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Rethink the Laptop

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
It's about time we see a third category for PC's. There are many of us out here who need full fledged capabilities on the road, and would rather not suffer with the problems currently associated with cutting edge laptops (lousy keyboards, touchpads, burnout components, poor upgradability, slower disk speeds, lack of added slots etc.). Although we understand the need for laptops for certain users, many of us travel, plug in, and use our laptops like portable desktops (just less functional ones).

I believe it is time for one computer. A true desktop replacement. if it is 20 lbs, so be it. Smaller form factor case (all replaceable full sized components) fold up monitor (or duals), no touch pad needed, full size key board (should seperate from the box). No integrated keyboard nescesarry. No batteries needed. It doesn't need to be small, just small enough for an overhead bin on the airlines, and packaged with a integrated hard shell "Pelican" type case to protect it.

I have owned laptops for seven years, and have used mine on the batteries twice. I never travel without a full sized keyboard and a mouse. Now, with dual monitor capability, I plug in to my CRT at home.

Small is fine, but it doesn't bother me to have a 20 or 25 lb bag. Not nearly as much as maintaining two complete systmes that should be one. It is time for portable power users to mean something. This may not be the thing for the masses, but for a core smaller Co. like Alien or Sager, this could be a relatively huge market.

Consider it.
post #2 of 45

It's heading that way

Check out the Acer Aspire 1700 series. Almost exactly what you want and at a paltry 16 lbs. I'm waiting for a few reviews before I buy one.
post #3 of 45
I doubt it might be true.
Laptop as it is called should go on your lap - try to do this with 20 lbs rock.
Maybe it is strange for you, but I prefer to type on my Dell X200 keyboard. Touchpad - thats other case - but you can get use to it. Maybe you didn't have wright laptop yet.
Have you ever seen the aluminium Powerbook G4 or something of that quality?

Regards
post #4 of 45
I wrote an e-mail to Sager and Clevo this morning asking them to make the 8790 an inch thicker so the air flow is better.

The reason I want the laptop instead of the Shuttle, is because everything is together. With the shuttle, you still need a seperate monitor, and couldn't use it on a plane.

I don't care if the 8790 weighs 20 lbs. I'm only going to travel a few times a year.

Make a "gaming case" or "cool case" for people looking to replace a desktop with a lap top. Make it have exhaust vents so air can flow out the left side. Put more space between the keyboard and chasis so it stays cool. I'm not interested in paying 3k so I can hear a fan cycle on and off every few minutes.
post #5 of 45
Thread Starter 

supersize it

Thanks Ran,
But let's lose they keyboard, touchpad, batteries, add pci slots (better yet Express in a few months), full size 10,000 rpm hard drive, etc, etc. I carry a 60 lb pack when I go hiking, and my wife totes around a 50 lb kid half of the day. A heavy computer is not the end of the world. I am not suggesting Laptop abolishment. This would be a new breed. Power gamers, traveling product creation folks, Video editors, businessmen etc want the best with them. Let's be serious, a guy who is going to overclock his system, liquid cool it, mod his own drivers etc. is not hung up on ten pounds where performance is concerned. He wants to show up, plug inb, and blow minds. As a business guy myself, I want to show up, and have 100% performance. Out.
post #6 of 45
I think I saw an alienware that fits the description you are suggesting. Not sure whether its a pro or gaming machine. It might be a server, I don't know I saw it a long time ago. I remember it was like a small case with usb ports..
post #7 of 45
Thread Starter 

Louder than a weed eater

The new sager sounds like the hand dryer in a bus stop men's room. Laptops should be portable, comfortable mobile devices. No sense in dressing one up for the ball when it can't dance. Let's see a division. One product for portable immediate usibility, another for core travel users. When the fan in the new model kicks into high, you need to weight the top of the machine to keep it from hovering around the room.
post #8 of 45
Problem there is you're pretty much talking about a desktop, especially with the PCI boards bit, that thing would be huge, and if it's going to be as big as the desktop you might as well put your desktop in a suitcase and carry that whereever you go. It is conceivably possible to convert an aluminium case into a desktop chassis, in fact I'm sure it's been done, you could even build an LCD into the opening side.

Frankly you havent said anything that couldnt be constituted as just a straighforward desktop apart from a foldout monitor, and as I've said it wouldnt be difficult to mod a desktop with the LCD of your choice. If you go with a micro ATX form factor it could even be fairly small by desktop standards.

