Why Linux? - Page 5  

GS, your cons are probably correct for novice users but it is all very arguable depending on one's level of expertise. First, I never have to deal with tarballs, etc because I use Gentoo's portage system (similar to Debian's apt-get). Second, the command line is an incredibly powerful tool - if you take the time to learn. Third, for the most part, there is usually no such thing as looking for drivers - the kernel sources either have or do not have support for a particular piece of hardware. Fourth, to get MP3 and DVD play back, all you have to do is install xmms and ogle; with Gentoo's Portage, it is as simple as 'emerge xmms' and 'emerge ogle'. Fifth, 802.11g wireless support is getting better with each release of ndiswrapper (the Windows' driver emulator) while 802.11b support is no problem at all because most drivers have long been written for that standard. And finally, eighth (agree on 6 and 9 while 7 is missing from your list), all that is needed to get 3D working (again with Portage or a similar package manager) is the ATI driver package, which can be installed with 'emerge ati-drivers'.

As it has been mentioned before, Linux as it is right now is for the enthusiast; if you want to, you'll get it working.

Mikhail

Ok I am willing to give Gentoo a try...

Any idea what the latest version is and where I can download the iso ??

www.linuxiso.org has it but I dont know if it is the lates version

Yes - the cons are arguable - But I dont care about you professionals out there. I am talking from a novice user and home-user perspective. My mother should be able to operate linux without problems...that is something windows offers.

If you operate servers and write badass code on a regular basis then you dont fall into my radar range...

Grab whatever they have. Gentoo is such that you can use any recent install media and emerge sync it to get the latest available packages. Your best bet would be here. http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors.xml pick you closest mirror. Download the Install manual also you WILL need it.

Exactly my point, LMAO. Btw, careful when you talk about your mother or grandmother being able to use Windows. My mother is afraid of pushing the power button, let alone of using Windows.

Mikhail

Ha ha ha

Truth be told : More people who fall into the "n00b" category can use windows only because it is accessible and is installed default on a majority of systems.

But honestly - when I send my dad a mp3 player or camera and he figures out where the cables go - thats about all her has to do...windows does the rest.

Linux sadly cannot do that at this point of time

The ease of use factor is another questionable area of this discussion. If you REALLY have absolutely no idea what your doing when you sit down at a computer, there are plenty of Linux distributions that may suit your needs.
Lindows OS, for example, is aimed for newbies to make the migration.
Off-topic, they were recently forced into changing their company's name to Linspire. Guess why..yep. You got it. After a two year lawsuit headed by Microsoft.
Money-hungry monsters, as if Lindows is some type of commercial threat or something, like they're _really_ going to lose money, like a lot of people were actually switching to Lindows..lol . It just goes to show what type of threat Microsoft thinks Linux can become to the desktop market, and it has been this way since day One.
"Windows [noun]
A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell, to a 16-bit patch, to an 8-bit operating system, originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition."

Anyway, there are _plenty_ of distros out there aimed at the newcomer with great hardware support. In fact, there are well damn near 300 out there. Pick one, it's all about choice.

Do you know why the Linux mascot is a penguin?
Because Linux can swim, it just can't fly yet...
Any idiot can open a Window...

Lindows But how can MS do anything about it ??

I have windows in my home and as a professional (note the use of windows, home and professional) I dont care if MS comes after me. I'll shoot BG in the head and tell the rest of them to split the cash

Ok now that we have all settled down...lets do something constructive for the forums and put together a thread solely aimed at teaching us noobs how to compile a Kernel for our Sager machines (and other machines as well). For this we will need volunteers who have:-

1] The specific system
2] The un-specific knowledge

Everybody with me on this? I want to create a Linux based OS not specific to ANY distro out there which is tuned specifically with our computers in mind...

If anyone feels this is a bad place to begin - let me know and perhaps we can start off with a simple Redhat, Gentoo, Mandrake installation as a step by step procedure.

Wait - lets have this like an online course...we need instructors and we need to go a few steps everyday. The guys who fall behind neednt worry coz the others will pull them back up.

Make this a sticky and invite people to join in. Posting only allowed by mods and volunteers.

Lets give linux its due!!

Woah, GS, youre getting a little too excited. I already see the dark mountain of work awaiting me when I finish my coop term and go back to school in 2 weeks. That aside, however, (and without being negative,) there is really not much new to do in teaching Linux to people with our hardware than listing out the issues pertaining to our hardware, which we have already done for a number of distros in this forum. Meanwhile, many great authors have written lots of books on the topic of learning Linux, available in printed form or freely distributed on the Internet. Perhaps the useful thing to do is to create a resource list for people new to Linux. One really cant expect to be able to just jump in without doing at least some amount of research. (As an example the web site of your chosen distro is usually a very useful resource.)

Mikhail

P.S. If you dont already do so, I recommend reading Slashdot(.org). Its a great news resource for us technical people. Plus, the anti-MS threads are simply hilareous.

