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News update

post #1 of 18
2/17/03 at 8:14pm
Thread Starter 
Another NEWS update for you regulars that never make it over to read the news update forum.
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post #2 of 18
2/17/03 at 8:16pm
Can't wait to see some with and without HT benchmarks for all sorts of apps,benches...etc to help clear the air a bit.
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post #3 of 18
2/17/03 at 9:02pm
Doesn't the app itself have be written to be HT enabled because there's specific hardware being addressed rather than passively taking advantage of it via the OS? I suspect the former has to be the case. If so, benchmark tests will likely be no different for many apps. On the other hand, it would be nice to be future-enabled now.

Multithreading has been around for a long time but that refers to the Windows OS rather than something the CPU (hardware) does.
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post #4 of 18
2/17/03 at 9:27pm
Partially correct. Multi-threading is when applications are written to take advantage of multiple processors or a single hyper-threading processor. Applications not optimized for multi-threading will see little benefit per se from HT. However, there is also multi-tasking - which we all do to some extent - running multiple applications simultaneously (many in the "background"). HT utilizes "idle" processor time to allow the single processor to do more than one thing at a time. Thus, there is a (modest) performance benefit to virtually any system with HT, and the benefit grows significantly with the use of applications written to take advantage of HT (or SMP).
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post #5 of 18
2/18/03 at 12:10am
Exactly...many of the benchmarks I've seen have shown improvements in some areas while less in others.

I'm also interested in seeing if this will have any impact on battery life.
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post #6 of 18
2/18/03 at 12:42am
I suspect it will have an impact on battery life. I am kinda irked on the fact that it will require a reload of the OS... I'll have to see what that entails because I don't want to lose the data I have on there already. Hopefully I can just reformat the Windows partition and leave the data partition alone (one of the benefits of keeping data separate from OS). Will a repair install be enough? Why is an OS reload required?
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post #7 of 18
2/18/03 at 12:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee
Doesn't the app itself have be written to be HT enabled because there's specific hardware being addressed rather than passively taking advantage of it via the OS?
No. With HT enabled, Windows simply sees your motherboard as having two CPUs - just as if you had an actual dual processor system. So apps that use multiple threads should see significant benefits, without having to be re-coded or -compiled to run on an HT system.

And, as has already been mentioned, even single-threaded apps can benefit, since pretty much anybody running Windows *is* running multiple applications at the same time, and HT will allow your single-threaded app to run "simultaneously" with the other apps that are running.

- Stu
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post #8 of 18
2/18/03 at 12:47am
Quote:
Originally posted by beebster83
I am kinda irked on the fact that it will require a reload of the OS... I'll have to see what that entails because I don't want to lose the data I have on there already. Hopefully I can just reformat the Windows partition and leave the data partition alone (one of the benefits of keeping data separate from OS). Will a repair install be enough? Why is an OS reload required?
I'll be a little surprised if that's true for Win2K or XP. Under NT4, to change from a single CPU system to a dual CPU (for example, when you added a 2nd CPU to a dual-proc mobo), you had to reload, because the kernels for single vs. dual processors were different, and NT setup loaded the correct one at install time.

But, under Win2K and (I assume) XP, it's just one kernel and if you have a dual processor mobo, you can add and remove a CPU at any time and the system will boot up and detect the number of processors and operate correctly. So, maybe the 8887 will work the same way.

Or maybe a real dual proc board tells W2K something different during setup than a single proc board, even if the dual only has one proc installed. In which case, maybe the 8887 mobo reports itself the same as a single proc board (with the current BIOS), and will report itself differently with the new BIOS.

- Stu
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post #9 of 18
2/18/03 at 4:36am
What was the final verdict regarding the 8886 and HT? Is this going to be possible or is it still in the air? Sorry if this has been covered. Thanks
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post #10 of 18
2/18/03 at 5:17am
from what i have read thru the forum it will not happen for the 8886
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post #11 of 18
2/18/03 at 8:52am
I'm going to get a 8887 with a 2.8 ghz CPU VERY soon (like possibly tommorow) and I would like to know whether the BIOS will be configured for hyperthreading (for future upgrades)

You know anything about whether the BIOS with a 2.8 ghz system is HT capable, Adam?
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post #12 of 18
2/18/03 at 9:24am
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure, but a guess would be yes it will be whether it be auto detect or a setting you can enable in the bios. If it isn't, you can always flash it to be.
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post #13 of 18
2/18/03 at 1:47pm
From what I've read it would require an OS reload so that the new bios gets its drivers installed in Windows, which apparently happens when windows is first installed. I'd REALLY like to know whether a repair install would be enough (because that redoes all drivers) or whether anything is needed at all for XP. I wish there was a definite way to check if HT IS enabled in XP... A benchmark utility like sandra may not show significant differences for its standard CPU tests... Of course, I will run benchmarks before and after the bios update. I may also just do a repair install to see if it enables HT (if there's a nice easy way to tell, lol).
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post #14 of 18
2/18/03 at 3:49pm
Thats true a full re-install would not be to fun since it took me almost a week to get my development environment set up on it.

I have everything I need rounded up now though, but it will still make for a lost weekend reloading everything.

Oh well, Guess I'll wait and see.
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post #15 of 18
2/18/03 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally posted by beebster83
I wish there was a definite way to check if HT IS enabled in XP
In Win2K, you can go into Task Manager to see if you have one or two CPUs. HT enabled shows up as two CPUs. Doesn't XP have an equivalent to the NT/W2K Task Manager?

- Stu
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post #16 of 18
2/18/03 at 7:21pm

the air that needs to be cleared

Quote:
Originally posted by StuartV666
No. With HT enabled, Windows simply sees your motherboard as having two CPUs - just as if you had an actual dual processor system. So apps that use multiple threads should see significant benefits, without having to be re-coded or -compiled to run on an HT system.

And, as has already been mentioned, even single-threaded apps can benefit, since pretty much anybody running Windows *is* running multiple applications at the same time, and HT will allow your single-threaded app to run "simultaneously" with the other apps that are running.

- Stu
from what I have read, this is incorrect. HT has some dynamically shared resources that can be monopolized by one thread or one app that is not designed for HT and thus slow down the system and make it perform worse than a comparable processor without HT, even if all but one of the running apps is designed for HT. thus, one bad apple can spoil the barrel. Dual processors do not suffer from this problem to the same degree because they have fewer shared resources. however, dual processors have their own problems that HT processors avoid. don't want to rehash all my posts on HT, so if you are interested in my rantings on the subject, just do a search on "hyperthreading" and you can be pointed to excellent articles on the subject, etc.

the value of HT, and the limitations thereon will soon be seen. until then, caution to those eager to pay huge cash to be an early adopter
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post #17 of 18
2/18/03 at 8:37pm
I agree... which is why I hope the new bios has an option to enable HT as opposed to just permanently doing so. If it just just permanently do it, then oh well... I don't know what I'll do with it. Hopefully the performance loss for non-HT apps won't be bad... I wouldn't mind if it still performed like a 2.8 GHz processor, lol, just as long as the apps with HT would work significantly better. :-)

XP does have task manager... I forgot that HT would show up as two processors. I'll have to check that out :-)
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post #18 of 18
2/18/03 at 9:24pm
Wooot , this is awesome , even though I dont own a 8887 Im glad to see you guys that do own one soon to get HT enabled. That means alot of test and comparisons of different software and hardware , this will be good info for the guys that own the 5660 model systems that have the 3.06. Hmmm hopefully the 5660 gets the go next ,anyways Im excited to read all of you guys comments on HT once you get it enabled.
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