Linux Distro for developer and office productivity - Page 2

I find it funny you mention this, yet you apparently didnt give gnome half a chance as ABF had to explain how to do things that are very easy to figure out and not very difficult at all, most of which only involve a config program that you seem to demand in your desktop environment. Oh and the reason that many distros dont include the multimedia support you mention by default? Because there are legality issues with a lot of it, win32codecs for example has legality that could be questioned, Lame is another one. DVD support as I am sure you must be aware from the amount of sites that explain how to do this on linux is another one. All of these bring up legality issues that some distros obviously dont want to deal with, of course updating to all these issues in Ubuntu requires running a single script, difference is who accepts responsibility for legal issues should they come up. Seablade

Yeah I see your point. Every one has there on likes.

I was accually considering for a while having a Elightenment OS or one the xfce aswell so people can choose. That's why I have a package all set up. I was testing it alot. The only thing that I really love about KDE that is hard to give up is the konqueror app. I can brows folders and I cheat in Enlightenment and use it. But I also know that they are just starting so I understand. But what is weird with them is all the wallpapers and icons are accually apps. E cann't understand jpg or png or anything you have to create the app so that is a big downner and I don't think they are going to change it. the thing that blows me away about XFCE is just what it can do compaired to the size it is. But I don't use it.

What made me so angry was I was thinking of expanding to a Gnome version aswell for those who still like gnome. But I couldn't get the damn thing to work. I used a standard Slack base and FreeRock Gnome. And it was just all crap. I couldn't change the theme, I got errors but so general that it made no sence. And like I said when I tried runing in in the console it didn't give any errors in the console just the same on the screen. And I found the file manager unusabel. I was looking and clicking for several hours I felt like I was drownding. I wanted to breath but some Gnome was holding my head under water.

I may try Gnome again but not FreeRock they obviosly didn't package there files right.

Well on that I agree alittle but not all the way.

Because it's legal grey and no one is going to come looking for me.

99% of all distros are just taking a major distro base and throwing KDE or Gnome on it and nothing else at all. No configureing no thought to apps people need nothing. I tried so many distros and basicly it was eather stock KDE or Gnome or XFCE and that was it. I would never remember the name of the OS because they where all the same. I'm sorry but Taking Debian base files and installing Debians Gnome desktop and puting the Ubuntu name on it doesn't do anything for me. Or installing just the Debian KDE desktop and calling it Kubuntu doesn't do anything for me. Atleast Klax said it was just KDE to show people not trying to say it was anything real like all the other. I mean Linspire took the time to make there own look and feel and settings. And Xandar or what ever it's called also took some time to make there own. But 99% is just the kernel with KDE thrown on top. I'm sorry I need more and everyone has done that a million times.

I mean try to change some config options or something. Add some apps something. Look though osdir.com and you will see what I mean.

