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NLE Laptop: Need some opinions.

post #1 of 18
6/13/06 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 
I am in school with a major in broadcasting. I have a goal to get into videography. Currently I am a junior, and have a loan available to me for 3000.00. I plan on spending it on a laptop that is capable of non linear editing. I have built several computers, and am well rehearsed in Windows. Currently I am running Adobe Premiere 6.5 at home on XP Pro. At school I am constantly subjected to Apple. I literally have been living and breathing Final Cut Pro in school. At first I hated it, (very unfamiliar) the OSX 10 Operating system was not user friendly for me. Now, I have grown to like it very much. Recently a college pal of mine ordered a MacBook Pro (core duo) and put alot of pricey software on it. So he, one day, is on www.mefeedia.com which I have heard there is spyware/ adware hidden within. So I ask him, "what kind of protection software are you using?" thinking he is a little too unconcerned with getting his "new" laptop infected. In response he tells me "You obviously don't know Apple products." and elaborates on there is no protection software needed, how OSX 10 runs off a Unix kernel, and it doesn't have a registry, and malicious hackers can not tell an operating system to do something when all it is meant to do is its assigned functions. Whereas malicious hackers can and do tell MS OS damaging commands, and have a field day pissing off people.
Now, if I spend what I consider to be a large chunk of cash on a laptop, I'd like it to be a smart purchase. I am doing something I thought I would never do...seriously considering an Apple. I truly am soo sick of dealing with software protection, it is annoying, it runs as a background program sucking up system resources, every six months I am renewing my subscription, and worst of all it doesn't always work. It is not guaranteed to work. So please anyone who does NLE on a laptop, lend me some experiential feedback. Also if you would, comment on the list below of the top four laptops I have researched. Thank you all.

#1.) MacBook Pro 17
#2.) Toshiba Quasimo
#3.) Dell Precision M90
#4.) Acer Aspire 9800

I think they are all comprable, but only one of them does not scare me when surfing the internet. Tell me which you might prefer, or other suggestions. Thanks.
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post #2 of 18
6/13/06 at 9:52pm
well the M90 is best for graphic designers because of the quadro 2500 fx. It seems like you won't need a quadro gaming card. If you want apple i would go with the 15" macbook pro but remember, the macbook pros get very hot. Do you need a 17"? If not you can get a very nice dell 1705 for 1300. Configure either a dell 1705 or 1505 or 1405 (1705-17", 1505-15", 1405-14") and get the price up to 2 k. Then use the 750 $ coupon. Go to like slickdeals or just google dell coupons. Also i think you would have more and faster replys if you put this in the general notebook section. If you want to move it just cut all of this, then delet this thread clicking on thread tools and pressing delete this thread. Then create a new thread in the general notebook section.
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post #3 of 18
6/13/06 at 10:09pm
Ok your friend is a little misled.

Yes the Mac OS is unix based and by nature is a bit safer, however that doesnt mean that you dont need to use common sense with computing, viruses can and will be written for the mac eventually, they may not be nearly as effective for someone that uses common sense when running their computer though, doesnt mean they will be immune just safer.

But at any rate in as far as laptops... Personally I prefer FCP over Adobe any day. For that by itself I would go with the mac, but I also find Macs to be better quality laptops, especially in my line of work, which is audio primarily. Quieter and more durable(However 1st gen of any laptop you are always taking chances

That being said between the MacBooks, the only one with the feature set you would actually want is like you have probably already seen the 17. If they had the features of the 17(FW800 for example) on the 15 I would reccomend the 15 over it as carrying around a 17" laptop is overkill IMO. Even for video I would get the smaller and use an external monitor, but at any rate my vote is for the apple.

