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Athlon XP Processors in Sager laptops?

post #1 of 17
2/16/03 at 9:57pm
Thread Starter 
This is something I've been wondering ever since I came across the Sager line of laptops.

Is there any chance that Sager/Clevo will switch to Athlon XP Processors or atleast offer them as an option. I have always gotten better performance out of Athlons versus their Pentium counterparts. Plus, they are generally much cheaper than Intel's models.

I am wondering about the heat difference (if there is any) between the two or the comparison in how much power they use. Compaq has recently released a laptop with the Athlon XP 2000+ processor in it for a price a few hundred dollars less than a similar laptop with a Pentium chip.

Is there any chance that Sager/Clevo will go to an Athlon chip anytime soon? Thanks for any information.

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post #2 of 17
2/16/03 at 10:05pm
Athlon chips use a lot more power per performance and as such produce more heat. Also, if you want top of the line, Pentium is the way to go right now. All benchmarks I've seen point to the highest P4 outperforming the highest Athlon. In addition, the price difference between the two processors has gotten significantly smaller as time goes by... The newest Athlons aren't all that much cheaper than the newest P4s... (of course, the hyperthreading one is an exception).
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post #3 of 17
2/16/03 at 10:46pm
What if you compare the highest xp mobile to an equivalently priced p4 / p4 mobile?

Though, as far as using desktop amd xp chips in laptop goes, I REALLY don't think its about to happen, as I have a pretty good cooling system (on my dekstop), and my xp 1800+ runs at abobut 40 degrees (c) when at full load (and it got up to 60 when the fan got unplugged).

So one could say 50 degrees (c) would be about where notebook cooling would come in (at full load), and they probably wouldn't sell laptops that could get that hot.

XP mobiles are cool though, however since they are so cheap, they are only used in budget systems :-( . It would be great if sager started using them, after inital design change costs, we could end up with laptops that are just as fast (though may last not quite as long / produce a bit more heat), but they would be A LOT cheaper. (ex: desktop chips: xp 1700+ : $50, p4 1.7 ghz: $120)

As for power usage, who here bought a sager because it would last on the battery?
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post #4 of 17
2/16/03 at 11:02pm
Thread Starter 
See that's what I was thinking. There truly IS a huge difference in price between the two processors and most tests even show the Athlons beating Pentiums. It's all about brand names I guess.

I would really like to hear from PCTORQUE on this one if it is even remotely possible. That is, if time permits.
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post #5 of 17
2/16/03 at 11:11pm
Oh I wasn't supporting it or opposing it :-) I was just writing what I've seen thus far. Even tomshardware wrote in a review I read a while back that the price difference between Athlons and Pentiums was closing to the point that it wasn't a huge benefit to Athlons. I've never used one, though, so I can't really comment on actual performance. I can just say that I'm loving this 3.06 with HT... and with the next version of Windows (codenamed Longhorn), it's being targeted specifically at HT... To that end, Microsoft's alpha of it doesn't even run on Athlon processors, lol. OBVIOUSLY, the final release won't have that problem, but I just think it's an indication of the direction of the Windows operating system (hyperthreading). Time will tell, though.
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post #6 of 17
2/16/03 at 11:30pm
A 3.06 processor is a lot of money (609 on pricewatch), I could easily build an respectable computer for the cost of a 3.06 ghz processor.

Tomshardware is very intel-biased, so whatever they say is kind of meaningless.

Not everyone buys absolute top of the line, and for them, AMD is perfect. However, if you do that in a laptop, that means you won't be getting a good laptop. The fact that you have an amd processor in a laptop automatically makes it a budget laptop, and it shouldn't be like that. Cheaper doesn't have to mean worse.
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post #7 of 17
2/16/03 at 11:43pm
Thread Starter 
Intersting point there...
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post #8 of 17
2/17/03 at 12:11am
I asked the same question last week... seems like a lot of pro intel people on this board... not a problem
I guess that would be the case since Sager's only ship with intel... AMD needs more marketing....

To Sager, I guess it would actually cost MORE money to sell both an intel and AMD notebook. Would it mean more sales? Better performance -- No. I love AMD's but I'll purchase a Sager notebook with "intel inside".
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post #9 of 17
2/17/03 at 12:30am
Well I think part of the problem is AMD has abandoned the mobile segment for the time being so they can concentrate on the desktop segment. Of course this allows intel to completely dominate the mobile market with P3,P4,P4M,Banias...etc
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post #10 of 17
2/17/03 at 1:19am
Quote:
Originally posted by jtmat
I asked the same question last week... seems like a lot of pro intel people on this board... not a problem
I guess that would be the case since Sager's only ship with intel... AMD needs more marketing....

To Sager, I guess it would actually cost MORE money to sell both an intel and AMD notebook. Would it mean more sales? Better performance -- No. I love AMD's but I'll purchase a Sager notebook with "intel inside".
No, AMD doesn't need more marketing, they need a better product. People alike are willing to pay a premium for the latest and greatest and most people see the highest clock speed and think its the fastest so i will get it.
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post #11 of 17
2/17/03 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by Wisefish
No, AMD doesn't need more marketing, they need a better product. People alike are willing to pay a premium for the latest and greatest and most people see the highest clock speed and think its the fastest so i will get it.
I don't agree with you... AMD has a good product. I've used AMD products for years and never had any problems. Clock speed for clock speed AMD IS the better product.