wait what? my gnome looks like GNOME. let me illustrate this for the blind: this is kde: this is gnome: this is my gnome: are you blind? i tried KDE recently too. as recently as last week i installed KDE on my Arch and didn't like it. found a few things broken that worked fine under gnome, so i went back to gnome for that reason. QT is more bloaded that GTK, thats a fact, although on modern computers its hard to see a difference in performance. Just for kicks I had an old box lying around (pentium mmx 133mhz, 64mb ram) on which I installed Mandrake 10 with both KDE and Gnome. Just so happened I could actually FEEL gnome being faster (not much, but a few seconds here, few more there, the numbers add up). The question is: have you tried Dapper Drake? Than you know that the Kubuntu team admited that they are aware Kubuntu is more buggy than ubuntu (although most of them have been resolved by Drake) Not since Hoary they are not. In fact, the only thing Debian and Ubuntu now share is the APT package manager. Everything else on ubuntu is different, so much that installing .deb files from Debian will break ubuntu, and installing ubuntu debs on debian will break debian. Have you tried Esspresso? (or whatever they call it now). And it not working on your dell, you mean like your crappy installer not working on my Uniwill? like i said above. 1) UBUNTU IS NOT DEBIAN UNSTABLE. 2) Kubuntu can't be more useful than Ubuntu because it has more unresolved bugs. PCLinuxOS .92, Linspire Five-0, Karoraa XGL LiveCD 0.2 Tried all 3. All 3 (with Linspire lacking MP3 and DVD support) did everything including wireless drivers and FGLRX setup right out of the box. Also actually Ubuntu Dapper Drake. FGLRX is there by default, just needs to be enabled in xorg.conf. AS a developer, you should be aware that Linux is made so that users can customize it to their liking. So having the latest kernel/wm as a base is a great starting point to install other software each unique user might need. I've been successfuly not using windows for a while now, and look, i am not using your distro! what part of system logs dont you understand? are you retarded? I use regular gnome, not freerock. Don't tell me what i use without knowning. actually more like 40% and rising thanks to Ubuntu's popularity. learn your facts. UBUNTU IS NOT STRAIGHT UP DEBIAN+GNOME. The Ubuntu team goes above and beyond in lands where Debian doesn't venture. First of all the most obvious difference is how they tie everything together graphically with the usplash, esperesso installer, and ubuntulooks theme. Debian just uses straight out generic gnome last time I checked. Ubuntu also adds packages and configuratings debian doesn't do, this is including the restricted-modules package which adds support to FGLRX, nvidia, madwifi, ipw2100, ipw2200, and many other hardware. Does ubuntu have roots in debian? of course! but is ubuntu just another debian? no. and i say all of the above as a linux user of oh about 3 or 4 years, at some point i've tried oh pretty much every distro on the DistroWatch Top50, I've been a long time Ubuntu user (since Warty, dedicated to Hoary, dissapointed by Breezy, and very excited about Dapper). SO i know many distros and how they like to get the work done. Some distros that stand out of my mind as winners: For a Complete noob: Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS For somebody who wants to learn: Gentoo For highly advanced users: Gentoo and SourceMage For intermediate-advanced users: Arch For noob-ish, but not 100% noob: Mepis For those who want a solid powerhouse: Mandriva and here are some losers (in order starting with #1 for being the worst piece of sh*t i've tried) 1. Suse. --- nothing worked right out of the box and it was painfully slow and bloated like a mofo. 2. Linspire Five-0 --- its supposed to be the easy to use uber noob distro, but it proved slow and very difficult to configure 3. Fedora -- better than suse, but things were still broken, bloaded, and kinda slow 4. CentOS and Aurox, both based on RHEL...need I say more? 5. Lunar --- its supposed to be the more advnaced branch of Sourceror but it didn't show it. 6. Kororra and VLOS -- they are binary Gentoo installs pretty much. not that making gentoo easy to install is a bad thing, i think both are terrific projects, but there is still lots of work to be done. 7. Myah -- hate to do tihs to you. but if its ment to be a noob-friendly distro and the installer fails w/o giving me a good error message, wtf?

I said list just one OS that had all that. And you listed 3 that didn't. Why didn't you not undersntand I was saying find 1 that does. Not 3 that I have all use that does NOT support it all out of the box. The only close one is Linspire. But they are greedy and only sometimes offer the download for free. But then they want you to pay for any of there files.

Yes Kubuntu is buggy but does't matter because I wouldn't use it anyway. It is just KDE on Debian yes I said DEBIAN just like Linspire DEBIAN.

Myah is Slackware. Ofcource modiffide alot but still slackware.

And the reason why you didn't like KDE is probably the same reason why I didn't like Gnome. Because the person who packaged it didn't do a good job of it.

FreeRock Gnome is the Gnome WM packaged for Slackware that is why I used that. I didn't feel like compiling the whole WM from souce just to try it out on my system. When I said it was the same version if you look at the version of Gnome you listed above is the exact same as what I installed. It was just package for slackware by the FreeRock team who like kubuntu did a bad job of it.

I know how to read errors and look them up. I'm not the one who couldn't figure out the Myah installer. It's similar to what Slax used to use. You are the only one so far that couldn't do it. Even first time linux users have no problem.

PCLinuxOS does all those things out of the box. PERIOD.

fglrx --- yes
media -- yes
wireless -- yes
easy to install with an installer that doesnt crash -- god yes!

Oh and I really like how you are comparing Myah OS against multimillion dollar companies with linux enginers behind them. What makes it so funny is not only can I stand up to them I beat them. And I have no training just an intrest to use linux but couldn't find a real system out there. I guess my standards are to high. But I wanted something real. I made the OS and Both websites myself. I have released 5 version in the last year. I have also released almost 200 games for my system all myself with nothing more then Google and seeing what everyone else didn't have that I wanted.

If you think Ubuntu is so great then use it. I will be happy for you. I have lot's of copies of Ubuntu laying around I always try things. I keep them so they can gather dust. If you love it use it. I have no use for it.

