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G-Omaha's **8790 Review** Now Open To Questions and Comments - Page 6

post #101 of 228
3/24/04 at 5:38pm
Thread Starter 

Time to do surgery?? Heat Problem or Overtaxing the unit?

Well, I accomplished the longer test and the fans did not turn off after one hour. If the unit is turned off and the Caps-Lock and Num-Lock are blinking, the fans will stay on if the unit is on AC power.

In another thread (Sager General), an 8890 owner asked about the flashing light sequence. I pointed to a "heat problem", and sure enough that was the case. Afer he cleaned it up, the heat issue and the blinking lights went away.

I want to download far cry and use that and see what the temps do, before I monkey with the "innards". Probably Friday at best before I start digging.
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post #102 of 228
3/24/04 at 7:14pm
Thread Starter 

BIOS "CPU Clock Adjust" Doesn't Work

If this setting is enabled in BIOS and you bring up the system on batteries, the speed is reduced (2.7Ghz for my 3.4Ghz processor). You may "toggle" it to disabled, which would indicate that the processor will run at full speed even on batteries - NOT TRUE. You still get the "down clock" - 2.7Ghz in my case.
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post #103 of 228
3/24/04 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Omaha
If this setting is enabled in BIOS and you bring up the system on batteries, the speed is reduced (2.7Ghz for my 3.4Ghz processor). You may "toggle" it to disabled, which would indicate that the processor will run at full speed even on batteries - NOT TRUE. You still get the "down clock" - 2.7Ghz in my case.
Gary,

See if setting your power saving scheme to ALWAYS ON make a difference to the CPU speed. I seem to recall this being an issue with some other machines.
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post #104 of 228
3/24/04 at 7:23pm
Thread Starter 

Running on Battery - Temperature Causes Premature Shutdown

Well, I was trying to replicate my "Fans" test while totally on battery. I first observed that the "Full CPU" can not be used in battery mode. Then as I taxed the system, the temperature began to rise and the battery consumption was increasing. Then at 64C - WHAM!!!!!, the sytem shut down completely. The remaining battery power at this stage was 56%. I plugged in the power cord, rebooted and the battery power was still at 56%; however, the temperature was at 58C. After the unit ran for a couple of minutes the temperature was at a steady 47C. While on battey, the system was "Maxed out", HDD, DVD, large Network Download, and the Burnit tests were going on. I had the TV-Tuner in the intial "mix"; however, it crapped out the system, except for the sound part of the TV Channel that I was looking at.
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post #105 of 228
3/24/04 at 8:14pm
Thread Starter 

I think that I "Retarded" My Battery

Well its been over a half hour since I ran my battery tests and had the machine suddenly power down without warning. The battery remains at 56% (remaining - charging) and the battery light on the bottom of the LCD case is switching between a solid orange and a blinking orange. I tried to boot up under battery power - no luck - nothing happened. I hope that it's not fried; however, that appears to be the most likely conclusion at this time.
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post #106 of 228
3/24/04 at 9:18pm
Thread Starter 

Time to get advice from the "Pros from Dover"

I emailed Sager. I am concerned about the heat and battery issues. E-mail follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Mail
Gentlemen/Ladies,

I have a new Sager NP8790 that I ordered thru PC Torque on March 9th and received on March 18th. I have been testing this device and today, the battery appears to be malfunctioning. I was trying to accomplish a “stress test” on batteries and suddenly the computer shut down with the battery at 56%. I reconnected the power and now the battery light (lower part of the LCD) intermittently blinks on and off orange for a few minutes, then stays orange for about 30/40 seconds and repeats the blinking on/off sequence. The battery power indicator in windows remains unchanged at 56%. It looks like the battery got “fried” or lost its memory for some reason. Battery “charge” indicator has not changed for over a couple of hours or system on and off time.

Also, the machine appears to be running hot. I am using Mobile Meter to measure the temperatures. When I boot, the temperature is between 40/41C. Under mild use, internet connection, the temperature raises to over 50C. Then when I run anything that taxes the system, the temperature increases until it reaches 66C, at which time, the CAPS-Lock and NUM-Lock lights begin to flash and the fans accelerate to a very loud “high setting”. The temperature will start to go down and eventually settle somewhere between 58C and 61C with the fan constantly on high. If I shut down the laptop while the fans are on high, the laptop appears to power down; however, the fans remain on (at high) and stay that way (more than an hour) until the next time that I boot the system.

