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Tablets... Am I selling my soul here?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
At the moment I seem to be torn apart by the ying and yang forces of performance verses portability. This is just a dishevelled university student seeking some advice on whether mobility is worth the sacrifice in performance from this board's many experienced user's experience. A little background.

Almost exactly a year ago, I purchased a qosmio g-10. I needed a computer for university, and being as I did not have a desktop, I wanted to make sure I had all my bases covered. I bought the unit in July 05 for 2300, a good deal at the time. My cousin had recently bought one and enthusiastically touted the g-10's many capabilities of it's screen, decent graphics and tv and miscelaneous media potential. My other potential buy would have been the toshiba m-40 and m-60 (all possibilities because they had discrete and decent graphics cards). I lugged the computer as well as it's power brick (and wow, is that a brick, being twice as large as anything else i've seen.) every day to classes. Battery life was only around 1 hour, 45 minutes, but i consistently studied in my uni library for several hours afterwords. Contrary to popular opinion, I didn't mind carrying it around at all in terms of weight as i was getting more performance. Movies were great, and i download them all the time from torrents. It was decent at playing games, enough so that I never had an issue of not beingn able to play a game i wanted to play (including bf2!). Other games I have played include civ 4, farcry, vampires masquade, empire at war... I have yet to try oblivion I'd consider myself a casual gamer who likes his games, but can do without the eye candy if necessary. I was definately satisfied with my g-10, however find it lacking in battery life, and i did not make use of many of the qosmio's other media capabilities. That's the ying. Now for the yang.


Recently, i've been getting the itch to the absolute opposite side of the spectrum. I've lately been entertaining the notion of getting something small, much more portable that i could take to more than 2 classes. I've been thinking about a tablet for the novelty factor, and because it is touted as revolutionizing the note taking and university lecture experience.

I find it extremely alluring to have a laptop with a battery life of 5-7 hours... Such a unit would be entirely mobility, preferably a 14.1 inch screen. I'd use it for an entertainment center somewhat as well (mp3's, movies, heavy downloading) and would simply abandon the idea of gaming on this computer. I'm taking a degree of commerce at UBC in canada, so I don't even think this mobility unit would need a discrete graphics card if i took this route. I'm definately trying to get serious about getting good marks this next year! and am debating on whether getting a focused mobility unit (tablet or otherwise) will help me take better notes and get more out of my lectures. I prefer to use a computer to take lecture notes over taking by hand, and am taking more classes per day then my last year.

Or maybe i should simply go with a cheap motility computer with no graphics card at all but supreme battery life. Mmmmmm... My budget is distributed as: (preferably as total prices, including tax)

1) as cheap as possible if i simply go for a regular, small laptop optimized for battery life and mobility
2) 1500-2500 for a tablet
3) 2000-2500 for a gaming computer

My perfect pc would be something compromisingly small, superb battery life that could still play games decently. I don't think this exists though, not for my price range.

Other criteria I'd prefer would be:

1) widescreen, nice resolutions
2) 1 gig of ram
3) 1.60 at the minimum, preferably duo core
4) fingerprint reader
5) mobility units, 5-7 hours of battery

Question 1:
So, what I am asking is whether or not any of this board's users have gone through a similar dillema. What did you end up buying? What was your perspective on your decision after the fact? Also, if people who have purchased a tablet would recommend it as an essential feature or something they barely use.

Laptops I am currently pondering are...

a) Toshiba's p100-9012 as a gaming computer (this would be the ultimate splurge... Battery life is less then 2 hours though, similar to my current unit. i definately would prefer an improved battery life though!, hence my problems..)
b) dell's xps 1210, though it's value is not there for the price (mediocre gaming and it's not a tablet and small screen for every day use)
c) satillite tablet from toshiba? expensive though...
d) dell's e1405 configured for around 1000 dollars as a simple no games mobility unit (would i hate myself after?)
e gateway m285 - e (at least you can put a discrete graphics in.. Mmm.. Maybe i could play some games then..)
f) potential hp or ibm tablets

Question 2:

When is the projected release date for meron equiped laptops. Ii don't have a time crunch as i already have a laptop for uni, but i'd prefer to buy august/september.