I will leave you all to the hooker bunny. I like to talk some times but I must go back to work. I have to get 2.1 out it's been done awile but getting it all set for the public download and contacting people takes alot of work.

Some people are try distros and are happy and back them up. Some are not and try others. Some try them all with no joy and instead of just arguing about it or making false idoal of them they actually create something of there own. So I can see your happy with what your given. I'm sorry I wasn't.

PCLinuxOS or Mandrake as I call it. DOES NOT HAVE EVERYTHING I LISTED OR WANT

SORRY, what do you win. Reading glasses.

Please just on OS that has it all.

And my installer does NOT CRASH.

Unless the moron tries to install into a partition that doesn't exist maybe. I wounder where I could find a person like that. Know of any?

ABF calm down a bit [quote] QT is more bloaded that GTK, thats a fact, although on modern computers its hard to see a difference in performance. Just for kicks I had an old box lying around (pentium mmx 133mhz, 64mb ram) on which I installed Mandrake 10 with both KDE and Gnome. Just so happened I could actually FEEL gnome being faster (not much, but a few seconds here, few more there, the numbers add up). [quote] How bloated QT is really depends on many things though. As I know you are aware, cause i have mentioned it several times, QT only apps look a LOT like kdelib apps and that makes a huge difference. But even in QT how bloated it is depends on how you compile it, which for the end user can depend on anything from how the package is compiled, to what flags the software uses to compile itself. The first sensible thing I have heard in a while Not quite to that extent there ABF, however oyu are right in there are many differences and using a standard .deb CAN break your system(It is not a garunteed though) Ubuntu does put a lot more effort into many things, particularly their installer, but as both of you should be well aware just because an installer works well on one machine or even many, doesnt mean it will on all, particularly true with laptops. And y es this is true even with Windows, not true with Mac because they control their hardware so its a bit easier on them And that is very possible, plus even if they did come looking for you you have a way out, especially if you license your distro under a company name, of the company can take the fall but since you are the only employee it doesnt make to much of a difference(To an extent, it is much more complicated) However for larger companies like Canoical or Novell or RedHat they have to be more careful which is why things like that are more of an issue with them. Probably much closer to 50 percent but you are right, many distros do this. However many do much more on top of this as well. All depends on the distro. Much more than that actually, but the reason is for speed. That is why e17 is faster than either Gnome or KDE on my machine. I cant give you the technical details myself as I am not intimatly familiar with their code, however I can assure you there is this method to their madness, as I looked up that question myself at one point Seablade

If you like PCLinuxOS please use it. It didn't have what I wanted. Sorry not good enough.

If it crashes when someone does something you dont expect, it still crashes. It is the programmers job(Or maintainers in this case) to ensure that it can recover from things like this. In other words, you should fix this if you are truly aiming for a good user friendly(Which from pasts posts you seem to put an emphasis on with not wanting to touch a commandline) distro that does everything you say.

Whether or not the installer actually crashes, freezes, or prints out hamster dance on screen, the question is is that what it is supposed to do? The answer when dealing with an installer should probably be no. In which case it is a bug(Or if you are in the windows world 'feature') that should be corrected and not ignored for quality software.

Seablade

I am not for or against QT or GTK at all. I have both in my OS and both will stay. I know that GTK is nice to program with if you not sure what WM you will have. I was going to write an app myself and use GTK because I will want it for use wether or not I use KDE. I'm not inlove with or backing KDE it just suite my perpose. I like to see different people do different things. I just didn't like Gnome.

I know why Enlightenment does that but it does make things suck when you want to use your own wallpaper or Icons. I can do it but it's a pain.

yes it does. i used to use PCLOS a while. they have had all those things out of the box. and unlike you Tex is not an asshole! (some other developers i talked to that are nice people: Kris from PC-BSD, and Kano from Kanotix, both of which are top notch desktop oses btw. ) and btw, my partition did exist. when i tried installing Myah I just broke my ubuntu (i was trying to do something extremely stupid on it) so i had 3 partitions, /dev/hda1 resierfs to be mounted as / , /dev/hda2 ext3 to be mounted as /boot and /dev/hda3 swap to be used as swap.

