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Please Help. Need some notebook advice.

post #1 of 22
11/14/02 at 4:11pm
Thread Starter 
Argh...I'm so tired of trying to decide which notebook to go with. First of all, this notebook would mainly be used for gaming, DVDs, and web development work. I'd say that it will probably run on AC power about 75% of the time, but I'd like to be able to play games or watch DVD movies when I travel so I definitely want a dual-battery option. I bought an Inspiron 8200 recently and was thrilled with it when I first got it. However, their UltraSharp screen with the Radeon 9000 produced some fairly substantial banding problems which were really noticeable in games. This is a hot topic over at Dell's forums - everyone seems to be having this problem. Other than that, I loved it. With dual batteries, I got over five hours of battery life, and even with the Mobile P4 2.0 GHz processor, my 3D mark was near 7000. I decided to sell it though because the banding problem was very irritating.

Now, I'm trying to decide on something else. I'm looking at either the Sager 5660 (about $2400 with the 2.8 GHz processor, UXGA, and dual batteries) or the Toshiba 5205-s703 (can be purchased for around $2500 online).

The Sager seems nice, but I've heard that the screens aren't up to par with the Dells. Also, it's befuddling to me why the 3D Mark on a 2.8 GHz processor would be lower than my Dell with the 2.0 Mobile processor. They both use the Radeon 9000 chip. Any input on this? What do 5660 owners think of their machines? How's the battery life with dual batteries, and what are your 3D-mark scores?

The Toshiba just came out recently. It has P4-M processor 2.0GHz, 15" UXGA 'theatre' Display, USB 2.0 ports, a DVD-RW drive, and uses the new GF460 video chipset at 64 MB. However, it has a 4,200 RPM hard drive (big turn-off for me) and XP home (I really want professional, but worry about formatting the drive for risk of driver/hardware problems). While the DVD-RW is nice, I'm not sure I'd use it much -- at least in the near future. However, it also has a very nice sound system.

Can someone please give me some advice? I'm really sick of looking.
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post #2 of 22
11/14/02 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Also, it's befuddling to me why the 3D Mark on a 2.8 GHz processor would be lower than my Dell with the 2.0 Mobile processor. They both use the Radeon 9000 chip. Any input on this? What do 5660 owners think of their machines? How's the battery life with dual batteries, and what are your 3D-mark scores?
Here's a link to some 5660 video card benchmarks, including some overclocking.

http://sagerforums.com/forums/showth...s=&threadid=48

Where did you get the idea that 3D mark scores for the 2.8 Ghz 5660 are lower than for the Dell 8200? All the 3D mark scores for the 5660 that I've seen so far are at ~least~ 7000, w/o overclocking.
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post #3 of 22
11/14/02 at 4:32pm
I find myself in the same dilema as you are.
I'm debating between the sager NP5660 or either the S205-S703
or 1955-S803 from toshiba.
One of the things that i like about the S205-S703 is the sound system and from the 1955-S803 is the detachable keyboard and larger screen (with lower resolution )
I like the faster processor speeds from sager and the radeon 9000 and not to mention a gig of ram for about the same price.
I don't really mind battery life because i'll have it plugged most of the time at school, but i'd get the dual batteries anyway.
I'm not so fond of the GeForce4 460 Go on the Toshibas so at this point i'm leaning towards the sager.

Bottom line:

Sager: You can get a faster CPU, more memory, better graphics card. I'm not sure on the quality of their UXGA screen and the "low" benchmark thing makes me wonder.

Toshiba: sweet sound system, screen and touchpad (S205-703), 16" LCD detachable keyboard!(1955-S803)
Lower speed CPUs less memory and GeForce4 460 Go uhmm...

I'll just flip a coin...
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post #4 of 22
11/14/02 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, so it seems like the Sager barely beats the Dell in 3dMark scores. I guess it seems like there would be a fairly significant improvement when you jump from a 2.0 to a 2.8 GHz processor, but I probably just don't understand the test well enough.

I wish I could find some benchmarks of the GF460 chipset. It's slightly newer than the Radeon 9000 and the features appear to indicate that it should be faster, but I haven't heard anything about it at all.

