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What happened to Bal'thzar? - Page 2  

post #21 of 108
1/16/07 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WackyT
Did NBF ever try to work a business agreement out with the resellers before banning them?

Did NBF ever receive any correspondence from Dell for the actions of the resellers?

We are in regular contact with various laptop companies - Dell included. I can't say much about that, though. I am sure you understand.

There will be a reseller section coming soon where resellers will be free to post deals for NBFers. We believe very much in making sure that members here get the best deals possible. We have lots of great things planned. We just want to make sure that it's clear when it's someone getting rid of their old stuff versus a company selling their products.

I know that the natural tendency is to think that we are somehow trying to wrong everyone. Trust me when I say that it's complicated and there is never a perfect solution.

Thanks for understanding, all.
post #22 of 108
1/16/07 at 7:22pm
So maybe I'm not seeing everything here, but I don't understand why it was necessary to completely ban the guy. He was a great addition to the community, and to lose him hurts the site in ways other than his reselling. I can understand not wanting him to be selling on here, as I always doubted the legality of it, but to ban him seems to be harsh to me. It's widely known that the admins read many users' private messages, so if he would continue to sell through PMs after you shutting down his bulk selling that maybe would warrant a ban; but to just ban all resellers simply because they took advantage of the economic opportunity that was given them might be harsh. But, whatever. It's not the first time I've disagreed with the management here.
post #23 of 108
1/16/07 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLC
So maybe I'm not seeing everything here, but I don't understand why it was necessary to completely ban the guy. He was a great addition to the community, and to lose him hurts the site in ways other than his reselling. I can understand not wanting him to be selling on here, as I always doubted the legality of it, but to ban him seems to be harsh to me. It's widely known that the admins read many users' private messages, so if he would continue to sell through PMs after you shutting down his bulk selling that maybe would warrant a ban; but to just ban all resellers simply because they took advantage of the economic opportunity that was given them might be harsh. But, whatever. It's not the first time I've disagreed with the management here.

If you don't like it here, feel free to leave through the exit provided.

In addition, possibly, the reason for the ban was so that management did not half to comb through possibly hundreds of PM's per day to find people doing shady things. Being a janitor to make the people of this website isn't always a fun job but it has to be done by all of us CR's, Mods and Admins at times. We would prefer not adding extra workload to the schedule. To tell you all the truth, if they were here for more than just reselling maybe they would have created a new account to help the people of NBF. From what is seen, I don't think any have, this website was a business to them.
post #24 of 108
1/16/07 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLC
It's widely known that the admins read many users' private messages, so if he would continue to sell through PMs after you shutting down his bulk selling that maybe would warrant a ban; but to just ban all resellers simply because they took advantage of the economic opportunity that was given them might be harsh. But, whatever. It's not the first time I've disagreed with the management here.

Um, that's not true - we don't read PMs. We do, however, have people send us messages of what goes on in PMs if they feel it is questionable or should be brought to our attention.

As I said before, after 4 years of doing this, we have learned that people don't just *stop*. We know this not because we read their messages, but rather because attentive members would ask us, "Hey, weren't these people supposed to stop selling?"

The case with Bal was that what he was doing was NOT congruent with Dell's TOS. THAT is the reason he was banned.

As with actual resellers, they get warnings, and more warnings, and then they are banned. I understand that this isn't public info, but y'all really don't want to see how many warnings go out and how many people totally ignore them. Fortunately, our software logs all actions, so it's clear what has gone on and when. It's just not public knowledge.
post #25 of 108
1/16/07 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLC
So maybe I'm not seeing everything here, but I don't understand why it was necessary to completely ban the guy. He was a great addition to the community, and to lose him hurts the site in ways other than his reselling. I can understand not wanting him to be selling on here, as I always doubted the legality of it, but to ban him seems to be harsh to me. It's widely known that the admins read many users' private messages, so if he would continue to sell through PMs after you shutting down his bulk selling that maybe would warrant a ban; but to just ban all resellers simply because they took advantage of the economic opportunity that was given them might be harsh. But, whatever. It's not the first time I've disagreed with the management here.
This same accusation was made a year or so ago and I believe it was Adam who posted reasons why it is NOT done. They were technical reasons, actually, not simply a matter of admins wanting, or not wanting to read other folks' PM's. I'm guessing that this is probably a sensitive subject, and would recommend caution in your comments. Not sure that Craig or other admins would be as gracious as Laura with their own responses to this sort of allegation, ROLC.
post #26 of 108
1/16/07 at 8:58pm
Seems like the whole NBF army has shown up to defend their heavy handedness in this matter.
post #27 of 108
1/16/07 at 9:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WackyT
Seems like the whole NBF army has shown up to defend their heavy handedness in this matter.

Would you defend yourself if you were being commented on by people? I think you would.

*pulls out colt M4*
post #28 of 108
1/16/07 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WackyT
Seems like the whole NBF army has shown up to defend their heavy handedness in this matter.
Seems that detractors, like yourself, have much to say which needs to be addressed. There is no army, either, just people trying to clarify misleading, incorrect "information" about a forum and other people about whom we happen to care.
post #29 of 108
1/16/07 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura@NBF
For the record, as stated, PCTorque DOES NOT OWN THESE FORUMS. Any decision made here has nothing to do with any other entity.
What's the deal with the PC Torque banner in the Sager section? And what about the forum that is dominated by PC Torque threads?

Just asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WackyT
Well, it might be time to start frequenting the other Notebook forum. If anyone needs to find it, do a Google search on the banned user's name this thread is about, and it's the third link down.