Thank you very much for anyone who replies! I'm very interested to see other people's perspectives. Obviously, i'll make up my own mind suited to my own needs, but I'm still interested in external input, especially on the subject of the marginal useability of tablets. I also am going to the USA in august, so feel free to quote models being sold in both canada and the USA!!!!
post #2 of 24
if you think you have time to play games get a gaming laptop. if you dont get a tablet pc. the tc4200 is a very good tablet
post #3 of 24
If you are trying to move away from games (as I am) I would honestly suggest taking a look at the new macbooks. Mine is definately small enough to carry everywhere and when doing school oriented activities the battery can definately last 4.5-5 hours no problem. I have come to love everything about OSX and I think that using a new operating system will allow me to focus on my schoolwork as opposed to tinkering incessantly as I used to with my pcs. I also looked at tablets but it seemed to me like the market had not really expanded to the point of their being worth it. It seemed to me like I just couldn't get enough power for my money if I went the tablet route. I am using my macbook as my only computer and 1280x800 was really the minimum screen resolution I could justify using as my only computer. Unfortunately tablets all had smaller resolutions which would be fine for use on the go but just didn't quite fit what I needed for 24/7 use.
post #4 of 24
What are you going to do with a notebook in class? Universities everywhere have enough computers on campus anyway...
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
@ aintz - Thanks for the recommendation.

What are your thoughts on the TC4400 vs the tc4200? the 4400 seems to be similar in most aspects, but totes a duo core processor for 100 dollars more.

Prices would look to be somewhere around 2300 dollars CAD on the 4200/4400 models after it's all said and done. (1700-1800 + 180 additional battery plus tax)

Reviews floating on the web seem favorable of the system. Normal usage puts it at 4.5 hrs of battery life, with limited use hits around 7-8. I am a bit hesitant about the 12.1 inch screen though, as this would be my main computer once i sell my 17 inch monster qosmio.

How does that compare say, to a similarly configured gateway model? Opinions?
Operating System: Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Tablet PC Edition
Application Software: Microsoft® Works 8.5
Processor: Intel® Core™ Duo Processor T2400 (1.83 GHz, 667MHz FSB, 2MB L2 Cache) ........[ +US$50.00]
Memory: 512MB 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2-256MB modules)
Video: ATI Mobility™ Radeon® X1400 64MB Graphics featuring Avivo™ display technology ........[ +US$100.00]
Mobile Technology: Features Intel® Centrino® Duo Mobile Technology
Screen: 14.0" WXGA TFT Active Matrix (1280 x 768 max. resolution) with rotating hinge for tablet functionality
Digitizer Pens: Gateway executive stylus pen w/ Continuous Sensing Technology™
Hard Drive: 60GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive ........[ +US$25.00]
Optical Drive: Modular 24x/10x/24x CD-RW / 8x DVD combo ........[ +US$30.00]
Floppy Drive: 7-in-1 media card reader (Memory Stick®, Memory Stick Pro®, MultiMediaCard™, Secure Digital™, xD Picture Card, Mini Secure Digital™:, RS-MultiMediaCard™)
Integrated Wireless Networking Adapter: Integrated Intel® 802.11a/b/g wireless networking card
Network Adapter: Integrated Intel® 10/100/1000 Ethernet Adapter
Modem: Integrated V.92 56K modem
Battery: Primary 12-cell lithium-ion battery with AC pack and 1 yr. limited battery warranty (to accommodate additional cells, this battery extends beyond the end of the system) ........[ +US$44.00]
Additional Battery: Modular 6-Cell lithium ion battery w/ primary battery bay filler and 1-yr. limited battery warranty ........[ +US$149.99]
Carrying Case: Not Selected
Keyboard and Mouse: Full-size keyboard and EZ Pad® pointing device
Multimedia Package: Integrated sound and stereo speakers, headphone/speaker jack, and mic jacks
Speakers: External speakers not selected
Extended Service Plan Including Limited Warranty: Notebook Value Service Plan -- 3 year part/labor/no on-site/3 year technical support
Security Software: Symantec Client Security 3.0 90-day subscription
Trusted Platform Module: TPM - Embedded security chip for user authentication and data protection (version 1.2 ready)
Operating System Software Backup Media: Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Tablet (SP2) Backup CD
Drivers Backup Media: M285 Drivers and Applications CD
Standard Software: Microsoft® One Note, Microsoft® Experience Pack and Microsoft® Education Pack
Expansion Slots: (1) Type II PC card slot
External Ports: (3) USB 2.0, IEEE 1394 (FireWire), VGA
Part Number: 1008804