Edit: If by the new sager you mean the 8790, may I ask whether you actually have one? I'd be very surprised if your description isnt a gross exaggeration considering it's supposed to be quieter and cooler to the touch than the 4780 was, and that was no louder than the dells and alienwares etc. Desktop replacement laptops are built for a niche market, you want an all out performer get a desktop and lug it around or a shuttle to make the job easier, if you're after a silent portable notebook those are out too. Saying the sagers shouldnt be built because they dont fit your definition of a notebook is entirely contradicted by the existence of this forum and its many happy clevo users. There are a lot of people for whom these notebooks are perfect.
post #9 of 45
Thread Starter 

Form Factor

Not Quite,
Take a 17" (or better, 19") lappy and add 3" of depth. With no batteries, Keyboard and touchpad, that is plenty of room. A fold up monitor (or better, two), and snap off mouse and keyboard in an integrated product with specifically designed protective case (either integrated or seperable) makes for a consise, and marketable product. Most users do not want to build their own box, set it up for transport, etc. We want to buy and use. I agree that this product will be more desktop than laptop, but many of us don't want to pull out the behemoth Dell box every time we want to go on a plane.
post #10 of 45
post #11 of 45
speaking of cubes...what ever happened to the Apple Power Mac G4 cube? lmao

http://www.cubeowner.com/gallery/setups

eheh
post #12 of 45
Why don't you get a shuttle and a flat panel and call it a day. What you want is called a desktop, you should stick with them.

Older macs used to come integrated as you specified: This is what you want and so cheap!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4604
post #13 of 45
I saw one person who put an LCD monitor and keyboard inside a regular case so he could travel to lan events. One. But it was a tiny keyboard and the screen was kinda small.
And I've never seen anyone get a desktop to run on batteries, The power requirements are too high, especially with the monitor.
So what gaming fans are asking for, is a cutting edge lap top, that has more room for air flow. That would solve the fan noise/hot keyboard issue. And no, I don't have an 8790 yet, waiting for WUXGA. At first I said an inch thicker. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they made it 3 inches thicker, and put a bracket on the side so the end user can put a hard drive cooling fan on it.
post #14 of 45
Maybe you are looking for something like this \

Hope this helps.
post #15 of 45
Do a search for lunchbox portable pc and you will get a lot of hits. Though the initial link I posted was of an outdated PC, you will find new ones that have P4s in them.

Like this one

I think what you want is already available. These have a weight of around 20lbs just like you asked for.
post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by robvia
I saw one person who put an LCD monitor and keyboard inside a regular case so he could travel to lan events. One. But it was a tiny keyboard and the screen was kinda small.
And I've never seen anyone get a desktop to run on batteries, The power requirements are too high, especially with the monitor.
So what gaming fans are asking for, is a cutting edge lap top, that has more room for air flow. That would solve the fan noise/hot keyboard issue. And no, I don't have an 8790 yet, waiting for WUXGA. At first I said an inch thicker. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they made it 3 inches thicker, and put a bracket on the side so the end user can put a hard drive cooling fan on it.
Have you looked at the dell XPS (the laptop, not the desktop)? It's pretty much an 8790 but its thicker and probably cooler. I dont think you're going to find exactly what you're looking for because mose people are happy to put up with some fan noise in exchange for some portability. They really arent that bad though IMO.
post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enderet
Do a search for lunchbox portable pc and you will get a lot of hits. Though the initial link I posted was of an outdated PC, you will find new ones that have P4s in them.

Like this one

I think what you want is already available. These have a weight of around 20lbs just like you asked for.
Great idea, had never heard of these before. Gamers never talk about them. Yes, I would need cutting edge parts inside, and I would still want the 17" WUXGA screen. Doesn't run on batteries, so no showing off on the plane ride, but it's an idea. Then again, I wonder if they would allow it on the plane as a laptop. Currently, airlines allow 1 carry on and 1 bag (camera, laptop). Yeah, I could carry the lunch box and check all bags, but I don't like to do that.

And yes, I did look at the Dell XPS, but I'm only interested in Sager.
post #18 of 45
Thread Starter 

You bet

Thanks for that. I am aware of the Lunchbox market, but am more interested in having a substantial company behind it. Plus, they always feel thrown together. I look to Alien and Sager because they produce well engineered products with cutting edge parts and a fallback. A Hybrid is needed. WE don't want to have to go off the grid to find it. Plus a little cool factor goes a long way. We want it all, and portable. Build it, and they will come.
post #19 of 45
NGT, I couldn't agree with you more, with the exception of the battery power but that capacity is not expensive, weighty nor hard to include so I don't see it as a problem. Mainboards run on 12 volts anyway, so its just a matter of bypassing the transformers in the power supply (which I would make external). For an idea of what you are talking about take a look at this: http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/attacheserver/

