ATTN: All Dell 9400/e1705/m1710/m90 owners!!! - Page 6

I took my E1705 up to the Senior Design EE lab here. The two seniors that were there glanced over at my oscilloscope and realized what was going on, most likely assuming that I did not ground properly. When we took it over to the new, more advanced scope, the measurements reported were of a 60Hz periodic function with a peak-to-peak voltage of ~150V.

Being curious EE's, the next natural step that the seniors suggested was to see if we could pull any current out of the screws. A few moments later, we had a circuit with a laptop screw connecting to an LED in series with a 1K Ohm resistor connected to the ground node of a power supply (connected directly to the ground of a wall socket). I am happy to report that the LED turned on and there was a measured current of about 1.4 (mille or micro, I forget which) Amps flowing from the screw to the resistor.

Remember, folks, there will never be current flowing out of the laptop without a load attached to the screws. So don't hook up any 1 Ohm resistors if this is happening to your laptop, you might fry a few things (due to the large current, remember V=IR).

I'm opening up a Dell chat now to see about getting this resolved.

Thanks for starting this thread ViriiGuy. It was quite interesting to play around with the testing for this.

EDIT: When I asked the dell chat support tech if she could send a 3 pronged power adapter (after I explained the issue), she replied "I cannot do that."

Yeah, you got the whole "like for a like" bid i'm assuming?? I'm thinking that tech hasn't a clue what's going on, and they never will until someone up in corporate finally gets that wild hair taken care of and issues a recall/tech sheet for the grounding issue using the 2pronged non grounding adapters.

THat is, of course, assuming the suits find this issue worth "known issue" status, it is entirely possible that they will continue to ignore it and tell us to "get bent" in a fashion.

At least a few folks have been succesful in their quests. That makes me get a warm and fuzzy about the coming conclusion of this drama.

I just have to remember the thread I started last week "Dell Support R0cKs", painful, but they came through in the end.

Laters

My system is also sending out 65v from the screws under it.
Talked to support the other day and they said that they neverheard of the problem. After some discussion the came back to me and said tah this was normal and that it wouldn't hurt the Laptop.

Well, if ther will be any general policy issued by Dell regarding this problem i will call them back.

Well, I wonder how long this "researching" is going to take???

65v at the bottom of the laptop is NOT normal...lol, I think your tech was smokin something, either that or they are definatly clueless when it comes to electronics and safety.....

Hopfully they will change their mind.

So far I haven't had any problems with errors due to this. Just som regular svhost32 errors =)

So much hoopla; so much BS!

In the first place, it isn't the voltage that kills you, it's the current!! I took my Inspiron E1705, plugged in the AC supply and measured the voltage to earth ground, specifically, from the DVI connector to the pipe going to my kitchen sink. I measured 47 volts. I then made a connection from the DVI connector to the pipe with my body. Absolutely nothing!!

If y'all think I'm going to bother Dell tech support with this bit of BS, you've got another think coming. I measured just a few milliamps of current going from the laptop to ground, and that wouldn't even kill an ant.

And as for the perp who was complaining about the hair on their body tingling when he came near the laptop, that's static electricity, bub. You find it on all LCD screens.

What a waste of good forum space.

Gerry

Have you actually read the posts in this thread?

Most of us are not worried that we will be electified or hurt in any way.
It's the potential damage tho the system that worries.
Stray current can cause trouble as stated by several peaople in this forum.

I'ts your choice if you want to report it or not.

First of all, it only takes a few miliamps to stop your heart,in case you were wondering. MAIN CONCERN!! >>> Second of all, your laptop is designed to run on dc voltage is it not? What would you suppose would happen if that AC voltage were to arc across to your mother board or your gpu or your memory? hmmm. Third of all, Have you ever licked a battery before? that's only a few microamps and it's very low voltage, crank that voltage up and keep the resistance the same and you will get more current, E = I x R so 1.5v = ?A x 500kohms (your skin assuming it's dry) = 3 microamps not really something to worry about 70v = ?A x 500kohms = .14 mA that's getting pretty close to stopping the human heart, so ifyour body had any perseration on it, the resistance goes down, so let's just say it goes to about 10kohms 70v = ?A x 10kohms = 7mA that's enough to stop the human heart...and if you knew about ac therory, that 70v is an effective valvue, or a dc equivalent, that 70v could peak up to 100v and any point in time along the ac sine wave, so assuming that some point in them there will be 100v potential avalible at the screws, 100v = ?A x 10kohms that's 10mA...i'm not saying that it's an electrical hazard because who's got they're laptop resting right above their heart with exposed skin I mean, that's not gonna happen, and you theoretically can't die or get hurt from this problem, but it's just the fact that it's there, and there is a very very very small potential for any harm to the body to occur, it's just the fact that it's there. You probbly have a 99% higher chance to get hurt by getting out of bed in the morning. Think about it

After reading this story on Slashdot, I have contacted Dell and after hours on hold got my issue escalated to engineering. After discussing how I tested the 10 laptops at my work the engineer agreed this may be a problem and is having his team work on the issue and let me know what they find out.

Currently only one of our laptops have stopped working here, it was an E1505 and it was producing a pretty good voltage from the screws. This laptop is currently in Dell's system for service.