I ruled out the 1955 model from Toshiba because it has the GF440 chipset which is not nearly as good as the ATI 9000. Might be no big deal to you, but gaming is my forte, so it's important to me.
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post #5 of 22
11/14/02 at 6:01pm
The reason there isn't a big jump from 2 to 2.8Ghz in the video scores is because the video board is the bottleneck. A 2Ghz CPU is fast enough to push the card to its limits in most games (though some like UT2003 tend to be more CPU bound and the 2.8 should give you some sort of a boost).
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post #6 of 22
11/14/02 at 6:13pm
I believe 3d Mark is more of a measurement of 3d performance that is dependent more on your video card. The reason you see similar scores is because both laptops have the same card.

Try running a benchmark that uses the processor more, I believe Sandra (???) benchmarks would be better for that comparison.

Btw, I'm not sure about the above its just what I've heard. I don't want to be spreading any incorrect information.
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post #7 of 22
11/14/02 at 6:20pm
The default speeds on the R9000 got 7300 on the sager as opposed to 6800 on the dell you mentioned... considering they have the same graphics card (and the processor speed really doesn't improve much on this benchmark), I'd say 500 is a big jump... and even if the processor difference mattered, it's still a big jump. You have to keep in mind also that the only substantial difference between the 2.8Ghz P4 and the 2Ghz P4m is the .8Ghz... the bus speed will have no big effect since the memory is maxed at 266 anyway (thus 400 would perform the same as 566 or anything else above 266; isn't that right??).
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post #8 of 22
11/15/02 at 1:49am
Quote:
You have to keep in mind also that the only substantial difference between the 2.8Ghz P4 and the 2Ghz P4m is the .8Ghz...
Of course the .8 difference, being 800MHz, is actually a big difference. 2 years ago we were crazy about those 800Mhz
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post #9 of 22
11/15/02 at 2:54am
(obviously) By my post I only meant that there isn't a big difference between mobile and desktop P4s besides the clock speed. (assuming the mobile is running at max).
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post #10 of 22
11/15/02 at 11:48am

Satellite?

For those of you thinking about the Toshiba Satellite series, just a quick tip:

I have been there and I'm glad I'm rid of it too.

A used to have a Satellite 5005-S504 (Geforce etc).
Normal work would be just fine. Gaming quickly became a big No-No. Playing UT, the laptop would freeze within half an hour.
Even worse, during last summer, the laptop would simply shutdown within 5 minutes due to heat problems.

The laptop had been for repairs to Toshiba 3 times, not fixing anything.
At Yahoo!-groups a group of Satellite owners teamed up and found out that more than 500 people where having the same problems,... not only with the 5005, but with the Satellite series in general.
After reading their issues and how they got their money back from Toshiba, I gave it try too and got my money back (after 4 weeks, with help of www.bbb.org).

For now I learned my lesson: stay away from the Satellites ...
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post #11 of 22
11/15/02 at 12:13pm
Thanks for the info, i have now made the desition to go with the sager NP5660
Now i just have to decide where to get it from... Who do you guys recommend?
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post #12 of 22
11/15/02 at 12:20pm

5660 @ PCTorque?

I have made the same decission, going for the 5660.
Since the guys at PCTorque helped me pretty good, and pricewise one of the cheapest, I think I'll go for them ...
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post #13 of 22
11/15/02 at 12:32pm
Regarding the Dell Inspiron color banding problem I believe it is being addressed and a dell rep mentioned it would be fixed in the next bios/driver update.

The toshiba satellites have some problems. The most notable is the overheating problem. Simply do a search on toshiba satellite overheating and you'll encounter a slew of articles pertaining to this. I believe this has also been addressed however I would be wary.

For those of you going with the sager I think this board provides the best information for that and you should definitely soak in as much information as you can to find the benefits and any shortcomings that it may have depending on what you plan to use it for.
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post #14 of 22
11/16/02 at 1:41am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice guys, though I'm still basically stuck on which one to buy. It seems like all three choices (Dell, Toshiba, Sager) just have one or two problems that keep me from wanting to buy it.

The Toshiba only has a 4,200 RPM Hard Drive, no ATI9000 (though I would expect that the GeForce 460 Go chipset is pretty close), potential overheating problems, and Win XP Home (which is a fairly big deal to me because I need to be able to network it at work), but it has a DVD-RW, a great sound system, a killer touch pad, integrated wireless, USB 2.0, and looks great.

The Sager 5660 has everything I want, except the battery life is only 2 hours with dual batteries when performing hardware-intensive tasks. Plus, you have to at least consider the possibility of heating problems when you have this much desktop hardware in a notebook.