Seablade
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post #4 of 18
6/14/06 at 12:58am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the response Seablade.
"Personally I prefer FCP over Adobe any day" I am really liking the features on FCP as well.
"Even for video I would get the smaller and use an external monitor" I disagree with you here, the 17" comes with a faster DVD burner, and is the only one to offer dual layer. It has more USB ports, and two firewire ports (1-400, and 1-800) Now, I have never owned an Apple in my life, but I have learned the laptops are well known for getting very hot. The 17" having a physically wider body, I hear it disperses heat better.
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post #5 of 18
6/14/06 at 1:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimram
Thanks for the response Seablade. "Personally I prefer FCP over Adobe any day" I am really liking the features on FCP as well. "Even for video I would get the smaller and use an external monitor" I disagree with you here, the 17" comes with a faster DVD burner, and is the only one to offer dual layer. It has more USB ports, and two firewire ports (1-400, and 1-800) Now, I have never owned an Apple in my life, but I have learned the laptops are well known for getting very hot. The 17" having a physically wider body, I hear it disperses heat better.
Heh you misunderstood what i was saying there I agree the feature set on the 17 is MUCH better and much better suited for either yours or my work. That is why if I buy another Mac it will have to be a 17. What I was saying though is more that I think 17" in general is a bad choice for a laptop as it is big enough to be completely unweildy at times, hard to find a good case for, and generally in the way, yet to small a screen to make me really happy for doing work on(This starts at at least 19" for me, but preferably dual 19", the Widescreen large HD cinema displays from Apple are pretty nice though So by all means if you are going to get a macbook I would say the 17 is the better choice, I just think it is unfortunate that that feature set doesnt come on the 15 as that would truly take it from buisness notebook to professional IMO. Seablade Sticking with his powerbook PS Do plenty of research on the heat put out by those things, and in particular about the amount of thermal grease used that is suspected to cause severe heat buildup problems by some.
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post #6 of 18
6/14/06 at 5:12pm

Dell 9300

Hey there,

I had the same questions as you a while back, but I eventually went with
the Dell Inspiron 9300, which is running Avid Xpress Pro HD and the Adobe
Production Studio. (Everyone says you need the M90 for a proper workstation,
but if you want to save the cash a 9300 will do just fine... probably the 9400
as well, but I won't comment on that because I've never tried running the
software on those).

I definitely recommend the 17" screen. Granted, it's cumbersome at times but
you'll thank yourself later when you're trying to edit with a source/record
window and a number of palettes. It's particularly nice for After Effects, if you use that sort of thing.

I wouldn't recommend the Qosmio. I hear the integrated tuner card is
a memory hog and people have had issues trying to use it as an NLE.

Just make sure you get plenty of ram and a speedy harddrive. You can edit
on a 5400 rpm drive, but it will give you problems if you're working with
uncompressed video and/or a number of realtime effects. 7200 is the best
bet if you can swing it... remember that laptop hard drives are slower than
their desktop equivalents, even if they're touted as having the same spin
up speed.

My two cents, good luck with the purchase...
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post #7 of 18
6/15/06 at 2:00am
Thread Starter 
Thank for the feedback Blondogg I am curious, when you were pondering the same decision I am facing now did Apple ever cross your mind? A professor with a film major said this to me.... "Think of every program you run on a computer like a book, essentially that's what it is." "Final Cut along with other OSX software, is written specifically for the creative world." "When a company writes business software, they find greater sales potential in writing for Win OS." Now I know Avid, and that is certainly a Professional NLE program. I am sure you reach out for many other programs in completing your work as do I. itunes will encode a sound file into an .aiff file, and the program is free. Did you ever use Garage Band, I found it quite useful in way of incorporating "unique" "royalty-free" background music a few times. I am a newbie with Apple, I have used IBM computers my whole life, all 36 years of it (not quite, but alot), what else is out there?
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post #8 of 18
6/15/06 at 2:12am
Zimram dont count out open source software, on the Mac you have a nice variety that has been ported from Linux as well. I wouldnt touch the video compared to FCP, but some of the audio stuff especially is quite good, for example I have a license to PT, have access to Final Cut Studio w/ Soundtrack, Audition 1.5, Cubase and Nuendo, but when it comes down to it most of my straight audio work is done on Ardour with VST support(And actually my main audio machine runs linux so I run ardour on that and will be setting up my mac for a VST server for it)

At any rate Garageband is a decent program as well, and if you got Final Cut Studio you would also get Soundtrack. I dont think they compare for a lot of my work, but for general background music and recordings without a good engineer working them they would work fine I think. Stronger stuff that needs stronger programs youll probably have someone else working audio by that point I would think.

