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4GB Memory --> Waste?

post #1 of 17
8/8/06 at 3:52am
Thread Starter 
hey guys... im kinda new to this stuff.. so would 4GB of dual-channel memory be worth the price?
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post #2 of 17
8/8/06 at 3:54am
yes it is a waste of money. 2gig would suffice with 99% of the stuff out there....for now. By the time vista comes out (the 2nd year so all the bugs can be worked out) you might need 4 gig ram, 64 bit hardware, DX10 vidcard but that is looking to far ahead in the future. By then you will be getting a whole new rig. Current machines i would go with 2gig.
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post #3 of 17
8/8/06 at 3:54am
Honestly, I don't think it's worth the $3000+ price tag it has. Unless what you're doing is really intensive like some CAD program or video editing, then definetely not. I use my laptop for video editing (HDV mostly) and gaming and I do appreciate having 4GB of RAM as it makes things a lot more fluid.

However, as you can see in my sig, I only paid $2170 for my entire system. I just got very lucky!
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post #4 of 17
8/8/06 at 4:01am
Oh, and by the way, if you're using Windows XP SP2, then 4GB really is a waste as the OS limits at 3GB. I believe it's something to do with a security vulnerability. 64-bit OSes and Vista utilizes all 4GB, so it's all good.
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post #5 of 17
8/8/06 at 4:19am
YEs, if you have an older original XP ( before service pack 2) and have not upgraded it it can utilize all 4 GB, startign with SP 2 they inplimented the limitation to protect against a vulnerability...

Unless you are doing major development work/AV edititing there is absolutely no need for 4 GB of RAM.

The current sweet spot remains at 2 GB. 1 Gb will get youby for basic web surfing, etc...If you plan on gaming 2 GB is the idea spot as newer games have a thirst for RAM... I have never exceeded 1.6 GB usage & I play a lot of games...

...On a side note the price for (2) 2 GB sticks is crazy...Even if you were doing major editing I would question anyone buying that much RAM for a lappy.
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post #6 of 17
8/8/06 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolApathy
The current sweet spot remains at 2 GB. 1 Gb will get youby for basic web surfing, etc...If you plan on gaming 2 GB is the idea spot as newer games have a thirst for RAM... I have never exceeded 1.6 GB usage & I play a lot of games...

I had virtual memory turned off because I thought I would never need more than 2 GB. But then I got to the final level of Quake 4 and it ran out of memory and bombed. So now I have virtual memory turned back on. I agree with what has been said here though - 2 GB should be plenty for most people, and the price of 2 GB sticks is just ridiculous.
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post #7 of 17
8/8/06 at 11:49am
Jim, that isthe unfortunate side effect of disabling VM completely. The game probably never needed that VM, however if the game (or other program) does a call to even reserve a large amount of memory & it is not available it can cause instability. Some programs will not even run if you do not have VM on. I have always maintained my VM at 128 -512 MB dynamic.

It has used the 128MB once...one time long ago my computer told me I was running low on memory (even though I was only using 400MB of RAM at the time) and said it was increasing my VM file to compensate...


...How did you get the M90 with 4 GB of RAM for $2,100.00? ...That is almost the cost of the RAM itself...
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post #8 of 17
8/8/06 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolApathy
YEs, if you have an older original XP ( before service pack 2) and have not upgraded it it can utilize all 4 GB, startign with SP 2 they inplimented the limitation to protect against a vulnerability.

That's nonsense and fairytales. What is true is that by default, XP limits individual processes to a maximum of 2GB of memory, which can be increased to 3GB using a boot.ini switch (that can lead to system instability...). This situation has been unchanged ever since XP came out. See Microsoft's KB article on this subject.

But, yes, unless you have very specific requirements and applications, then XP has a hard time using 4GB of memory efficiently.
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post #9 of 17
8/8/06 at 1:22pm
...Pirx the vulnerability is a result OF the system instability when you use the /3GB switch which creates a seperate non-contiguous 1 GB memory block (which is why it is not recommended.
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post #10 of 17
8/8/06 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolApathy
...How did you get the M90 with 4 GB of RAM for $2,100.00? ...That is almost the cost of the RAM itself...

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post #11 of 17
8/8/06 at 4:36pm
Yeah, I was curious about that as well, Also just to add it is just as Pirx said, basically there is a virtual memory limitation of 2 GB in windows XP for a single process, meaning asingle process cannot allocate more than 2 GB. Again there is a option to change the boot variable so it can use 3 GB but it causes some things to wigout, hell some aps have bugs when you have over 2 GB of ram, sound recorder will say there is not enough system memory, and you have to get the free memory down to under 2 GB before it will work. I have looked into this because my dad is a software devloper and his machine has 3 GB of ram, and it needed the change to run some CAD converter software he wrote for some big files, I actually saw his comp using 2.7 GB of ram.
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post #12 of 17
8/8/06 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolApathy
The current sweet spot remains at 2 GB. 1 Gb will get youby for basic web surfing, etc...

