ATTN: All Dell 9400/e1705/m1710/m90 owners!!! - Page 10

If and when we get 3 pronged adapters, would this require us to get entire new power brcks or just the cord that plugs into the powerbrick? US adapter.

well, the Australia adapter (2 pin) only had 2 pins on the adapter itself...

this will be the same for other countries too...your current adapter will only have 2 pins on it...you will need a whole new adapter with the pins...

:sigh:

It's absolutely incredible that Dell is just kind of blowing this off right now... For what its worth, I believe that they are just trying to find the most legal way of reporting to the world that there is nothing wrong with this excess voltage, and are likely paying big bucks to some 3rd party firm to 'prove' that there is no chance of this affecting the quality of their product. The question is, will we as the end user put up with them giving us "NO" for an answer...

My experience with the voltage goes a little deeper than anyone else has discussed here so far. My scenario goes like this...

I bought the Inspiron 9300 initially to be my travel companion, as I tour the eastern 50% of the United States as a semi truck driver. My original idea was to have it for 2 main things - navigation, and music on the go. In my truck, I have a fairly high quality 3000 Watt power inverter which I use to power my laptop, and multiple chargers and only once in a while, my microwave and my griddle (I like eating fancy on the road ) Now, I can plug just about anything into this power inverter, and use it while driving down the road - as it does not normally interfere with the CB radio or the actual Stereo. This was the case with the 9300... I had crystal clear audio reproduction through a cassette deck adapter when playing music from Winamp. I was happy...

Then after having more problems with the 9300 than I care to get into here, Dell decides to 'upgrade' me and they ship me my first E1705. I was really excited about the upgrade, but it became short lived as I fired her up in the truck the first time... With the cassette adapter in the deck, and the cord unplugged from the audio jack on the notebook it just hissed quietly through the truck speakers like you would expect a tape to sound - pretty normal. With the 9400 unplugged from the outlet on the inverter, I plugged in the audio cable and had the same quiet hiss. I played a couple of tracks through Winamp and all sounded good - until I plugged in the AC Adapter... GOOD GREIF. The extremely loud buzzing noise this thing makes through the speakers in my truck is untolerable! It buzzes so loud that the music is unenjoyable with the machine plugged in! I thought it was a bad brick the first time, but Dell shipped me yet another E1705 power brick, and the sound continued... How awful. I never had this problem... not even ONCE with the 9300. What was the difference between the two systems? Oh yeah... you guessed it. The 9300 came with a GROUNDED adapter!

Get your act together Dell... this IS an issue and its highly doubtful that any of us are going to give up on this cause without some kind of battle... Its such a simple fix, its almost sickening really. I wish I had kept the 3 pin adapter from my 9300 now, because I have a gut instinct telling me that I wouldn't be having this issue right now if I still had it.

I call out to all of my friends reading this thread here! Don't let Dell give us the finger on this issue!! If they decide that a problem doesn't exist, then we will ALL have to work double time to make them understand that the CONSUMER sees this as a problem - and we as the consumer deem it neccessary to fight for a fix! We all spent thousands of dollars on these systems, and Dell cut corners just to save a few bux on the grounded power bricks...

Also consider the fact that an EXTREMELY large percentage of all E1705/M1710 notebooks exhibit the infamous MEMORY PARITY ERROR at some point in he life of the system. How is it that so many systems exhibit the same exact condition - regardless of what memory they use, what video card the system has, what OS system a person may be running... I have been on these boards for over a year now, and have seen countless members in turmoil over the fact that their systems won't stay running for more than a day without a damn BSOD! Dell tells us to 1)reinstall the OS (doesn't help) 2)run the system with only one stick of RAM until it crashes then try the other (lengthy process that a lot of us don't have the time or patience to deal with) 3) They ship us new memory/video card/hard drive/wireless card/cpu/motherboard/rubber feet.... and of course the problem eventually gets temporarily fixed - just to crop up again at a later date and then the user goes through the same Dell Tech nightmare all over again. I have been watching it happen over the last year. The problem is real - Dell ignores it... Like I tell my trucking buddies all the time out here on the road... the world isn't going to change to accomodate you - you have to change the world yourself. Dell won't recognize the issue is there until their users come by the droves and point the problem out for them. Look at what this thread has done so far. Over 50,000 views now, and every major tech website has run a story about it. Dell is 'looking into it' now, which was further than we had ever got with them.

Spread the word ladies and gents. Dell has sold a lot of these machines, so lets bring the voice of the people out into the open and let Dell know how you feel about this particular issue!



Sorry guys, I know its a lot to read. It was all things I needed to say though, and get into the open. Dell's reaction to this issue is going to have a major impact on any future purchases I make... Thanks for listening.

