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Anyone ever use IRIX (SGI's Unix OS)

post #1 of 18
11/14/06 at 7:13am
Thread Starter 
Hey all,
I just ordered myself a silicon graphics "fuel" visual workstation.
http://www.sgi.com/products/workstations/fuel/

SGI machines use(or used to use) a MIPS Processor instead of the standard x86 or IA-64 processor. This means that you can't install Windows or x86 Linux on the machine. These systems come with IRIX, a proprietary version of UNIX (actually the first version to use a graphical OS - called "4WDM") that is optimized for video/3D applications.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with IRIX(good or bad) that they would like to share. I've used it before on my SGI Iris Indigo, but that system is 15 years old and wasn't as up to the task as my new Fuel will be. FYI, Here are my system specs:
R14000A 500MHz MIPS Processor
V10 Pro Graphics
1GB RAM (will upgrade to 2)
36GB 10K RPM Ultra160 SCSI Drive
CDROM (will upgrade to DVD)

I am wanting to add Firewire, PCI Audio and Gigabit Ethernet. Does anyone know if its difficult to get these working in IRIX? Any recommendations as to what off-the-shelf cards I should buy?
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post #2 of 18
11/14/06 at 1:46pm
Well I found the OS to be OK, but the processor is wayyyyyyy outdated. Why did you get this instead of a 2 core Intel/AMD machine? Good luck getting any kind of support. Also the disk drives are expensive and very hard to find.
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post #3 of 18
11/20/06 at 1:57pm
My guess is that you got it for one of these purposes:
  • MCAD
  • Medical Imaging
  • Scientific Visualization
  • 3D Animation
  • Oil and Gas (seismic interpretation)
  • Visual Simulation
  • Geospatial imaging
  • Messing around with IRIX
In my opinion, the MIPS processor is far more efficient than its x86 counterparts. It's more power-efficient, the instruction set is smaller, and it doesn't run Windows, which sucks up more processor time than anything.

Granted your new machine isn't going to be screaming, but it'll still be nice and speedy for what you'll have running on it. You can't get that kind of fun with an x86 box ;-)
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post #4 of 18
11/20/06 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Dean
Granted your new machine isn't going to be screaming, but it'll still be nice and speedy for what you'll have running on it. You can't get that kind of fun with an x86 box ;-)
I highly doubt that machine is going to have better rendering performance than my 64bit 3ghz dual core machine.
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post #5 of 18
11/20/06 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrouble77
I highly doubt that machine is going to have better rendering performance than my 64bit 3ghz dual core machine.

Base on what ? have you ever use one ? RISC chip had been design 64bit way before Intel/AMD could complete it 32bit CPU CISC, don't get me wrong X86 is catching up but it is no where near the RISC chip, look at all the science research and similate stuff, they all base on RISC chip.
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post #6 of 18
11/21/06 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xccess21
Base on what ? have you ever use one ? RISC chip had been design 64bit way before Intel/AMD could complete it 32bit CPU CISC, don't get me wrong X86 is catching up but it is no where near the RISC chip, look at all the science research and similate stuff, they all base on RISC chip.
I used to use SGI machines for softimage and alias power animator (pre maya). It's hard to compare that technology to today's because MUCH better renderers exist (vray) and renders generally have MUCH more polys because the GPU's are so much more advanced. I remember the PC's we got to replace the SGI machines blew them away. From what other's have explained to me, modern CPUs are very RISC-like in their execution.

I have a feeling that the machine that jgilbs purchased is most commonly used for legacy IRIX/MIPS applications. Most everyone else (in the graphics industry) has converted to opterons and macs. My brother works at NFL in their graphics studio and they pretty much use macs exclusively except for some of the video editing machines (like flames which use linux). I do consulting work for them occasionally and am usually stuck using a mac.
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post #7 of 18
11/21/06 at 1:51am
While the RISC processors are still quite powerful for what they're meant for, an Opteron or a Mac usually works better, like BT said. I'm an Opteron person myself when it comes to my graphics work
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post #8 of 18
11/21/06 at 3:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrouble77
I used to use SGI machines for softimage and alias power animator (pre maya). It's hard to compare that technology to today's because MUCH better renderers exist (vray) and renders generally have MUCH more polys because the GPU's are so much more advanced. I remember the PC's we got to replace the SGI machines blew them away. From what other's have explained to me, modern CPUs are very RISC-like in their execution.