No, trolling posts like yours are the big waste. Read the whole thing again bub, and then think about what you just said again. We all know that nobody here will die from this voltage issue, its the hardware that could die that concerns us. Perhaps what we just found here is the reason why so many I9400's have to have warranty work twice a year because of the damn NMI Parity error... So you see that there is 65 Volts of AC flowing from that screw in the base. If the screw has voltage, that means that the entire ground plane of the notebook is energized with this low current high voltage flow. Considering that our notebooks are only happy with 19.2V of DC current, this AC current that is there is a problem, and definately one that Dell should be happy to correct before they have a lawsuit against them.

As for the tingling being static electricity, have you ever even been shocked by static!? Static electricity is a quick discharge of electricity that is stored within a person, or object. Far from a tingle, its usually a good solid jolt. A steady tingling sensation can only come from a solid source of constant energy. Why don't you get your facts straight before you jump in here calling us all out on a BS claim?

What an idiot....someone who has little knowledge of electronics...or lack of reading the whole thread....we ALL KNOW that there is little chance of shock...I even explained about it in one of my posts that the current is far to low to to a human any damage...as I tested...its hardware issues we are concerned about...as KP sid, having stray AC voltage on the ground plane is NOT a good thing...

On the Dell note though, I am AMAZED how Dell Asia Pacific KNEW about the problem straight away, PHONED ME the NEXT DAY and TOLD ME that THEY were going to send a 3-PIN ADAPTER, which I received the NEXT DAY, yet Dell USA/Canada have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA......

COME ON DELL, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER...LITERALLY....WORK TOGETHER...

I have an E1505, which is only a week old and works great. It had 54V AC from a screw to the outlet ground. I called Dell and my tech spoke with Tier 3 techs. They said they hadn't heard of this problem.

He asked me if I'm getting shocked...no. I even tried and I don't feel anything. He did say the amperage is too small to worry about. As for causing hardware failures...I don't know. I didn't think to ask them at the time.

The guy told me they didn't make 3-prong adapters for the E1505. I would love to hear otherwise! I looked on Dell's site and couldn't find anything conclusive. Then we ended the tech call.

On other websites I see lots of people indicating their 3-prong plugs work on the E1505:

http://www.laptoppartsworld.com/products/26229.html
http://www.adapturl.com/laptop-dell-...er-p25958.html
http://www.e-topco.com/commerce/stor...dproduct=32818

But note that this adapter is 4.62A and the adapter included with the E1505 says it is something like 3.5A. So even though the plugs look compatible, I don't know if they are. If anyone finds out definitively from Dell I would love to hear about it! I'm afraid to try the 4.62A adapter--even though I already have one for my work laptop (a Latitude D810).

The higher current just means that it'll charge faster, because the adapters have the exact same voltage of 19.5, just the 65w watt adapter only flows 3.5 amps and the 90w adapter flows 4.62 amps, P = I x E

I searched dell's website and the only 3-pronged adapter that they offer for the 6400/e1505 is the 90w adapter, which will show a current level of 4.6 amps or so.

The 90w adapter should work just fine, they even offer that as an extra when you are initially purchasing your laptop under the power options tab.

Hope that helps.

Hello,
<O></O>
My name is Mike, I’m a Technical Analyst located at Dell corporate headquarters in Round Rock, TX. I’m part of an internet outreach team developed to interact with the online community regarding technical questions and issues that customers face with Dell products.
<O></O>
Dell is aware of the reported finding and plans to recover the notebook from the customer for analysis. All Dell products are designed and tested to meet or surpass applicable worldwide safety and performance standards, including IEC 60950. The compact two-prong power cord used with this Inspiron 9400 is now considered a standard in the industry, and it is sometimes possible that these more compact two-prong power cords would allow the current described by the customer. These industry standard power cords allow Dell customer’s greater flexibility in finding replacement cords or new cords when they accidentally leave them behind or when traveling through multiple countries.
<O></O>
Based on the information available to Dell in this customer's blog post, we believe that there is no safety hazard associated with the reported "tingling." All electrical devices powered by AC adapters with a two-pronged power cord (without a ground wire) may exhibit a small amount of voltage between the exposed metal parts of the device and earth ground, causing, on occasion, a user to feel a tingling sensation when the user touches exposed metal parts. This is very low voltage and does not present any risk of injury to the user. If any of our customers are concerned they should contact us online at customer_advocate@dell.com.

I had a similar issue with a Latitude D820. The problem occurred only when using it on AC adapter.
I had an AC adapter without ground (so only 2 pins). Dell shipped me one with a ground and the problem was gone.
The entire top of the laptop felt electrostatically charged, as well as the glidepath buttons, which was very annoying.

Same thing by the way with 2 Packard Bells.

It might not be dangerous, but it's so annoying, it basically makes the use of the laptop a constant annoyance. I don't understand why Dell doesn't ship its products with a 3-wire AC adapter... can't really make much difference in pricing, can it ?

How bout...read the thread? We arent worried about us, we've already established the lack of current poses no real risk to us. What we are concerned about is the damage its doing to the laptop.

I just ordered a 1705 for my wife late last week, and its due to arrive tomorrow according to the tracking #. I am looking forward to testing it out and see if I see the same results several of you all have. I did order a spare power adaptor, but now realize now that I never checked if it was 2 or 3 prong. I will post what I find