Please let me know how I should proceed - RMA battery or return the system? I have my reviews posted as G-Omaha in the PC Torque Forum. Configuration was ordered under the name of: ***Deleted***, Omaha, NE.

Thank You,

Gary
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post #107 of 228
3/24/04 at 10:22pm
Thread Starter 

Far Cry Downloaded and Played (Sort of)

I finally got Far Cry downloaded, it is huge (500MB) and I had to try multiple sites until I found one that had decent transfer rates.

Good News: It does play. I just did the sailing and swimming thing as I am not much of a game player.

Bad News: After about a minute of play my laptop went into the "Blinking Lights" and "High Fan" mode. This time I can feel the heat emitting from the unit. I stopped the game and the temperature was at 64C. This machine is running hot - too hot under the strain of the graphic games. I "played" less than two minutes.

I don't know about FPS and such as I didn't have that turned on (don't know how).
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post #108 of 228
3/24/04 at 11:42pm
Ouch. That sounds bad. If that notebook can't keep a decent temperature under the stress of a strong 3-D app like a game, it doesn't make a good desktop replacement. I am hoping it could be as a result of your battery misbehaving.
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post #109 of 228
3/24/04 at 11:54pm
Thread Starter 
It appears to be a bit hot; however, that's just my machine. Might just be the coupling of the CPU to the Heat Sink. I don't know as I have not opened that up yet and am waiting for guidance from Sager. The battery, I think is "out of the picture" on this issue and need to stress that the temperatures actually stabiliez at around 61C had I let it run a bit longer.
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post #110 of 228
3/25/04 at 12:16am
Ah, well, if they stay at a constant tempature like that while the game would be running for say an hour, then that wouldn't be so bad. Are you still going to investigate the other items on your list or are you just going to hold off on word back from Sager on the present problem first?
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post #111 of 228
3/25/04 at 2:20am

hmm

Do you know for certain 64deg C is too hot? My old Dell 8200 P4 2.4 registers 60-74 deg c for hours with no ill effect (and has for years). Are you getting BSOD's or video corruption at 64?
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post #112 of 228
3/25/04 at 7:14am
Under heavy gaming for over an hour, my MobilerMeter showed 56-58 the whole time -- I have never seen my 8790 go over 60 and I have never seen the flashing lights.

(No overclocking btw.)
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post #113 of 228
3/25/04 at 7:38am
Sounds like a poor heatsink, thermal paste job on Sager's part G-Omaha. There have been cases of equivalent high temps in the 8890 due to poor thermal coupling. Given what $tack$ said looks like your system needs some serious lapping and Artic Silver.
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post #114 of 228
3/25/04 at 12:14pm
Thread Starter 

Battery Update

The battery in Windows Power Meter still shows 56%. The Battery light on the bottom of the LCD is now completely off.

Unplagged the AC power and the computer immediately died. There is no power in this battery. Once I pugged the AC back in, that light come on again in the Solid Orange/Blinking Orange sequences.
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post #115 of 228
3/25/04 at 8:54pm
Thread Starter 

More on Fans - Copied from My Reply in Sager General

When the fans are in "Max" mode, and the CAPS-Lock and NUM-Lock lights are flashing, the fans are loud enough to hear from several rooms away. Right now I have a 20" Lasko Cyclone fan on at minimum setting (and it roars) and the fans in the 8790 are louder than that fan. When the temperature of the machine is 65C or less, then the sound levels are as Marquis indicated or lower. Overall, if it does't go in the "Max" mode, it is relatevely quit; however, once the "Max" mode is enabled, it is not shut down, etc.. until the machine temperature is less than 40C - and the fans will stay on even after you have shut off the machine. During the day the temperature is at about 72F; however, often goes above that depending on the outside temperature and cooking/baking activities in the Kitchen. In these cases, the temperature (Mobmeter) seldom reads less than 42C - even with the fans in "Max Mode".

I just forced the unit to "cool" to 40C by placing an "Ice Pack" near the intakes and "tipped" the laptop to a 45 Degree Angle. The Fan immediately "kicked off" at 40C. The when the temperature increased to 49C, I heard a Whosh for about a second and the fans kicked into low mode. I can hear them; however, barely (Needed to shut off the Cyclone and reduce the volume on the TV - because now it is just too loud) in order to hear the fan noise.
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post #116 of 228
3/25/04 at 8:57pm
Thread Starter 

Response To My E-mail From Yesterday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom@PCTORQUE
I would definitely contact Sager about these problems. You can reach their tech support at websupport@sagernotebook.com, or at 800-741-2219.
Sager has yet to respond.