I have a feeling that the machine that jgilbs purchased is most commonly used for legacy IRIX/MIPS applications. Most everyone else (in the graphics industry) has converted to opterons and macs. My brother works at NFL in their graphics studio and they pretty much use macs exclusively except for some of the video editing machines (like flames which use linux). I do consulting work for them occasionally and am usually stuck using a mac.


You are right AMD had try to use RISC-like in their Opteron, however if you compare speed to speed I don't think AMD/intel could take on that RISC chip. Also, don't forget that cpu jgilbs want to purchase is a few years old, but I still doubt that AMD/Intel can take on that chip. On a side note, SGI did a terrible jobs on market/sale those system, back then, SGI attitude is if you order something less then $5 million SGI don't like to talk to you. Therefore they lost a great deal of market share graphic to Apple and Digital (sold to Compaq, which is now HP own). SGI been try to gain back the market but it is too late for them, they tried to lbreak into Windows Workstation market at the high time of the internet (the dot com booming), but that didn't work either, so now they just hang around try to sell Linux.

I still like some of the technology SGI use in their computing. They are maybe the first one able to put 128 CPU working together as super computer 10 years a go. I remember my first Indy 2 system, it blow the everything out of the water, then came Indigo 2 then so on..........
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post #9 of 18
11/22/06 at 4:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrouble77
I highly doubt that machine is going to have better rendering performance than my 64bit 3ghz dual core machine.

Who said it would have better performance? If you want to brag about your system, go somewhere else, where people actually care. My laptop could kill your machine in terms of performance, but thats not the point.

I bought the machine so I could develop and test native MIPS code (most handheld devices such as cell phones, pdas, etc use MIPS processors). Plus, I like IRIX, even if it is a now archaic OS.

And adewolf, you apparently know nothing about MIPS machines. They have a completley different architecture than x86 machines. 500MHz is one of the newest processors that SGI used. In terms of MIPS machines, it is NOT outdated. Hell, I still use my 66MHz SGI IRIS Indigo from time to time, and it runs fine for what I use it for.
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post #10 of 18
11/22/06 at 10:56am
Quote:
If you want to brag about your system, go somewhere else, where people actually care.
Personally I found the discussion interesting. He wasn't really caring about what you were using it for, so next time feel free to show a bit of restraint. Personally I think RISC had its day and missed it in the desktop market, which is what they were discussing, not the embedded, which is still considered specialized use. And since you were discussing IRIX it was reasonable to assume that you were looking to use it as a desktop machine. And of course for the record, while you can't install x86 linux on it you are correct, you certainly CAN install linux compiled for the MIPS processor. x86 is far from the only machine you can install linux on, and if you are doing development for the MIPS embedded processor, Linux or BSD would be closer to your target platform most likely unless you are planning on developing at the OS level, in which case I would say use those as this is a test platform. Now aside from that since most of SGIs market used to be the 3D rendering and virtualization market, and they used to be well known for it, BT's comment is perfectly in line with that.
Quote:
500MHz is one of the newest processors that SGI used.
Except SGI has officially pulled the plug on both MIPS based machines and IRIX. SGI apparently considers both outdated. I believe the last time you will be able to order those is next month, after that you won't be able to get them at all anymore.
Quote:
Hell, I still use my 66MHz SGI IRIS Indigo from time to time, and it runs fine for what I use it for.
Doesn't mean it is not outdated in terms of computer which tend to become outdated for most people in about a 5 year cycle. Outdated is a relative term, and is defined by each person speaking it. Seablade
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post #11 of 18
11/30/06 at 1:11pm
Congrats on the machine. We used to have an old SGI machine in college, but I can't really say I used it much. Here's someone who uses it as their workstation: http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/05/13/131257.shtml?tid=10

Next step forward: buy a linux cluster for rendering (http://www.linuxjournal.com/comment/reply/6339)
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post #12 of 18
11/30/06 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgilbs
If you want to brag about your system, go somewhere else, where people actually care.
jglibs, we usually discuss things like adults here, even when we disagree. You are obviously pretty new here so i'll ignore your post. BTW, nice laptop.

-bt
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post #13 of 18
12/1/06 at 5:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrouble77
jglibs, we usually discuss things like adults here, even when we disagree. You are obviously pretty new here so i'll ignore your post. BTW, nice laptop.

-bt

You guys are right, I was out of line with that comment. Sorry adewolf, I was just in a bad mood because I was frustrated with something else that had nothing to do with you, and I apologize.