Haha, that forum blows. You can't say the word "e-penis" or "wtf" or "omfg." If you call someone stupid they lower your rep. It's too PC there, they suck the fun out of the forum. Anything remotely offensive is either locked or edited.
post #30 of 108
1/16/07 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickster
Haha, that forum blows. You can't say the word "e-penis" or "wtf" or "omfg." If you call someone stupid they lower your rep. It's too PC there, they suck the fun out of the forum. Anything remotely offensive is either locked or edited.

OK. And a Communistic dictatorship is any better?
post #31 of 108
1/16/07 at 10:41pm
I don't understand why people aren't understanding the concept that they were banned due to Dell saying what they were doing was wrong. We did what we thought was best for the forum and removed them so that the forum as a whole was not to be taken down. It was for the good of the whole.
post #32 of 108
1/16/07 at 10:56pm
Logs are interesting. As in "how many warnings DID he get before being banned?" Lots of talk around here could be shut up with some printouts.

Too much/illegal to print?
post #33 of 108
1/16/07 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WackyT
OK. And a Communistic dictatorship is any better?
I'd like to point out that if this place really WAS run by thought Nazis, then nobody would bother to defend anyone's actions. If you complained, you'd be gone. No warnings or explanations, just gone with all comments deleted. I've seen comments in this thread from admins, mods, and regular users, and it seems to me like there's at least some degree of freedom to say what you think. No, you can't do and say anything you want, but as it's a privately owned forum, that makes sense. If, for example, you get in a big argument in a coffee shop and start throwing things around, the owners of the shop have the right to ask you to leave. Likewise, if they found out people were doing something illegal in the shop, like hacking into the wireless network of the big corporation next door, for instance, and the corporation complained about it, the coffee shop would understandably ask the person who was hacking the network to leave and not come back, no matter how nice or fun the person was.
post #34 of 108
1/16/07 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djembe
I'd like to point out that if this place really WAS run by thought Nazis, then nobody would bother to defend anyone's actions. If you complained, you'd be gone. No warnings or explanations, just gone with all comments deleted. I've seen comments in this thread from admins, mods, and regular users, and it seems to me like there's at least some degree of freedom to say what you think. No, you can't do and say anything you want, but as it's a privately owned forum, that makes sense. If, for example, you get in a big argument in a coffee shop and start throwing things around, the owners of the shop have the right to ask you to leave. Likewise, if they found out people were doing something illegal in the shop, like hacking into the wireless network of the big corporation next door, for instance, and the corporation complained about it, the coffee shop would understandably ask the person who was hacking the network to leave and not come back, no matter how nice or fun the person was.

Very good analogy. Djembe to the rescue!
post #35 of 108
1/16/07 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djembe
I'd like to point out that if this place really WAS run by thought Nazis, then nobody would bother to defend anyone's actions. If you complained, you'd be gone. No warnings or explanations, just gone with all comments deleted. I've seen comments in this thread from admins, mods, and regular users, and it seems to me like there's at least some degree of freedom to say what you think. No, you can't do and say anything you want, but as it's a privately owned forum, that makes sense. If, for example, you get in a big argument in a coffee shop and start throwing things around, the owners of the shop have the right to ask you to leave. Likewise, if they found out people were doing something illegal in the shop, like hacking into the wireless network of the big corporation next door, for instance, and the corporation complained about it, the coffee shop would understandably ask the person who was hacking the network to leave and not come back, no matter how nice or fun the person was.

So far nobody in the NBF Corp has provided any proof other than "what if"s and "could be"s referring to the illegality of the resellers they banned. What you don't understand is that dictatorships like Cuba are also "privately owned forums" in a larger sense.
post #36 of 108
1/16/07 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WackyT
So far nobody in the NBF Corp has provided any proof other than "what if"s and "could be"s referring to the illegality of the resellers they banned. What you don't understand is that dictatorships like Cuba are also "privately owned forums" in a larger sense.
I don't get what you aren't understanding...Dell said it was a no-no and so as a coffee shop, we ousted them. Also somewhere Laura even stated we're working on a section for legal reselling.
post #37 of 108
1/16/07 at 11:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdonket
I don't get what you aren't understanding...Dell said it was a no-no and so as a coffee shop, we ousted them.

Can the letter possibly be posted here?
post #38 of 108
1/17/07 at 12:01am
Hmmm...and if so, would you eat your words? After all, fair's fair--you've been calling people...dictatorial, at best. Not nice words at all.
post #39 of 108
1/17/07 at 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WackyT
So far nobody in the NBF Corp has provided any proof other than "what if"s and "could be"s referring to the illegality of the resellers they banned. What you don't understand is that dictatorships like Cuba are also "privately owned forums" in a larger sense.
I would say that's in too broad of a sense. If someone gets in trouble with an internet forum or a coffee shop, 99% or more of the time, the worst that can happen to them is that they get banned and so they go to another internet forum or coffee shop and are not really that much worse off. If someone gets in trouble while living under the rule of a dictator, it's probably going to effectively ruin their life. Basically, except for Adam, Laura, Luke, Shaun, and Craig, who make their living off these forums, none of the rest of us have to be here. You are here fundamentally because you want to be. However, you are not always living under the system of government you would prefer, and unlike internet forums or coffee shops, it's not nearly as easy to find another one! You're often stuck right where you are. So the difference is in the fact that you don't have to be here, and so good forums (as I believe, for the most part, that NBF is) will try to improve quality and features because they know that you can leave now and never come back if you choose. Dictatorships know that you really don't have a choice, so they concentrate more on preventing you from leaving.
post #40 of 108
1/17/07 at 12:14am
We quite honestly want your guys company...NBF has been attempting to expand itself vastly in terms of "rulers" as you would say, thats what us CR's are, we act as a link to the people of the forums to monitor the peoples needs and wants as well as trying to keep the forums cleans for you guys.
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