I realize its not the full monty of what you are asking for but its a long step or three down that road. I've been playing with the idea of an attache-computer for the last year or so. Something about 14" x 19" x 3", about the size of a typical attache case. A finned aluminum case connected via heatpipes to the major heat sources so you don't need the fans. That size will also allow for a 22" wide screen LCD or better yet, an OLED display, takes less energy, produces less heat, provides a much better image (faster, brighter, higher contrast), plus only 1/8" thick. Perhaps make the lid a folded membrane radiator to assist with dissappation of heat, connected to the guts with a heatpipe hinge (http://www.thermacore.com/pdfs/adv_hpt.pdf). Get rid of the legacy tech ports, providing maybe three or four of the new ExpressCARD slots. Meanwhile, inside, there would be a standard PCI Express BTX mainboard but with right-angle connectors for the slots. With that depth, there'd be enough room for three add-in cards. The video card would be oriented the opposite way, over the CPU with a major heat collector between the CPU and the GPU, connected via heatpipe to the case and lid radiator. If necessary, put some peltier elements on the downside of the heatpipes to assist in dispersal to the radiators. I'd want a built in keyboard, something like on the bigger SAGERs, I use that all the time and its fine. Of course, I'd make it detachable and wireless. And there should be more than enough room on that big deck to include a real touch screen digitizer screen, small but useful. I happen to like touch pads, I'm a touchy-feely kind of guy, but that could be an option with just a mouse pad for you mousey types. That would fold out and/or be detachable as well. Naturally, there would be a series of modular SmartBays, maybe four altogether, on one side or the other (easy to make left and right handed models), those would be 5/8" x 5-1/4" so they'd take just about any standard drive there is. Again, all plug and play, hot swappable. Just a matter of getting the brackets to mount them. On the other side (not the back) would be the I/O ports, that's so you don't have to get up and look back there to plug stuff in. It should be possible to make the add-in cards accessible without taking the thing apart, making them pretty much plug and play as well. On the bottom, there could a connector for a battery plate. Kokam has a 3.7 volt, 70 AH LIon battery that measures 1/4" x 13" x 18". The battery is optional, there would be a small UPS (uninterruptible power supply) inside, maybe 15 minutes worth). That Kokam has a capacity of 250 watt hours, which would give roughly an hour to 90 minutes of run time, depending on your usage. Making those battery plates stackable would give you modular battery time if you wanted it. Two would get you through most any DVD, three would get you through most anything else. Provided, of course, you wanted battery power. You could just go without. Adding that ability would cost less than $20 and a few ounces and there's lots of people that would want it. Plus, being native 12v, running it off your car would be no sweat, provided you have the battery and alternator for it, most current cars do, though you might not want to run the AC and headlights plus your 600 watt sound system at the same time.

Its all doable, all of those parts either exist or will exist within a year. They will all be off the shelf items. Substitute an LCD for the OLED screen, and a current top end PCI-ATX mainboard for the BTX-PCI Express mainboard and a couple of other minor items and you could do it right now, all with off the shelf items excepting the radiators and heatpipe hinges. You'd have to get those made up special but they can be done. Probably want to make your case too though you could modify a photography case. Cost, probably not much different than a new 8790 with the works. Most of the cost would be the components. Time, probably take 20 hours or so to construct it. Figure a couple of hours a night, maybe two weeks. I have a lot of it modeled already in 3D, I'd have been done last summer but I saw the coming changes to PCI Express, BTX, 64 bit, etc, so there was no point in finishing up what would become obsolete before I got it built. I am waiting for the release of PCI BTX mainboards with Socket 939 to get the dimensions of those to model them and finish it up. The Socket 939 is because I'd want to use an Athlon 64 FX processor. 64 bit is going to happen and its going to happen much faster and much bigger than most anybody thinks. Intel is going to suck a lot of wind on this one. I think AMD is finally going to show a profit and the next year its going to be a whopper. Then again, I wouldn't believe anything I say, after all, I've never made a killing in the stock market previously, no reason to believe that's going to change.

