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Overclocked E1705/9400 7900 GS Benchmark Results - Page 22

post #421 of 741
9/14/06 at 10:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolda
i had a big post that gave me an error, any way, i will try to post it in short words, After testing i figured out that the Voltage mod is not necesary, the card will use energy depending on the clocks, just like CPU, i ran mine at v575/575 and normal 575/575 and the both used the same energy and gave same 3d mark results, try it for yourself you dond believe me. The energy consumption depnds on the A not the voltage, that is why the 90w Ac adapter and the 130w AC adapter use th same voltage and diferent A (right?) I must set clocks so, that one (CPU or GPU) reaches less than 70c while the other reaches 80c or more. Both at full load and full "clocks" reach 80c :S ten my AC adapter dies. Temperature is the best way to determinate power cunsumption, becuase i have not yet found some App that can do it. I still cant run the T7400 with the overclocked GS at clocks higher than 500. Both, GPU and CP reach 80c and after a while the 90w AC adapter locks itself. Crystal CPU id has a good monitor utulity, just like right mark cpu utility. Rdigital, have you tried to run super pi and ati tool at the same time to see for how long will the 90W AC adapter last,with CPU and GPU at full load?
The only question I have for you is stability of the system. When I OC on stock voltage, I can only run it at 470/1100 before I get artifacts in ATI Tool. When I up the voltage, it is stable and ATI Tool detects no artifacts -- however the temp goes up as expected. So have you run ATI Tool to see how stable it is at 575/1150 without the volt mod? And what are your temps. Anyway, not doubting you, just wondering how you are able to keep it stable without the voltage mod --maybe the Merom processor? Have a good one.
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post #422 of 741
9/15/06 at 10:08pm
because you are using the boot iso they told you to, dont raise the volatge raise the GPU clock to 550, without raising the voltage, and you will see amazing results. The GPU clock must keep up to the memory clock or you will get artifacts. these card cant go over 1250 without artifacts becuase the Memory is a big draw back, the gpu can on the other hand go up to 695. my temps are the same with as without the volt mod, there is no difference, i just dont like raising voltages for fun lol. I belive that the cards energy consumptios is calculated like this: P = V x A. the card will allways use the same energy at the same clocks, that means tha lowering the voltage affects the amps that it uses, in the end its the same, no voltage mod or voltage mod, you will see the same temps, that is strange, but safer.
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post #423 of 741
9/15/06 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolda
because you are using the boot iso they told you to, dont raise the volatge raise the GPU clock to 550, without raising the voltage, and you will see amazing results. The GPU clock must keep up to the memory clock or you will get artifacts. these card cant go over 1250 without artifacts becuase the Memory is a big draw back, the gpu can on the other hand go up to 695. my temps are the same with as without the volt mod, there is no difference, i just dont like raising voltages for fun lol. I belive that the cards energy consumptios is calculated like this: P = V x A. the card will allways use the same energy at the same clocks, that means tha lowering the voltage affects the amps that it uses, in the end its the same, no voltage mod or voltage mod, you will see the same temps, that is strange, but safer.
That's not exactly true, wattage (power) is essentially the amount of energy in joules that must be dissipated per second, and the equation for power is P=I*V, or more expanded P=V^2/R. Since the resistance change in the GPU is negligible the only variable for heat production is the voltage, so when you increase the voltage the heat that needs to be dissipated will increase by the total voltage squared divided by the resistance of the GPU, so the voltage directly affects the heat produced by the GPU. And even a small change in voltage, since it's squared, will have a large impact on the heat production.