I'm off this topic since I don't want to get into the whole INTEL/AMD argument... again....

/off post.
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post #12 of 17
2/17/03 at 2:05am

AMD is good

I have used desktops with AMD processors and they performed fairly well. One thing I can attest is that I had installed water cooling just for the heck of it. When I transferred this set up to my P4-rig I noticed the Athlon getting really hot compared to the P4 (when the p4 didnt have the cooler rig).

I dont know if this heat issue will translate to mobile processors but I dont think it will be 'cool' to have an athlon in your Laptop at the moment. If they come up with some way to make them run cooler then it will be great because they are a LOT cheaper than Intel CPU's.

Give me the choice and i'd get a cheaper albeit cooler Athlon.
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post #13 of 17
2/22/03 at 10:32pm

Athlon vs P-4

Hands down the Athlon will smoke the P-4, if the systems are built as identical as possible. As a veteran Computer Consultant, building boxes since 8088's (XT's, pre-286 for you chillin'), AMD has always been faster for less $$.

The heat may be an issue in laptops, but more so, it may be power consumption. AMD has been much more demanding of power supply output specs than Intel. I have a 1800+ Athlon in my desktop and I put this huge copper heat-sink hi-pro fan on it to keep it cool. The damn thng is so loud, it's nerve-rattling. I use a utility to slow it down & monitor CPU temp. I run a rocky steady 65C w/ just with the heat sink.....as I recall, the upper-limit is 80C.

If it can be done and stable, Sager will do it. That's why we love 'em.


out
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post #14 of 17
2/23/03 at 2:04am

Re: Athlon vs P-4

Quote:
Originally posted by geod
Hands down the Athlon will smoke the P-4, if the systems are built as identical as possible. As a veteran Computer Consultant, building boxes since 8088's (XT's, pre-286 for you chillin'), AMD has always been faster for less $$.

The heat may be an issue in laptops, but more so, it may be power consumption. AMD has been much more demanding of power supply output specs than Intel. I have a 1800+ Athlon in my desktop and I put this huge copper heat-sink hi-pro fan on it to keep it cool. The damn thng is so loud, it's nerve-rattling. I use a utility to slow it down & monitor CPU temp. I run a rocky steady 65C w/ just with the heat sink.....as I recall, the upper-limit is 80C.

If it can be done and stable, Sager will do it. That's why we love 'em.


out
You really cannot go clock-for-clock anymore (if we did, Apple would love it - not to mention Alpha fans).

I like AMD, and they are my first choice, generally, when building systems, however, Intel "woke up" and has soundly trumped them this past year.

Of course, this changes, and it's a good thing for consumers that this is so, but I cannot in good faith recommend an AMD system to someone wanting the best system, a mobile system, or a business desktop (this may change with nForce2 chipset... I'm still waiting for long-term results).

Intel's chips are better, by comparisson, but AMD has some tricks left up their sleeves (I hope). I'd hate to see them leave the CPU market.

AMD's are perfect for gamers who do not need the cutting/bleeding edge, and who are budget-conscious.

-myrkat
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post #15 of 17
2/23/03 at 2:12am
Quote:
Hands down the Athlon will smoke the P-4, if the systems are built as identical as possible. As a veteran Computer Consultant, building boxes since 8088's (XT's, pre-286 for you chillin'), AMD has always been faster for less $$.
This is simply not true.. unless... you are comparing prices.. or you are comparing MHz to MHz... And even the AMD Barton is just as expensive as the P4 3.06HT. And the P4 3.06HT IS MUCH faster than the Barton... heck, the Barton can hardly keep up with the AMD 2800+ in most apps... (in some the Barton does excel, but not most: 3.06 smokes it be a good bit, as does the 2800+).
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post #16 of 17
2/23/03 at 6:42am

Re: Athlon vs P-4

Quote:
Originally posted by geod
Hands down the Athlon will smoke the P-4, if the systems are built as identical as possible. As a veteran Computer Consultant, building boxes since 8088's (XT's, pre-286 for you chillin'), AMD has always been faster for less $$.

The heat may be an issue in laptops, but more so, it may be power consumption. AMD has been much more demanding of power supply output specs than Intel. I have a 1800+ Athlon in my desktop and I put this huge copper heat-sink hi-pro fan on it to keep it cool. The damn thng is so loud, it's nerve-rattling. I use a utility to slow it down & monitor CPU temp. I run a rocky steady 65C w/ just with the heat sink.....as I recall, the upper-limit is 80C.

If it can be done and stable, Sager will do it. That's why we love 'em.


out
Um, that's not quite right. It is the Pentium that will smoke every "equivalently" marketed Athlon. Check the new CNET reviews. The P4 3GHz smokes ALL of the Athlon 3000+ systems.

Cheers.
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post #17 of 17
2/23/03 at 7:38am
also, you have to realize that AMD always optimizes for the previous generation Intel chip -- right now Athlon is kicking ass on things compiled for a Penitum III -- But even the best compiler ( icc , intel's compiler) isn't even fully optimized for the newest P4. It has 8 128bit registers and 114 new instructions set. (part of SSE2)

I'm sure AMD has something comparable -- I'm just not that well read right now. (can anyone comment on this?) ... . It is awesome that we have two competitors pushing the limits.. Also, some of the FPGA based devices are looking promising.
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