It's just a simple script that installs into a partition you pick. I ofcouse got it from slax and modified it. I will be working on a GTK version of my own very soon to make it better. But it's just simple. It doesn't CRASH what happed was you picked a partition that is not ready for it and installed. And it installs into nothing. Not a crash it's called "Error Between Keyboard and Chair" You may have herd that before. It's like if I try to open firefox and go to a site that doesn't exist. It's not a crash. Just means I'm stupid is all.

PCLinuxOS I have used and it does not do what Myah OS does. But it does better then alot. But I don't like Mandrake, not that I have something against them it's just I found that there Harddrake program get's in my way. But still it cann't do what Myah does so sorry not sure how you think it does. You sould try them both again.

Also the Myah OS installer doesn't list other OS's this sucks I know. But you can always add them into also. And I am working on that aswell. But I'm not an enginer so I have to have some credit for just having an installer.

the partiotions were there, and as far as i could tell properly mounted. i believe it even went as far as installing the /var folder (i dont exactly remember which one it was), but then it just died out on me and didn't install anything past that.

and can you list some things that myah does that pclinuxos doesn't? you keep saying that it just doesn't do it....provide some solid examples!

Yeah full Media support in the Webbrowser.
DVD support.
Internet Radio.
I can go on and on.

Also why didn't you post on my forum about it. I try to help every single person who asks. Also other there will. Bit I personally see to it that everyone who tries get the most I can possible give them.

i hate to join millions of forums. i am only a member here, misticriver (for iriver owners), ubuntuforums, archlinux forums, and aximsite (for dell axim pocketpc owners).

generally i dont like bloated administration tools (Yast) but I think DraxTools in PCLOS are done very nicely.

i couldnt find a list of included packages and dont feel like booting the livecd right now, but insternet radio, all you need is xmms or bmp or rhymbox or amarok and a web browser to find the stream you're looking for. nothing special required really. dvd support, if not in by default simply means you need to type "apt-get install libdvdcss" into terminal and you'll have it. and i am sure there are some firefox plugins by default, doing "apt-get install mplayer mozplugger xpdf flashplugin" will get you those that are not in my default.

my problem with you is not that you're trying to include everything and the kitchen sink in your distro, its that you downplay all the other distros as inferior just because they dont share your vision and like to do things otherwise.

and then there are users like me, be we Arch or Gentoo users, we simply want a solid base that we can tweak to our liking from the ground up just so that we can AVOID having every program on the face of the earth installed to avoid the bloat.

There it is sports fans what I was waiting for. He's a Gentoo user. The last time I met a Gentoo user he talled just the same. Had crazy Ideas like linux wasn't gameing system. Plus all the other things your saying.


I am NOT making a bloated system. I'm making a HOME user system. Just that. To do Home User things. Not needing to install something that should already be there. Bloated would be me adding things people don't generally need. I only want things in my standard disk that is needed for every day use. Where did you get the Idea that it was bloated just because it has everthing a home user needs?

And just installing those packages is not going to do much at all. Plus mozilla mplayer plugin you listed will do nothing with firefox at all. No sorry your still not close. And I don't want to sit there and be thinking of what right away I have to add to be usable. I don't want to have to MAKE it work.

And it's the same size as almost every other distro so no bloating. the kitchen sink would be server tools and stuff a home user doesn't need. I'm spacific in being a home user OS.

Anyway don't complain about my installer if you didn't even ask for help. And are not smart enough to figure it out.

You can compare me to any distro you want I just think it's funny. What you have to do to them to make them usable. And how many people they have there making a Plain Jane Debian system.

Anyway Gentoo man LOL I was just thinking you sounded crazy like a gentoo person. That's so funny.

And it does not have Full internet Media Support and those files will not get you there. But I'm guessing you never been there and don't know enough to miss it so who cares.
It does not have full DVD support and mplayer doesn't do a good job anyway.
It does not have internet radio support and that is funny because it's GTK something you thought I didn't like for some reason.
And it's doens't do everything esle I want I'm not going to list everying and you can tell me how it will work.

Tell me this 1 think will it play "Code Red: Battle For Earth" I would be supprised since Myah OS is the only existing place because there is no linux version ever released at all. Or the Hunted Chronicle 1. or Nehahra or or or I can go on. I have lots of stuff that not only isn't available on any distor but it's available for linux at all.

So please go Play with Gentoo or PClinux or Debian. You keep trying to sell me on them, why don't use use them. Why didn't you put the CD in and stay with it. Why bounce around? Because your not satisfide. None could satisfy me so I made one that would. And I have used it full time ever since. I'm very happy with it.