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post #424 of 741
9/15/06 at 10:52pm
not only dissipated, but used by the card, the point is to give more energy to make it more stable, in this case there is no need for stabbility becuase the card can manage the clocks at lower voltages... or is it that the voltage stands for something else? Voltage mods are just bull sh i t as far as i can see. But this is really a riddle :P
but what I cant understand is why lowering the volotage has no effect on my 3d mark results!!!!
i will try flashing 575/1150 in the 3d low power settings, then run ati tool from the battery while monitoring the battery discharge ratio in Watts with right mark cpu utility. if i get the same discharge ratio on AC with same CPU multiplier and power saving settings, i believe we will figure out how the voltage mod affects the power usage.
anyon else has any ideas?
I will cunsult the oracle.... (wikipedia) to see if there is any info about how video cards manage energy (W ; A and V)
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post #425 of 741
9/15/06 at 11:24pm
P=V^2/R is ohm's law, the more voltage though a set resistance results in more current, therefore more heat. The reason you have to increase the voltage to increase the clockspeed is because transistors in GPUs function on gate capacitance -the more voltage the faster the charge/discharge of each gate.
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post #426 of 741
9/15/06 at 11:44pm
now have you tried using your current max settings on 1v? you will be amazed, there is no need to increase it, not even for game benchmarks with fraps. Now my question is how can the same clocks be achieved with the same voltage? the transistors (not sure where or for what pourpuse) in these case are having no effect on performace or stability.
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post #427 of 741
9/15/06 at 11:51pm
I have tried to reach my current clocks of 675/1200 and my card would begin to artifact around 600+, the increased voltage is not needed for every transistor, but to ensure every transistor can reach the frequency. The default voltage is 1.2V for the 7900 GS, so a 0.04V overvolt is not very large and you may not notice the heat increase, but it's there.
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post #428 of 741
9/16/06 at 1:00am
the default voltage is 1v and 2.4 is a lot i am benchmarking so i will post the pics soon. Do you hae any link to guide that explains this better? (why to overvolt the video card)
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post #429 of 741
9/16/06 at 1:20am
The default 2D is 1V, if you check the VID mode you will see the voltage can go up to 1.24 in throttle or 3D mode, flashing the GPU for 1.24V will simply force the GPU to that voltage. A 24% overvolt is nothing considering the desktop version of this card, which has the same core I might add, can be volted as high as 1.4V. The simplest explanation for overvolting is every transistor in the GPU needs a set amount of voltage to function at a specific clockspeed, raising that set voltage allows for a higher clockspeed. If you want to understand why just look up gate capacitance or MOSFET Formula.
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post #430 of 741
9/16/06 at 1:26am
check the rooms and see it for your self, the max allowed on stock roms (not only the one on the iso`s, is 1V for 2d 3d low voltage and 3d high.
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post #431 of 741
9/16/06 at 1:34am
Check the 'VID Mode', not the 'Exact Mode' those are just voltage identifiers, the VID is lower level and shows the actual voltages. And it really doesn't how much you overvolt as long as you stay within the bounds of heat constraints, also the memory will bottleneck far before overvolting reaches dangerous levels, and overvolting will provide no performance gain after the memory becomes the bottleneck. Just for clarification, voltage mods don't improve performance on equal clocks, but allow for much higher overclocking. If you really believe that overvolting provides no performance gains the why not try OC'ing to 675/1200 and see if your card is artifact free and benches as high as mine.
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post #432 of 741
9/16/06 at 2:29am
Here you have 3d mark 05 and the VID with riva tuner, for 1.24