This is frightening, not just in the statement but the mindset it represents. My rule of thumb has always been that, upon bootup, if your system is using more than 200MB of RAM you have a problem. Either it's eye candy, resident apps, or malware. Disable one or more of the completely useless XP services, or just go without your widgets.

Granted, if you already have 2GB then by all means make use of it. Upgrading your RAM to 2GB because everyday apps won't run is just silly.
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post #13 of 17
8/8/06 at 6:33pm
I got it off of eBay. The seller didn't have the warranty information posted and he thought it only had 3GB of RAM. So he didn't get much bids on it at all.

I risked it and got the laptop without any warranty information. Turns out it had a 5-year warranty and 4GB of RAM. His loss was definetely my gain.
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post #14 of 17
8/8/06 at 6:35pm
more than 200 MB? On XP SP2? you have to be kidding. unless you don't run AV/Firewall services that is nearly impossible. I have all the services that are not critical to the OS disabled on my system & only run an AV/Firewall suite, aswell as Notebook hardware Control & boot into windows using 245MB (19 second boot time)

...Apparently you did not bother reading my entire post...I stated that 1 GB would be just fine for web surfing, etc... For games I would recommend 2 GB...

...As far as it being a bad mindset, I would have to ask if you are playing games.... Just about any new game will push you beyond the 1GB limit before you finish the game, If the game has a memory leak issue it can quickly blow through the 1 GB limit...


On another note- 5 year warranty?
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post #15 of 17
8/8/06 at 6:42pm
It's a 5-year Kepe Your Hard-drive warranty.

Here is the info directly from the Dell site:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="706"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="gridTitle">System Summary</td></tr> <tr><td></td></tr> </tbody></table><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="gridCell" width="85">Service Tag:</td><td class="gridCell">XXXXXX</td></tr><tr><td class="gridCellAlt" width="85">System Type:</td><td class="gridCellAlt">Dell Precision WorkStation M90</td></tr><tr><td class="gridCell" width="85">Ship Date:</td><td class="gridCell">7/11/2006</td></tr><tr><td class="gridCellAlt" width="85">Dell IBU:</td><td class="gridCellAlt">Americas</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr> <tr><td></td></tr><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td width="706"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="gridTitle" colspan="1">Description</td><td class="gridTitle" colspan="1">Provider</td><td class="gridTitle" colspan="1">Start Date</td><td class="gridTitle" colspan="1">End Date</td><td class="gridTitle" colspan="1">Days Left</td></tr><tr><td colspan="5" height="5"></td></tr><tr><td class="gridCell">Keep Your Hard Drive Service</td><td class="gridCell">DELL</td><td class="gridCell">7/11/2006</td><td class="gridCell">7/10/2011</td><td class="gridCell">1797</td></tr><tr><td class="gridCellAlt">Next Business Day</td><td class="gridCellAlt">DELL</td><td class="gridCellAlt">7/11/2006</td><td class="gridCellAlt">7/11/2007</td><td class="gridCellAlt">337</td></tr><tr><td class="gridCell">Next Business Day</td><td class="gridCell">DELL</td><td class="gridCell">7/11/2007</td><td class="gridCell">7/10/2010</td><td class="gridCell">1095</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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post #16 of 17
8/8/06 at 7:18pm
Even on this Vista Beta, I'm still using 40% of my ram. (2GB). Which is 2% less than what I was using on XP. 4GB seems WAY overkill for now. In FS, theres a 2GB stick for $400 ish, which seems like a good deal.
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post #17 of 17
8/9/06 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolApathy
...Pirx the vulnerability is a result OF the system instability when you use the /3GB switch which creates a seperate non-contiguous 1 GB memory block (which is why it is not recommended.

No. In fact, what happened with SP2 was that MS fixed the issue with the /3GB switch, or at least they claimed they did. In my experience, the instances of BSODs with the /3GB switch were indeed reduced after SP2, but not eliminated. In the cases I have seen, the BSODs were related to the memory taken up by the graphics susbsystem; reducing the /3GB accordingly can help eliminate the problem. None of that has anything to do with a "security vulnerability", as far as I know. I'd be interested in seeing a link to the issue you keep referring to, though.
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