understand that, but that's not really my problem either way.

Fret not Psycho! I'll help you find those facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_browsers

There is it is, a bias-free completely technical comparison between mainstream browsers including FF and IE. Features, supported internet standards, protocols and even known security vulnerabilities.

I don't expect you to read all that, but feel free to do so if you ever get tired of saying that no one has presented conclusive evidence or facts as to why FF is technologically superior to IE.

I read the thread and you only come off as saying "I prefer IE because FF fans are obsessive about it, but not because of any real or factual advantage over FF", and trust me, you are free to do so. It's your choice to use whatever browser you prefer, no matter what criteria you use to pick it. It's not like Mozilla Foundation pays me for "converting" IE users. But if you imply that there's no evidence of FF being better (at least technologically) than IE, or choose to ignore it, then that's just an incredibly biased opinion.

IE is not bad, IE is good, FF is just better.

Edit: Also note that the comparison above does not take into account extensions. Extensions would give an unfair (but deserved) advantage to FF.

FIREFOX!!!!! all the way

Still not the same. FF's side bar doesn't 'auto hide' and their 'full screen' toolbar is non adjustable. 'F-11' doesn't toggle full screen either. You may notice that when I am in full screen mode, I have full access to all my toolbars, menus and drop boxes. So, at least to me, FF still comes up 'Snake Eyes'...Sorry chum...

I use both and I'm using the IE7 beta (which does have problems but it seems because of previous versions, more on that) but I still like Firefox better. Here a are a couple of reasons.

* The little things: Take the tabbed browsing: sure IE 7 has it now, but where is you cursor after you Ctrl+T to get a new tab? You have to hit Tab to get the cursor in the address box. OK that's one key press but if you do that 50 times a day how many extra "Tab" presses did they just build in over a year?

* Searching webpages: They still didn't get this right in IE7. When I Ctrl+F in IE I get a box I type in a term and I hit enter. Now it finds it. Wait I want to add more text, well now I get to either grab the mouse and click back in the text box or I have to Shift+Tab 4 times to get back to the text box (wow remember the tab presses from the last one? result*4), then press arrow to the right (because my term is now highlighted) to clear the highlight and get to the end of the line. Now I get to hit enter and start this again. BS and boo for not improving this from previous versions.

In FireFox I Ctrl+F and get a search bar at the bottom of the page, not right in the middle where I can't see anything right where I was looking. When I type the search term it searches the page and highlights the words AS I TYPE THEM. This means I get real-time feedback on if my search is turning up results and lets me modify them on the fly so to speak

* Navigation over gloss: Meaning, sure the stop and refresh buttons look cool at the end of the address bar (once again IE7) but on a 1920 monitor that sure can be a loooong way from the <- and -> buttons they chose to leave on the left. This could be something I can change but I'll have to think about it and I don't in FireFox.

* ActiveX: I know this has been mentioned before but VERY VERY seldom is active X the best way to address things from a technical standpoint. Running actual code on the CPU of the client through the browser as I understand it, I hear more about it than I see it because we try not to use it. Even Microsoft is pulling back from active X*. Firefox does not allow this, IE does.

One of the apps we use for defect tracking (yes we bought a POS active X using @%#@%) has to load a lot of this stuff before it will work. Since I installed IE7 I can't do that, I can't open the page at all. Reason being apparently is this thing is trying to us active X objects that IE won't support any more since it's so secure. This should tell some of the people using IE6 something; they won't support it anymore but I can use it with IE6 (updating from MS every day) so they have decided something IE6 allows today is bad.



* Note on active-x: Microsoft recently lost a big patent case with a company called Eolas. This patent covers embeded program objects and specifically applies to ActiveX objects. As a result, MS is issuing new updates to IE which, when loaded, will change the way the browser interacts with ActiveX objects. I really don't know what this means to end users other than the fact that MS is changing the rules that they themselves used to say where OK and now the rest of the IT/Development world has to react to it so some websites might not work properly until they have been updated.

Here is a news article discussing the changes that future IE updates will make to ActiveX handling:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1943847.asp

These are a few reasons I use Firefox. I use it yet I have a Dell (go figure), an iPod, a Treo running WM5 which I sync with exchange (I don't hate everything M$), and I don't like the smell of my own farts (to the South Park reference made earlier). So what? I'm trying to say I have evaluated two products and used them both; I don't hate either company/camp depending on how you look at it so it's not a driving force. I think that the things I outlined above are solid reasons to have a preference. I also think that the navigation problems and the extra key presses are pure Microsoft not thinking all the way to the end users experience, just to their eyes.

Actually, you don't have to CTRL+F at all. Mine is set to come up right when I start typing if there's no cursor in any textbox on the page.

1) F11 does in fact toggle fullscreen. Who told you it didn't? I just tried it a good ten times just to see and it worked seamlessly.

2) FF's sidebars can autohide, it really depends on the extension you choose. You don't have to use the default one, you know. Oh and don't try to tell me "but that's no longer Firefox" 'cause extension integration IS a feature developped for it by its makers, thus the extensions are too.

3) Fine, if you need to see an image with the toolbar, here are two:

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7...itled16jh1.jpg

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3...titled27ba.jpg

And note how the File/Edit etc. part is truncated as it is contained in a single icon, thus saving space to add more buttons and view longer URLs. I don't see that happening on your screen. At this point, I think this argument is finished. Additionally, I don't need to use the top toolbar at all if I don't want to. The sidebar I have installed has the option to use standard icons like Back, Forward, Open, File/Edit, etc. and whatever else you can think of. There are also extensions to add multitudes of additional icons for various purposes.

I will not stand down and let you guys crap all over a good piece of software because you haven't taken the time to discover its features. You're not the average user, so I'm not going to let you off that easy. The people on this forum regard themselves as savvy (with good reason most of the time), and you have boasted yourselves as such in this thread certainly. So I expect a little more than what we've seen up to now.

You don't have to use it, as I said before. But for God's sake men, don't talk smack about something you (apparently) don't know anything about.

Firefox.

I trust it.

Hey , I'm not crappin on FF. To each his own. My bad on the F-11, but it still doesn't make the Window Title border disappear. If I needed more room in the address bar, I can just grab the resizing handle. Try to resize it in FF. And as to the 'Flaw' in fullscreen mode, try to get the Window's (Bottom) Task Bar or any other Auto-Hide Toolbar to appear. I couldn't do it without having to exit Full Screen mode. That is why I still use IE. I like the way it works. PS, as to tabbed browsing, I've been doing that on my Task Bar for years.

1. Um... I just did. Into one icon.

2. The whole point of tabs is to reduce the need to share taskbar space with other applications. It gives the browser one window on the taskbar, which you click and then narrow in on your desired options. If you think it's the same thing, then you obviously missed the entire point.

As for your status bar thing... I am more than willing to bet I'd be able to find a way to get it to show. However, I'm realizing more and more as this thread progresses that you simply can't be pleased.

You can do what you like, I don't care. I've proven the case for FF here and I thing anyone with sense can very well see that.

Hhmmm, if you mean you where opening multiple instances of IE then you should look at the take manager and see how many resources they use up a piece. Using tabbed browsing within one browser is much more efficient