Here you have it at 1V



It will not affect performance, nor quality of image both ran without artifacts, and ati tool gave same results, now i cant go over 612 in this GPU with 1.24v or 1v without having a major lock down. i believe i recieved a refurb cuz in my documents i had some pics of a familly :S and its kids.

The entire pourpose of this was to lower the power usage so i can use merom at 2.16GHZ. Now i get same performance and quality, what about battery life? I get same results too, and i have yet not been able to use the CPU at its full speed.
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post #433 of 741
9/16/06 at 2:51am
This has been very interesting -- especially after the images. However, why do I pick up artifacts when OC'ing to 470/1100 at stock voltage but not with it at 515/1100 at 1.24 using ATI Tool? Or does ATI Tool matter?

It seems that you had the better score at 1.00v. Now I am wondering whether I should drop the voltage down while mainting the same clock. Any thoughts???
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post #434 of 741
9/16/06 at 2:54am
I still don't exactly understand why you are concerned with overvolting, if you want both to run then just run prime95 and continually set the CPU voltage lower with RMClock and then do the same with ATI Tool and your GPU. Of course more voltage offers no performance gain at the same clockspeed. A Ford 351W has a lot more available power then a Honda EB, but they will be equally fast if they are both constrained to 60MPH, the advantage is in the possible top speed. Overvolting allows HIGHER OVERCLOCKS. If you are happy running at 600MHz then go ahead and undervolt all you want, as long as the system is stable you'll lose no performance. But don' claim that OV is BS just because you don't understand the purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yolda
the transistors (not sure where or for what pourpuse) in these case are having no effect on performace or stability.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, the performace of a GPU IS the performance of it's transistors. The 7900 GS is really just 278 Million transistors strung together.
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post #435 of 741
9/16/06 at 2:59am
Quote:
This has been very interesting -- especially after the images. However, why do I pick up artifacts when OC'ing to 470/1100 at stock voltage but not with it at 515/1100 at 1.24 using ATI Tool? Or does ATI Tool matter? It seems that you had the better score at 1.00v. Now I am wondering whether I should drop the voltage down while mainting the same clock. Any thoughts???
i said that the difference between the ratio memory/GPU is very important they should run at clocks that let their downcloks and upclocks match, if you give me data every minute but i can only recieve it every minute and a half, we have a problem dont we? or what about me asking you for data every 15 seconds and you not being able to answer on time? lol its a bad example but my english is very bad and thats the only thing i could come up with. lol
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post #436 of 741
9/16/06 at 3:00am
why would you like a higher overclock if you are getting lower results? ok i get what you mean now, i am sorry. I wanted to do something else, my inttention was not to mark how usless is for me overvolting, i wanted less power consumption, i gues this cards can go as high as they want to without overvolting, maybe desktops GPUs do need the extra voltage.
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post #437 of 741
9/16/06 at 3:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedimasterone1
This has been very interesting -- especially after the images. However, why do I pick up artifacts when OC'ing to 470/1100 at stock voltage but not with it at 515/1100 at 1.24 using ATI Tool? Or does ATI Tool matter?

It seems that you had the better score at 1.00v. Now I am wondering whether I should drop the voltage down while mainting the same clock. Any thoughts???

The key to OC'ing is finding the bottleneck. Since the memory is definately the bottleneck in the 7900 GS I would suggest OC'ing your Core as high as possible without artifacts, then take it down 20MHz and see if there is a performance difference. If there is then you can push it back to the limit or leave a nice buffer. However if there is no performance drop then continue to clock your Core down until you get a drop in score that's the critical point between the Memory bottleneck and the Core.

And believe me these cards have plenty of headroom for oveclocking and you will need to overvolt to reach the max. yolda, you settled for 600MHz, but I'm sure if you bump it to 650 or 675 you will have a large performance gain.
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post #438 of 741
9/16/06 at 3:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolda
i said that the difference between the ratio memory/GPU is very important they should run at clocks that let their downcloks and upclocks match, if you give me data every minute but i can only recieve it every minute and a half, we have a problem dont we? or what about me asking you for data every 15 seconds and you not being able to answer on time? lol its a bad example but my english is very bad and thats the only thing i could come up with. lol
That's not the way that the GPU works. Either the Core or the Memory is a bottleneck, they don't need to be synchronized since the only purpose of the memory is to push the maximum number of gigapixels to the Core. And the only purpose of the Core is to process and output the results, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Your data explanation is close, but the data doesn't dissappear it stacks, so everytime the slower of the two checks there is always data there, they don't need to be synchronized, just setup so that the fastest is only slightly faster then the bottleneck.
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post #439 of 741
9/16/06 at 3:13am
reaver, why is your score 8700 ish at 675!!!??? you should have owned jokers score a long time ago..... my bottleneck is the ram too, i cant rise it over 1200, i will try different timmings now with nbiteditor, i am also researching the locked pipelines, it seems that they are not unlockable from the nvstrap driver, but there is hope to modify the maskingnfrom the bios. but it is just too risky. I will go with timmings first. What are your temps at full load after 20 minutes of atitool with the newer testing config?
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post #440 of 741
9/16/06 at 3:14am
Quote:
That's not the way that the GPU works
nope it is not, and i said that i liked those configurations becuase they DO give better performance.
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