Windows on Mac

ouch....????

No...but it's nice to have options

mac os has its benefits....lets not forget, its FreeBSD in a pretty closed-source (hell, 100% lockdown) package. So security and networking/server ability is of higher order on macos than it ever was on windows... the downside is that
1) it turned an opensource project into everything an opensource supporter hates
2) it is illegal for you to modify it in any way (even the desktop theme to some degree) (which is the think opensource people hate b/c linux users love the freedom of being to change 100% everything on their systems, not be limited by some EULA and programmed-in blockers)
3) for being a $200 piece of software it sure lacks viability in the real world compared to even the "sucky" windows.

that said, apple made macs run windows to boost sales. the concept here is that most windows users are not willing to buy macs because they'll have to change all their software, and thats a pain... so if they can bring their own software to the new mac... it will be more painless and thus more people will buy a mac.... its nothing but a marketing gimmik.

OSX is based on UNIX and is designed to be quite stable and work well. Apple is simply providing more options to those that needed a Mac but wanted to run those Windows only applications *ahem*games*ahem* mostly that have to do with certain networking/programming or specialized applications.

I work with both Macs and PCs and have no problem getting them to work together. Though, I'm just a wee bit more inclined to Macs.

The entire BSD foundation of OS X is open source. There are many people in the scientific field who actually modify and recompile their kernels for new functionality or optimisation.

And what's this "it sure lacks viability in the real world" crap?

yeah Kakaze, i know that Darwin is opensource and can be tweaked as you wish, but not everyone and their grandma is willing to go forth with the effort of installing Darwin. I am not gonna lie to you, I'd love to try darwin out as a dual boot with my linux, but from what I read on the developer pages is that its limited to NOT run on AMD chips....which leaves me out. oh well, life goes on. What I meant is that the final retail OSX is NOT tweakable... I don't care that its closed source, in fact for them to be able to sell it like they do it HAS to be closed, I would simply like to see more flexiblity and more options... like not being tied to the Aqua desktop for example (like I am sure you're aware in linux we have Gnome and KDE as the heavy hitters, and then XFCE, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, IceWM, TWM, Blackbox, Rat Poison for the more light-weight crowd, and Mizzo under heavy development) But it really goes quite a bit beyond just being able to use an alternative desktop (imagine OSX with a Fluxbox-like interface....sexy!)

as for the "limited viability in the real world" i simply ment that compared to the competition (Windows on workstations and laptops, and Linux on servers) OSX has less potential. I am not saying its a weak os, i am just saying that it has a lack of support and supported software to run on it to make it more useful for the everyday folk. Its not apple's fault the developers aren't investing into OSX programs.... but still remains a fact of life that an every day PC user can't go to best buy and pick up a few OS X titles as easily as he can for his XP box.

The Darwin Kernel is the OS X kernel. People running OS X have used the Darwin source to tweak their kernel. Everything else that runs on top is the closed source stuff like Cocoa and other APIs that keep Mac software running on OS X and not Darwin.

Macs certainly do not lack for support or software. So what, you can go to best buy and pick up anything for Windows. You can get practically anything for Macs too, you just have to buy it online. Not a big deal unless you need a particular programme "right now". Otherwise there are a shitload of developers making Mac software and most major Windows programmes have Mac versions as well anyway.

this is true to an extent, and i think apple realizes that they are losing a huge bit of business in certain niches. for example, many lawyers would like to use macs, but none of the legal specific software is written for apple os.

my bro used to be a chemistry research assossiate @ UIC and he said they had a few macs in their lab and when it came to hard core number crunching and chem-specific tasks they failed horribly.... so that most of the time they just stood there collecting dust while the PCs had their work cut out for them. also that Cocoa, APIs and all that junk..... doesn't that essentially make Darwin useless (to a regualr desktop user) if they can't even make anything on it or use anything (unless they install Portage for Darwin so that they can at least run linux apps....make it some scary gentoo-osx clone)

I've lost the point of this thread. The averageuser cares nothing about Darwin or Linux on their Mac (or PC for that matter). With the Intel Macs, we now have options we didn't have before...this is a good thing for those of us who happen to like using a Mac. And, it doesn't hurt those who wouldn't touch a Mac with a 10 foot pole.

Arguing about which is better really is pointless (think I'm repeating myself here). There are so many choices, people can buy what they like. 2 years ago, I would have been in here arguing strongly about how much better Macs are then PCs...but then I got back into PCs and XP...and I found out they weren't so bad afterall. BUT - I'm still partial to Apple - because I just happen to like the way they look and I like OS X. For the applications many people want to run, I happen to think a Mac is easier to use...but that is just myopinion, and there's no need to argue about it.

It would be nice if people would stick to why they personally like or don't like a product, and stay away from sweeping generalizations and condemnation of those who do choose to buy a Mac or any other brand of computer!

Hasn't this thread about run it's course???

yes. and this is a load of crap. Wallmart sells their Linspire systems to "average users", i use Ubuntu as my main OS for "normal desktop tasks" and oh man, my dad is not very computer-savvy (wouldn't call stupid, just not savvy) and even he uses linux on his desktop. Best choice i ever made leaving windows.... no freezing, crashing, viruses, spyware.....and lots of free software!

so when is leopard coming out?

Some people who post at NBF are a bit older and far wiser than you, more experienced in all aspects of life in general, very bright, tactful, gracious and eloquent. Those people are deserving of far more respect than you give in this and many of your posts - even if you don't agree with what they say. shazza is one of those people, abf.

You should consider sometimes, before posting, that you're not always addressing other school kids here. I seriously doubt you'd speak with the same cocky tone if you were face to face with the vast majority of people to whom you give so little respect.

In my mind, you owe an apology here.

Thanks guys, but I don't expect an apology from abf. I thought I made myself clear that I was only expressing my opinion - it's fine with me if abf thinks that's a load of crap. I think he has raised some good points in the multiple posts he's made about operating systems, and he is obviously very knowledgeable. Again, it is only my opinion, but his posts would carry more weight if he did not attack people ... but I take no offense

As I said, you're gracious and tactful, shazza. I'm not as understanding, gracious or tactful as you; I take offense with his posts.

:sings: Did you ever know that you're my he-e-ero? You're everything I would like to be. And I could fly higher than an eagle, if you were the wind beneath my wings!