1850 US, or around 2400 CAD, but that includes both a 12 cell primary battery and a 150 dollar 6 cell modular bay battery, leaving me unplugged around 6-7 hours at normal usage. Overkill, maybe, but if i'm going to sacrifice gaming i've got to get something anyways. In addition, one review scores it at around 2000 points in 3dmark 2005 fully configured, so perhaps 1700-1800 with the modest configeration above.

http://www.notebookreview.com/defaul...blet+PC+Review


@ SHNAKE - I appreciate the comments. I know i'm not the only one going through this dilemma You make an interesting point. Previously I had not even considered mac's because previously i was looking at gaming computers!! Now, however, i'm looking for something else.

1) Do you find the macbook's 13 inch screen is sufficient for everyday use? I was going to draw the line at 14.1 inches or so, it could change. I've gone to physical computer stores and looked at the different screen sizes, however is it more of something you get used to rather than something that is unbearable?

The Macbook in canada is around 1300 for the cheapest system with 1 gig of ram. That totals at less than 1500 dollars, and no discrete graphics card. You being a previous pc user, how did you find switching software.

2) Initially i have stayed clear of mac's because i download myriad cracked software, games and programs over torrents etc... err... would i still be able to find programs for mac hardware around on the web at similar avaiability?
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ideas
What are you going to do with a notebook in class? Universities everywhere have enough computers on campus anyway...

I take notes on my computer. I very much prefer computer typed notes when the class suits that style because I find i simply study better when my notes are neat and more organized and i do this with a computer the best. Similarly, i like being able to have an electrical hardcopy of notes in case i lose the origionals.

In terms for a tablet, there are many many occasions when taking lecture notes that i wish i could draw arrows, diagrams and even flow charts of information into my regular windows word notes. I can make do without by simply adding more text, but it is messy and not as effective as a visual representation of graphic information. Similarly, there are some courses that work well with taking notes by computer, but which have certain symbols and characters which are unrepresentable with a keyboard. Right now actually, i'm reading through a statistics book and would prefer to take notes on my computer, but find that i do not have the symbols necessary for some of the formulas, so i can't use it.

Also, the computers at my university (UBC, Canada) are almost ALWAYS being used and have line ups to use at peak times. similarly, the computers seem to only have read-only copies of word, so you cannot write or change an essay, merely open and print it. i've had a few issues with that already!
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freelansir
I take notes on my computer. I very much prefer computer typed notes when the class suits that style because I find i simply study better when my notes are neat and more organized and i do this with a computer the best. Similarly, i like being able to have an electrical hardcopy of notes in case i lose the origionals.

In terms for a tablet, there are many many occasions when taking lecture notes that i wish i could draw arrows, diagrams and even flow charts of information into my regular windows word notes. I can make do without by simply adding more text, but it is messy and not as effective as a visual representation of graphic information. Similarly, there are some courses that work well with taking notes by computer, but which have certain symbols and characters which are unrepresentable with a keyboard. Right now actually, i'm reading through a statistics book and would prefer to take notes on my computer, but find that i do not have the symbols necessary for some of the formulas, so i can't use it.

Also, the computers at my university (UBC, Canada) are almost ALWAYS being used and have line ups to use at peak times. similarly, the computers seem to only have read-only copies of word, so you cannot write or change an essay, merely open and print it. i've had a few issues with that already!