The Dell has the banding problems, though they might be addressed soon, worrisome tech support, anchor-like weight, ugly design, and a wait time of two weeks. However, they get terrific battery life, have the UltraSharp screen, no heating problems and no junk software that you'd just want removed anyway.

What's a gamer/DVD watcher to do?
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post #15 of 22
11/16/02 at 2:27am
I have recent experience with the Dell and the Toshiba. I ordered a Dell 8200 which arrived with a motherboard problem that caused a whining noise that fluctuated with the processor voltage. Not good. Dell sent me a replacement that was DOA. Didn't work at all.

The notebook was pretty good, except the touchpad didn't have very good resolution. It was a bit jumpy. Tech support took about 40minutes on hold each time I called.

After getting Dell to pick up both 8200s and give me my money back, I got the 5205-s703. The sound system is decent, but not as good as my old Compaq 1800. The subwoofer still rattles (a common complaint about the 5105s) at moderate volumes. My video card also seems to be defective because it has a problem with refresh rates with certain sites (www.toshiba.com, www.itrca.com and others with the same pattern of tightly-spaced lines). Toshiba also told me that it comes with a 5400rpm drive (it doesn't), so they are already willing to give me a new system at a reduced price. Toshiba tech support is as clueless as Dell's, but there hasn't been any hold times when I've called them. There is no overheating problem with the 5205 and there wasn't one with the 5105 either. The 5005 is a very old model and a POS.

Let me know if you have any specific questions on them. I'm still looking for something else, but only Fujitsu, Toshiba, IBM and Dell have wide viewing angle, high-contrast UXGA screens. The IBM doens't have a touchpad, the Fujitsu is too expensive, I've tried both the Dell and the Toshiba and have been less than impressed.
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post #16 of 22
11/16/02 at 2:43am
Thread Starter 
Wow, sorry to hear of your string of bad luck. But like so many PCs, there are probably hundreds if not thousands of machines that work perfectly for every one that is bad. You probably just had bad luck.

I know the Toshiba only has a 4200 RPM drive which is a pretty big issue to me. If you had any opportunity to play any recent games with the Toshiba, I'd like to hear your experiences. I'd also like to get your opinion on what you think of the screen for games/DVDs. I read a lot of issues at the Toshiba forums too about people having trouble with the DVD-RW drive. Did you burn any DVDs?

Thanks in advance.
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post #17 of 22
11/16/02 at 2:52am
Really bad luck, compounded by really long wait times and really terrible tech support. Going through the DellTalk forum found a LOT of people having the exact same problem with their motherboard as I was having.

I haven't played any games, but the 460go is slightly better performing than the R9000, though the R9000 has better power management (longer battery life).

I have heard about problems with the external Toshiba DVD burners, but no complaints about the 5205 internal burners.

I'm away on work right now, so I haven't had a chance to burn any DVDs. When I get home in two weeks, I'll try it out. I'll also get Toshiba to send me a new unit along with a new 30 day trial period. If it works perfectly, I'll keep it. If anything is wrong, I'll just order a new laptop from someone else just before Christmas.

Why won't Clevo step up to the plate and offer a high-quality UXGA screen? I also liked that Dell and Toshiba offer warranties that cover everything (drops, spills, everything).
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post #18 of 22
11/16/02 at 7:08am

Battery life

Just a note here;

The battery life on my Toshiba Satellite 5005 was app. 1.5 Hrs with normal Office applications. When doing some more intensive stuff like burning a CDR or gaming, battery life would drop down significantly below 1 Hr.
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post #19 of 22
11/16/02 at 1:23pm
Again, the 5005 is a VERY old model. The 5205 gets about 3:40 with the standard battery and over 5hrs with the second battery (I don't have a second battery to verify that time). Yes, I've checked it. Toshiba really came through in that area after all of the complaints from the 5005 and 5105.

The 5205 comes with the HD, battery and DVD-RW installed. It has a "style bay" that comes empty. You can use it for either a floppy drive, second battery, second HD, second optical drive, etc. It also comes with built-in WiFi and a SD reader, if that's important to you.
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post #20 of 22
11/16/02 at 1:29pm
Thread Starter 
Tennistrainer, would you mind running MadOnion's 3D mark on that laptop? I'd be really interested to find out the score. I suspect it will be lower than the ATI9000 since the GeF 460 doesn't support DirectX8.1, but it should still perform well for games. If only the hard drive was 5,400 RPM...
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