Seablade
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post #9 of 18
6/17/06 at 10:00am
In your case, where you're just starting out,looking to experiment, and absolutely NEED a laptop, I would suggest the Macbook Pro over anything else out there. Keep in mind, though, when you use a notebook to edit off of, you're limited by a few things:

1. Workspace: A 17" screen is nice but can fill up awfully quick when you are multi-tasking on a project or editing off multiple clips at once. It gets frustrating having to click into bins or windows hiding in all the nooks and crannies of the desktop.

2. Drive speed/safety: You never want to capture footage to your program drive. Your laptop only has one drive in it. Therefore, you end up running a higher risk of system failure or media corruption. Everything you work from, video-wise, should be located on an external drive that runs around 7200rpm. You can get away with 5400 drives, but there is a lag when scrubbing clips.

3. Your wrists: Compositing work, hell, ANY effect work is a nightmare with a touchpad. Use a mouse, your wrists will thank you.

My final suggestion: Get yourself a desktop model to do your editorial on. Make a nice little workspace that you, and the people you work with on your videos, can feel comfortable in. For $3000, I'd say an Apple G5 Dual refurb, FCP Studio, two LCD monitors (one is fine, but two will give you a much bigger workspace, obviously), and some external storage (at least 250gb).

Then buy a PC laptop for gaming and internet.
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post #10 of 18
6/17/06 at 7:25pm
Thread Starter 
ericmbee thanks so much for the feedback! A couple of responses to your feedback...

"1. Workspace:" No contest I totally agree. Though I think a small frustration to pay getting portability.

"2. Drive speed/safety:" Again I agree. This in my college is a given. Most people use LaClie external firewire drives.
You refer to "video-wise", could you elaborate on exactly what this is?

"3. Your wrists:" No contest, already there.

"My final suggestion: Get yourself a desktop model to do your editorial on." Heres my struggle, you hit a nerve. I have built several systems, and fully understand what you can get if you can keep it at home. First, I cannot make both laptop & desktop financially happen now. Second, though this portable system would be geared for my video work; in addition is all my school work (5 classes per semester) which is no light load, and i'm at home 10% of the day. The real kicker is this...I have been picking up a couple of little video jobs on the side. When I bring to a client the piece I am working on for them, give them a little presentation of how a rough draft is coming along without having export the whole piece and burn a copy. That means efficiency for me, and I can come to the client wherever they are. The 17" MacBook Pro has a glossy screen option which is amazing, it's impressively plasma-like. Keeping up with the professional traffic in this world requires you to be in too many places at the same time.
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post #11 of 18
6/17/06 at 7:46pm
"You refer to "video-wise", could you elaborate on exactly what this is?"

Pretty much any video you bring into an NLE. Always work from an external drive.

"I have been picking up a couple of little video jobs on the side. When I bring to a client the piece I am working on for them, give them a little presentation of how a rough draft is coming along without having export the whole piece and burn a copy. That means efficiency for me, and I can come to the client wherever they are. The 17" MacBook Pro has a glossy screen option which is amazing, it's impressively plasma-like. Keeping up with the professional traffic in this world requires you to be in too many places at the same time."

If this is what your clients are cool with, then you've pretty much narrowed yourself down to getting that Macbook. A tip, though. MPEGs and FTP or yousendit.com will cut your travel time down.

Good luck! I've been cutting for 4 years and its a whole mess of fun.

-e
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post #12 of 18
6/17/06 at 9:12pm
Thread Starter 
ericmbee thanks again,
You've been into video for four years, that is great! Careful, I will be asking you every question under the sun if you let me.

Thanks for the clarification of "video-wise", the way you worded it, I thought it was some NLE software or video backup protection.

You said, "If this is what your clients are cool with,.." My question to you is, what possible reason would a client have for not being cool with this?