Thanks, Tom, for your quick response.
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post #117 of 228
3/25/04 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Omaha
When the fans are in "Max" mode, and the CAPS-Lock and NUM-Lock lights are flashing, the fans are loud enough to hear from several rooms away.
...
I'am sorry to tell you, but that's what I reported weeks ago here about the Clevo D870P when I reviewed one of the first available models in europe. Those babys get hot (depends also slightly on how big the assembled CPU is) and they are very loud too when their fans kick in. However, the noise is much related to the quality of the build in fans and their controlled rotating speed etc.

Also the 8790 chassis when compared to the chassis of the 8890 and 5680 is more flat, which looks nice but won't be optimal for accumulating and circulating the heat. Also don't forget that the GPU of the 8790 in accompany of a huge CPU (greetings from Prescott) will produce even more heat than you actually recognize. - Look at the Dell XPS for example, these have a three times bigger (higher) chassis and even they suffer from heat problems.

However, I hope that Sager and Clevo together can improve the notebooks and especially your somehow odd behaving one into the right direction.
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post #118 of 228
3/25/04 at 11:21pm
Question, how can one tell if they are suffering from similar problems? I have yet to find a program that will truely stress the machine. I also don't lay it flat on any surface; it is tilted up at 35* on a podium pad from Targus. My power brick gets hot when gaming and its fan only kicks on when a sudden load (a game loads) engages. I have the brick suspended in a similar fashion as the notebook to alivate the heat. So far no charging or battery problems, and the keys on the keyboard only get really warm, but not hot.

What are your exact symptoms?
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post #119 of 228
3/25/04 at 11:41pm
Thread Starter 
SEMC,

Download the Burnit software from:

http://www.passmark.com/products/bit.htm

Then run multiple iterations of it. For the 1st test you can enable the 2d/3d graphics and disk tests. For the others you will need to disable these as or they will fail - no problem but the tests will failure under the summary. These tests will run 15 clock minutes.

DO NOT RUN THESE ON BATTERY POWER as the batteries appear to be unable to support "Full Load" of the system for an extended amount of time.

Exact problem (and I'm not sure it is) is that the system appears to be going into "Overload Protection Mode" as far as heat is concerned and then never gets out of that mode until the temperature is less than 41C. Problem is that it never gets that low and even at startup is over that temperature.

I am using MobMeter to track temperature. Additionally, the blinking (and undocumented) CAP-Locks and Num-Locks indicate "WARNING, WARNING - WILL ROBINSON" type of thing and appears to indicate that the processer is overheating. Now, if the manual had this indication in it and explained what it was, my discomfort factor might be much less.

All things being said, it appears as if my temperatures exceed those of "others". That is central to my concern, as well, as not wanting to burnout a $3k machine in the first couple of weeks or years.
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post #120 of 228
3/25/04 at 11:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krobotkin
I'am sorry to tell you, but that's what I reported weeks ago here about the Clevo D870P when I reviewed one of the first available models in europe. Those babys get hot (depends also slightly on how big the assembled CPU is) and they are very loud too when their fans kick in. However, the noise is much related to the quality of the build in fans and their controlled rotating speed etc.

Also the 8790 chassis when compared to the chassis of the 8890 and 5680 is more flat, which looks nice but won't be optimal for accumulating and circulating the heat. Also don't forget that the GPU of the 8790 in accompany of a huge CPU (greetings from Prescott) will produce even more heat than you actually recognize. - Look at the Dell XPS for example, these have a three times bigger (higher) chassis and even they suffer from heat problems.

However, I hope that Sager and Clevo together can improve the notebooks and especially your somehow odd behaving one into the right direction.
Must have missed that review feature of the 8790 (I saw the ones in GS's thread and they ust mentions "hot" but did not qualify how "hot was "hot" or what behaviors the configuration displayed). Can you point me to the thread(s) that do that? Did your evaluation have the blinking lights and what were the temperatures when they started and ended. Also what is the temperature immediately after the system was booted (1st time for the day) - please include the ambient temperature so that I may compare it to my situation.

I'm not saying, at this time, that the heat is unacceptable; however, there are indications that it may be, and that is why I am persueing this - be it a fan or CPU issue.

Please let me know. Thanks.

Gary
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