Anyways, I got my machine on Monday and I'm very pleased with it so far. I really like IRIX a lot better than the Linux distros I've tried. so far. It seems more "professional" (ie, doesnt have a ton of eye candy) and stable. Once I get gcc working (which is a pita, because i gotta install the IRIX dev libraries, which i have, but are an older version than the OS version).

The only other problem I've had is IRIX's very spotty USB support. My system refuses to boot when a USB keyboard and mouse are plugged in(Dell standard USB keyboard and MS wireless mouse) Odd thing is when they are both connected via PS/2, the wireless mouse works great(scroll wheel and all) but the keyboard acts very odd. The left Ctrl key actually controls CAPS LOCK, the Left Alt key controls the "Ctrl" function and the caps lock key does nothing. Also, when I hit the up arrow key, it must send the wrong scan code, because when im in a terminal, it doesnt show the last command prompt entry, it just shows ^[[A. If I can fix these problems, it would be a perfect machine.

Also, as I mentioned before, I had IRIX running on an old(vintage 1992) SGI Indigo which ran it really well, and I even had a 20" CRT monitor(weighs like 100 lbs!). With my new Fuel, I can use a flat screen monitor, so everything looks much better/sharper than with the 15yr old CRT.

I downloaded some 3D graphical demos, and they run great on my system. I cant wait to try viewing HD video content, hopefully it will also perform well.

BTW, For anyone with an SGI system, I HIGHLY recommend checking out nekochan.net. It is without a doubt, the best source of info and help on Sgi systems and IRIX. They have even compiled IRIX versions of some very popular programs, like blender, firefox, iconbar, CDE, KDE, aterm, etc.
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post #14 of 18
1/9/07 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgilbs
Hey all, I just ordered myself a silicon graphics "fuel" visual workstation. http://www.sgi.com/products/workstations/fuel/
I hope you got a good deal, since it says that they are unavailable from December 2006.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgilbs
SGI machines use(or used to use) a MIPS Processor instead of the standard x86 or IA-64 processor. This means that you can't install Windows or x86 Linux on the machine.
No, it just means that if you do you need to compile everything from source and will be hunting around for special drivers a lot. The MIPS processor has gcc just like every other processor thats ever been invented
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgilbs
These systems come with IRIX, a proprietary version of UNIX (actually the first version to use a graphical OS - called "4WDM") that is optimized for video/3D applications. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with IRIX(good or bad) that they would like to share.
I used to use it, starting with IRIX 4.x and ending with IRIX 6.2 - after that my SGI Indigo2 workstation became an expensive purple doorstop and I moved to using a Windows NT 4.0 workstation. I do still miss drag and drop of directories onto file open dialog boxes. They also had vector icons way back before they became popular. Apart from that, meh. Good luck with the adventure, though. And 12bits per component graphics is very nice to have, if you can find software that supports it. What are you planning to run on this, or did you just get it out of curiosity or because of a fantastic discount?
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post #15 of 18
1/9/07 at 8:53pm
Apparently there are already linux mips ports for SGI workstations
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post #16 of 18
1/9/07 at 9:49pm
jgibs...one thing that caught my eye is that you dont like linux because you feel the desktop environments ahve way too much eye candy? this puzzles me quite a bit, what distro did you try? as a developer i'd think you'd prefer to install gentoo and get a simple desktop like icewm or fluxbox (maybe xfce if you're feeling generous) ... unlike kde/gnome those lack all kinds of eye candy

*goes back to using fully loaded gnome with beryl and everything*
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post #17 of 18
1/10/07 at 2:57pm
I used to own an Indy workstation with IRIX installed on it. I used to just tinker with it. In hind sight, I wish I spent the money on a nice PC.

Oh well, at least I got to play around with it for a while.
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post #18 of 18
1/22/07 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by abf
jgibs...one thing that caught my eye is that you dont like linux because you feel the desktop environments ahve way too much eye candy? this puzzles me quite a bit, what distro did you try? as a developer i'd think you'd prefer to install gentoo and get a simple desktop like icewm or fluxbox (maybe xfce if you're feeling generous) ... unlike kde/gnome those lack all kinds of eye candy

*goes back to using fully loaded gnome with beryl and everything*

This was sort of my thought as well... kind of the same reason that it's a bit redundant to install different distros based on the WM they are using.

But whatever, to each his own... I'm willing to bet that you can get whatever WM IRIX uses on a *nix box as well.

-olly
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