Amen to that man, my handwriting verges on being completely illegible. Throughout highschool I took notes now and then because they made me but honestly I could barely read a word of it when looking back on them. I plan on typing my notes next year for sure. I have had my eye on microsoft onenote. I tried it out on my desktop and it seems awesome, unless I find a osx compatible replacement it might be the one program I use parallels to run on my macbook.
post #8 of 24
If your university has Student Discount programs you might be able to get an IBM tablet PC for less than USD1100.
post #9 of 24
What about a moderate gaming capable tablet? IIRC gateway has a tablet w/ a pretty good gpu and the Tecra M7 has a Quadro 110, which as I understand it is on par with the 7600.
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
@ ideas, that's definately interesting... Is the laptop purchased through my school then?, or through the ibm site using a student discount? I'll try phoning tomorrow. In other news, i've been browsing gateway's home page, and came across several "recertified, referbished" convertible 280's. The prices are listed from 800-900 dollars USD. I've heard mixed reviews about refurbished computers. 1) that they are better because, once a problem is found, even more rigerous testing and better fabrication is used before it's put back to market 2) they fix it temporarily and it is highly likely to break again in the future. What have nbf people got to say about refurbished computers... Specs for example would be the following, plus i'd purchase my extended battery's seperately for another 200-300 dollars i'd suppose. It's not exactly what i'd want in a system config, but it's almost 700 dollars cheaper, and though my price limit is around 2500, i'll always look around for a good deal Gateway cx-280 Operating System: Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Tablet Edition Processor: Intel® 1.7GHz–M Pentium® 4 Processor Keyboard: Keyboard with touchpad Display: 14.0" WXGA TFT Active Matrix Pointing Device: EZ® Pad Memory: 1024MB RAM Drive: 60GB Hard Drive Optical Drive: DVD Writer DVD±/R±RW/CD–R/RW Application Software: Microsoft® Works 8.0 Video Card: Integrated Video Sound Card: Integrated Sound Speakers: Integrated Speakers Modem: 56k Integrated Modem² Wireless Network Adapter: Integrated IEEE 802.11g Wireless Networking Card Expansion Slots: One Type II or Type III PC Card Slot Battery: Included @ goonter
Quote:
IIRC gateway has a tablet w/ a pretty good gpu
please explain?! What model is this? The tecra A-7 is nice, very, very nice, but I can't really justify spending 3200+ dollars on it (with additional battery)!! While i made a decent amount of money this past summer!, 2500 really is my "splurge, i'm not going to have enough money for rent and tuition" price point. But hell... as i look at it, it's a very nice config, and probably would be the perfect middle road comprimise if price was not an issue. Some of the other models i'm listing are deinately total performance comprimises for the trade off in lower price. I don't suppose there would be any way that the toshiba A-7 would drop in price, either through discounts, or particular vendors offering deals? That was a great suggestion through gOOnter, as that looks like exactly what i'd want in terms of money not being an issue at all. I may have to think on that a bit... I am rather subject to impulse buying at times if it's what i really want, sigh.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
UPDATE:

It seems a tecra m7 can be had for SIGIFICANTLY less in the US than in Canada.

The pertinent specs on the config i'm seriously giving thought to is:

tecra m7, USA

1.83 duo core

512 ram (should i upgrade this to 1 gig for 125 dollars.. how easy is it to add my own ram?? i'd assume 2 gigs would go a long way to helping me run games efficiently...)

NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS 110M with TurboCache™ and 128MB of dedicated graphics memory (is this indeed on par with the 7600? Do you know that for sure?)

40 gig 5400 (i have a 160 gig external i save everything too anyways, not important)

3 year standard warenty

additional slice 6-cell batter for 180 dollars

This puts the price to 2000 dollars US before tax, which should end up to around ~2400 Canadian after the exchange rate and tax (btw, what IS the US tax rate? I am calc'ing from 8% sales tax, and 12% exchange rate)
post #12 of 24
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
right now, i'm still intrigued by gOOnter's tablet suggestion of the tecra m7!

Albeit, if I do more research and read more reviews and decide against a tablet, your advice is going a long way to pointing out reasons why a macbook might be what i need for a small, mobile non-tablet pc. Does the build quality seem ok for being apple's lowest end computer? I'm quite unfamiliar with macs, in fact. How does it work with apple/pc compatibility? Could i join the same network as an apple computer, and move files back and forth? And does apple every offer coupons or discounts that are worth waiting for?!