From personal experience, Linux is harder to use than Windows. I am a kid and the first OS i ever touched is Windows, so that means after spending 3-5 years on it u really kinda depend on it. Even though sometimes Windows sucks ass and such, it is hard for general public to switch to linux because it is an entire different interface. This is pretty much like PC vs MAC, some ppl find it hard to use Mac because they are not used to it, and there isn't much reason to switch to MAC or Linux because in Windows pretty much all the ordinary work can be done.

On the bottom note, which linux OS is worth getting? I want to give Linux a try but i dont know which one is better or more userfriendly than the others. You l33t ppl really needs to start helping us n00bs to adapt to better stuff :P

What I mean is - we start people off...give directions...everyone follows those steps and everyone helps everyone else. This way we have a bunch of people experiencing Linux hands on.

Books cost money and honestly - I have never learnt anything from a book...

Clonedancient - you can start with Redhat 9.0, Mandrake from www.linuxiso.org

If you start with Redhat you can download rpm's here : www.freshrpms.net


Installing rpms are easy...but why dont you just download Redhat 9.0 and wait till I get started on it in a couple of days...(next weekend actually)

Clonedancient, I guess in your case something like Redhat/Fedora or Mandrake would be best - a quick install and everything is done for you; basically like Windows - once everything is done, you boot into a nice GUI. That is, of course, if you want to actually install it on your hard drive (dual boot or not). As an alternative, just to play around, I strongly suggest trying Knoppix - its a full distribution on a single CD! Just put it in your tray and boot your machine; it will give you a fully funcitional desktop with lots of software without ever touching your hard drive, let alone your Windows partition(s). Get it via http://www.knoppix.net.

Mikhail

I have knoppix and it is awesome whenever I feel the "linux withdrawal symptoms"

doesnt need advanced hardware to run either...

Yeah. Its a priceless tool in a techie's toolbox. Or, any kind of a Linux LiveCD for that matter.

BTW, GS, saying "I have never learnt anything from a book" is really nothing to be proud of, eh?

Mikhail

LOL

but thats not really true is it? I have a RedHat BIBLE here Of course you guys may scoff at me but at times I find it quite useful.

But the rest of the time www.google.com is my friend!!

I'm eager to let this go. I understand that your feathers have been ruffled here, sometimes unnecessarily (though not by me, I think), and you're probably just in defensive mode... but to the above, not likely, since I've already identified myself as an amateur. IT professionals are a dime a dozen here.

Yes, and I also know that most businesses that use computers don't use them to run servers. MS works and outlook are as far as they need to go.

Don't you see that this is why your posts come off as arrogant? If we don't care to learn what YOU think we should learn, then there is something wrong with all of US. Business wants to be spoon-fed so they can go back to the business of making money.

I'm not a professional. What I bring to the "why linux" discussion is the perspective of a non-professional who has experience using multiple systems. Often, IT guys are too close to their products and forget the needs, abilities and desires of the rest of us. "No, a kernal is NOT a military rank!"

My feathers ruffled? Intgrspin, I'm not in the least bit stifled or defensive..(leeach brushes the dirt off his shoulder..)

Most businesses, huh? OK.

Your absolutely mistaken. I'm all about choice, besides, there are more users than you can count out there with this same point of view. If I come across sounding so indignantly arrogant, maybe it's because I'm directly disagreeing with yours. And if I'm not directly disagreeing with your point of view, then just what the hell _IS_ your stance in this discussion IntgrSpin?
Did you ever stop just for one second, and think, hmm maybe he is right, instead of attempting to find weak loopholes in my opinion?

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle (384-322 BC)

You forget that us "IT guys" are also home users, and are no more in love with our useful tools than we are with the Eagles blowing their chance at the SuperBowl, AGAIN. Your'e attempting to create an extremely wild, generalized stereotype, and it seems to me, that your'e reaching.

Aristotle was an idiot



































No - Seriously

Yes but here is the point - all that documentation has been written already on the Linuxdocs site. Why should we reproduce it here. People say linux is hard to install but they really should RTFM before goign off. This isnt a flame - just a personal peeve I have. Oh and mandrake has a GUI for installing SW if anyone cares.

Is it possible to have a linux back-end and a windows front-end ??

I want machine specific knowledge - not some general crap. Not everything works on my laptop and if you can help - fine. Otherwise please entertain your personal peeve's in private.

You have helped immensely in the past and I cannot ask any more of you. You are free to go

I will try to document my installation on the 8790 as far as possible so that others can give it a shot by clicking the links and following the procedures that I lay out. This should give them a fully functional OS and that is all that I care about.

I dont need to RTFM to install Linux. I can do that by myself. It is the "Search" for drivers and useful software for mp3' and DVD's that I am interested in.

Thank you for your cooperation. Case closed. This thread is useless and can be closed as well...