Last but not least..."A tip, though. MPEGs and FTP or yousendit.com will cut your travel time down"
Exporting a video to .mpg, .avi, .mov, all take time. Tranfer of this data via FTP or yousendit.com can work fine (yousendit requires you break it up into 1GB pieces) Here is a real scenario, 11:30 am I get a phone call from a client, and they say.."12 O'clock I am taking lunch, is there any way you can stop by to discuss the project?" So I am working on the schools G5 Mac with a 160GB external drive thinking I could unplug the drive & hope someone in the office building has FCP 4.5 on their computer. (Not cool) No time to export the file and burn it, FTP it, or anything like that. So what happens, I bring my storyboard over to the client and start pointing with my finger where I'm at. (lame) I drive away thinking, would it not be cool to unplug the external from the G5, bring it to the client and plug it in to MacBook and drive the idea home.
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post #13 of 18
6/17/06 at 11:17pm
Zimram, no problem. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate.

"Here is a real scenario, 11:30 am I get a phone call from a client, and they say.."12 O'clock I am taking lunch, is there any way you can stop by to discuss the project?" So I am working on the schools G5 Mac with a 160GB external drive thinking I could unplug the drive & hope someone in the office building has FCP 4.5 on their computer. (Not cool) No time to export the file and burn it, FTP it, or anything like that. So what happens, I bring my storyboard over to the client and start pointing with my finger where I'm at. (lame) I drive away thinking, would it not be cool to unplug the external from the G5, bring it to the client and plug it in to MacBook and drive the idea home."

I agree, this is a great scenario, but also depends on your client's needs and desires. 9 times out of 10, I'm sitting next to the client and moving through footage, making selects, and building the story. It's more efficient than moving in a direction the client may not support, making all your hard work moot.

The best thing to do is discuss what you are capable of offering to the client on a project-by-project basis. If he/she wants to set up weekly meetings to discuss the edit, make sure you are both on the same page. If he/she wants to hang over your shoulder and nitpick, that's their call. Remember, though, they are hiring you and your expertise. Let them know how the project will flow. All they care about is the end product.

/steps off soapbox
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post #14 of 18
6/26/06 at 5:34pm
Hi Zimram,

Sorry I didn't get back to your previous question, been locked up with
numerous projects. As for your previous question, I have used FCP in
the past (up until version 4) and I loved it. Avid/FCP are just tools to
use, a means to an end. Once I learn where the buttons/menus are on
any program, after a couple of hours I'm usually comfortable.

As for your dilemma re: laptop portability/meeting clients on short notice,
don't forget that YOUR time is just as valuable as theirs. Don't sell yourself
short at their convenience, they'll usually respect that you can't make a
meeting on a half hour's notice. You're not at their beck and call. Schedule
a later date to allow for the proper work to be completed, or to give yourself
a couple of extra hours to upload/send a compression. I agree with the folks
above that yousendit.com or FTP transfers are the way to go with client
approvals if you can schedule the time, which you should be able to... no
need to worry about a 1GB limit, most client approvals should never exceed
50 - 100MB for a rough cut (depending on the project, of course). Just compress 'em to WMV's or Quicktimes... compression software is almost realtime these days so it shouldn't be a problem.

As always, good luck with your decision/work.
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post #15 of 18
7/2/06 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
A thanks to you all
Thank you Blondogg, thank you ericmbee, and thank you seablade. My decision has been made. It certainly was painstaking. I narrowed it down to the Dell Precision M90, and the MacBook Pro 17, so I went with the Mac. Reason being is there are certain programs that I find valuable made for Windows, and having worked on OSX 10 I found some amazing programs as well. Upon arrival I will partition the hard drive and install Windows XP Pro, then I will have my Windows PC and Apple computer all in the same.
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post #16 of 18
7/3/06 at 1:37am
Depending on your programs you need, Parallels may be a better option than a dual boot. However if any of those programs are resource intensive(So a NLE or Audio Sequencer for example) Dual boot is definitly the best option. If it is other programs like destructive editors for audio(Audacity ie) you MIGHT be better off with Parallels.

Of course Parallels costs extra money, though not much, so that may be a deciding factor as well

Seablade
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post #17 of 18
7/31/06 at 5:20pm

Parallels or dual boot?

Thanks so much for posting your thread. I'm going through the same thing as you have. Shoud I switch to the MAC after using MS based OS for over 20 years?

I'm assuming that you have had the MAC for a while. Since I have lots of programs that run only in MS Windows I was wondering what you think about Parallels vs dual boot?
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post #18 of 18
7/31/06 at 6:23pm
See my previous post. It depends on the program.

Seablade
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