@ everyone else, an asside question, how do warrenties work cross country? If i were to buy the tecra m7 in the states and the 3 year standard warrenty, could i simply take this into a certified toshiba repair shop in canada and still have the warentee fullfilled? thanks to all! for your valuable advice!
post #14 of 24
The build quality on my macbook is much better than any pc laptop I have worked on (I fix computers as a small business) it seems great to me even though it is the least expensive model. I thought it would have problems with windows compatibility but it was actually EASIER to set up on my windows network than my pc was go figure! As far as coupons, if you are a college student (or know one) you get a discount on a macbook as well as a free ipod ($179 value) and a huge printer discount until august or september i believe.
post #15 of 24
also just letting you know, the Quadro gpu that appears in the Toshiba M7 is NOT on par with the 7600. It is around the 7300 mark. The Quadros were made for CAD working and things like that which suit some (maybe the OP? I don't have time to read the huge amounts of text sorry). To cut a long story short the M7 is NOT a good slightly gameable tablet, the Gateway is better by far.

Mike Check
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Oh really.. Are you sure about that now? Don't mean to be rude, but it might make the difference between which model i choose.

A gateway config that I like would cost around 2200 with a 64 radeon x1400 while the tecra m7 itself would be more expensive at 2400 with the quadro. Though, i'd imagine the tecra is a top of the line business computer, and has all those business extras of better construction than consumer notebooks.

Where are you both going (yourself and goonter) to get your comparisons of this quatro graphics card?


I suppose this question is getting old. I would be buying this pc to last me 3 years. For an expensive purchace, am I cheating myself if i can afford to wait until meron cpu's start hitting the market? just how much better is meron compared to the processors out now, and similarly, will there be a sweet spot in terms of a sharp drop in the current core duo prices. It seems dell does this, but does toshiba or gateway follow suit in order to clear old inventory? Thank you.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
1444 -- $1800 -- 0,80 -- Toshiba M7-117 -- 1.83 GHz Core Duo, nVidia Quadro NVS 110M (ala ATI X1300) 128MB, 14" 1440x990, 1GB, 80GB, 2.8kg, 5h

2250 -- $2190 -- 1,03 -- Gateway M285-E -- 2.16 GHz Core Duo, ATI X1400 64MB, 14" 1280x768, 1GB, 80GB 7200rpm, 2.8kg, 6h


ahh, these are the only statistics i could find on the comparison, 2005 3dmark scores. A fairly sharp difference, albeit the gateway is loaded with a better processor. The reviews seem favorable of the gateway, so perhaps i will wait a few weeks to see what people say about the M7 as it is fairly new! I'm aiming to buy the pc in early or mid august, if i do buy now.
post #18 of 24
freelansir, imo the gateway is what you are looking for. it currently has the best gpu in a tablet (the x1400). personally i'm not familiar w/ the m7, but what i've read is in line w/ what other posters have said, that it's gpu is not quite as good as the x1400.
post #19 of 24
Freelansir, you might want to go into a store and check out the tablets before you buy. I was just at a BestBuy and tested out their Gateway's older model CX2620 and I wasn't very impressed by the writing recognition. The newer Cx's might have better technology from them but from my perspective I believe that i'll be better off with a normal laptop and a good old spiral.
post #20 of 24
I haven't read through the whole thing so if someone haas already suggested the Sony SZ series then disregard this post.
Otherwise, check into them, 13.3 screen with 7400 nvidia gfx AND Intel GMA gfx.
You can switch between both.
If u want to game, pick the 7400 and reboot, otherwise pick the GMA gfx and reboot the laptop and get better battery performance.
It also comes with a finger print reader.

I think they are about 4 ~4.5 pounds and get upto 7 hours with the extended battery.

I know they went recently on a clearance sale in Circuitcity for $1100, and consequently a few have shown up in the For Sale section in the $1400 range as well as on Ebay from people who bought them up and are reselling them to make a quick profit.

Edit: They are also Core Duo 1.83 I beleive and come with a 1 gig of ram.
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