Anyway, that's my dos centavos and where I'm going. If things work out, I hope to build it this fall, maybe start on it this summer. Of course, I will post pics. If not, then I'll be buying what I hope will be an Athlon powered SAGER next January.
post #20 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARQUISDARQUIS
NGT, I couldn't agree with you more, with the exception of the battery power but that capacity is not expensive, weighty nor hard to include so I don't see it as a problem. Mainboards run on 12 volts anyway, so its just a matter of bypassing the transformers in the power supply (which I would make external). For an idea of what you are talking about take a look at this: http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/attacheserver/

I realize its not the full monty of what you are asking for but its a long step or three down that road. I've been playing with the idea of an attache-computer for the last year or so. Something about 14" x 19" x 3", about the size of a typical attache case. A finned aluminum case connected via heatpipes to the major heat sources so you don't need the fans. That size will also allow for a 22" wide screen LCD or better yet, an OLED display, takes less energy, produces less heat, provides a much better image (faster, brighter, higher contrast), plus only 1/8" thick. Perhaps make the lid a folded membrane radiator to assist with dissappation of heat, connected to the guts with a heatpipe hinge (http://www.thermacore.com/pdfs/adv_hpt.pdf). Get rid of the legacy tech ports, providing maybe three or four of the new ExpressCARD slots. Meanwhile, inside, there would be a standard PCI Express BTX mainboard but with right-angle connectors for the slots. With that depth, there'd be enough room for three add-in cards. The video card would be oriented the opposite way, over the CPU with a major heat collector between the CPU and the GPU, connected via heatpipe to the case and lid radiator. If necessary, put some peltier elements on the downside of the heatpipes to assist in dispersal to the radiators. I'd want a built in keyboard, something like on the bigger SAGERs, I use that all the time and its fine. Of course, I'd make it detachable and wireless. And there should be more than enough room on that big deck to include a real touch screen digitizer screen, small but useful. I happen to like touch pads, I'm a touchy-feely kind of guy, but that could be an option with just a mouse pad for you mousey types. That would fold out and/or be detachable as well. Naturally, there would be a series of modular SmartBays, maybe four altogether, on one side or the other (easy to make left and right handed models), those would be 5/8" x 5-1/4" so they'd take just about any standard drive there is. Again, all plug and play, hot swappable. Just a matter of getting the brackets to mount them. On the other side (not the back) would be the I/O ports, that's so you don't have to get up and look back there to plug stuff in. It should be possible to make the add-in cards accessible without taking the thing apart, making them pretty much plug and play as well. On the bottom, there could a connector for a battery plate. Kokam has a 3.7 volt, 70 AH LIon battery that measures 1/4" x 13" x 18". The battery is optional, there would be a small UPS (uninterruptible power supply) inside, maybe 15 minutes worth). That Kokam has a capacity of 250 watt hours, which would give roughly an hour to 90 minutes of run time, depending on your usage. Making those battery plates stackable would give you modular battery time if you wanted it. Two would get you through most any DVD, three would get you through most anything else. Provided, of course, you wanted battery power. You could just go without. Adding that ability would cost less than $20 and a few ounces and there's lots of people that would want it. Plus, being native 12v, running it off your car would be no sweat, provided you have the battery and alternator for it, most current cars do, though you might not want to run the AC and headlights plus your 600 watt sound system at the same time.

Its all doable, all of those parts either exist or will exist within a year. They will all be off the shelf items. Substitute an LCD for the OLED screen, and a current top end PCI-ATX mainboard for the BTX-PCI Express mainboard and a couple of other minor items and you could do it right now, all with off the shelf items excepting the radiators and heatpipe hinges. You'd have to get those made up special but they can be done. Probably want to make your case too though you could modify a photography case. Cost, probably not much different than a new 8790 with the works. Most of the cost would be the components. Time, probably take 20 hours or so to construct it. Figure a couple of hours a night, maybe two weeks. I have a lot of it modeled already in 3D, I'd have been done last summer but I saw the coming changes to PCI Express, BTX, 64 bit, etc, so there was no point in finishing up what would become obsolete before I got it built. I am waiting for the release of PCI BTX mainboards with Socket 939 to get the dimensions of those to model them and finish it up. The Socket 939 is because I'd want to use an Athlon 64 FX processor. 64 bit is going to happen and its going to happen much faster and much bigger than most anybody thinks. Intel is going to suck a lot of wind on this one. I think AMD is finally going to show a profit and the next year its going to be a whopper. Then again, I wouldn't believe anything I say, after all, I've never made a killing in the stock market previously, no reason to believe that's going to change.

Anyway, that's my dos centavos and where I'm going. If things work out, I hope to build it this fall, maybe start on it this summer. Of course, I will post pics. If not, then I'll be buying what I hope will be an Athlon powered SAGER next January.
Wow Marquis that seems like a pretty big undertaking. It would be interesting nontheless. Maybe if it were to be a success you could start selling them on the side... hehe I wonder what it would be called.
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