I'm getting more and more curious about what answer DELL will give us.
As i stated erlier the dell support here in Sweden never heard of the problem and after 15 min of discussion (waited on the phone) they decided that it was no real problem.

As I haven't had any problem so far (7 month) i decided not to push it any further but if they decide ignore this problem completely i will definately call them again.

Anyone who has worked a little bit with electrical equipment knows how much stray current can cause problems.

Keep up the good work!

For what it's worth, I think that anyone thinking that this "issue" is a reason for a laptop to quit working is being a bit presumptious. Laptops can die for any of a bazzillion reasons. Not that this issue is a good one, it's not. Also keep in mind it's not a Dell only issue. Read the links to posts about this problem on other web sites and you'll find that people owning any number of other laptops also have seen this problem.

Also, keep in mind how the power adapter works. It is an induction based voltage reducer and inverter (you EE types should understand that). The voltage coming is much lower and DC, not AC. There is no physical wired connection between the output of DC voltage to the input of AC voltage. So if there is an AC current being measured off the laptop, it's generate via something inside the laptop, not from the adapter. Most likely from the display which probably creates an alternating current due to it's operation in cycling the display 60 times per second. I'd like to see someone hook this up to an scope, as you will most likely find it's a one sided AC current (positive only, no negative side). Though grounding is very important and can give any stray voltage a place to go, it doesn't remove the voltage, just directs the current to a more adaptive place to go.

I'll have to side with a post earlier that it would basically be impossible for someone to get injured by this, and highly unlikely to cause problems with the electronics inside the laptop. The reason you are sensing this from the screws, is that the voltage has been properly sent to the grounds inside the laptop, to which the screws are connected to normally, not to the voltage supply lines, so all is safe.

Finally, simply said: Caveat Emptor

If you feel you need a better adaptor, I'll side with Dell... Buy one. The general public keeps screaming for lower cost computers, yet don't like the results??

That does seem rather strange, but I'm in no position to comment. I'm no expert when it comes to regulations, although I thought that the FCC regulations addressed various radio emissions and interference. Even if the stray voltage is "acceptable" under FCC (or other relevant) regulations, the larger issue is that the system is unstable and that this seems to be related to the adapter in use. Dell might be able to explain away the voltage as "acceptable" under the relevant electrical codes, but that doesn't absolve them of the liability of selling a product that is not fit for its intended use and that tends to self-destruct over (not a great deal of) time. There may be another avenue we can pursue: As the E1705 is UL Listed, Dell is obligated to demonstrate compliance with the appropriate UL Standard(s). Unfortunately it's somewhat expensive to obtain a copy of the Standards, so it's difficult to determine whether the stray voltages we're seeing is evidence of noncompliance. But it appears we can ask the UL to look into it. From UL's FAQ:

Q: If a UL Listed, Recognized or Classifed product does not appear to be safe to whom should I report this? A: The Field Reports section of UL's Consumer Affairs Group receives and investigates reports of problems with UL Listed products. To report a problem, please e-mail

Donald Ackerman Probably we shouldn't all deluge Mr. Ackerman's e-mail, but perhaps one of us might contact him on behalf of the group? Cheers, Jeremy

So basically what you are telling me, is that even though the adapter that ships with this unit causes a terrible audio buzz from the headphone port when plugged in to the mains - I should just put up with it and not complain? Sorry, but thats not going to happen here. I had an I9300 with a grounded AC Adapter, and never had a problem with electrical noise. The 9400 though, I have to charge the machine up first then unplug the power cord while listening to music. Once the notebook dies, I have to kill the music and start the process again! Not quite the leisure I would expect from a 2,000 dollar machine. As far as whether or not the voltage could 'kill' the notebook? Well, Dell has not offered any solution for the thousands of people with the PARITY ERROR issue, so its easy for us to 'presume' that this could be a possible cause of it. If Dell wants to give us a press release and tell us why only THEIR machines seem to have a major problem with the NMI Errors, then I suppose we wouldn't even have to be 'presumptuous' in the first place. We are simply trying to fill in the blanks where Dell won't... Gimme a notebook that can charge at the AC outlet, and still have my music play in my truck. WTF good is a multimedia computer that cannot provide a quality multimedia experience?

This all sounds reasonable, but it doesn't explain the apparent correlation between system stability and the use of a two- or three-prong adapter. It also doesn't explain the absence of any stray voltage when used with a three-prong adapter, as there appear to be two conductors between the brick and the laptop in either case. Personally, if using a three-prong adapter restored my system to the level of stability it demonstrated in the first couple of months of use, I might just buy the appropriate adapters and be done with it. But the fact of the matter is that the system is less stable, even with a three-prong adapter, than it used to be with a two-prong adapter, suggesting possible damage. Yes, there are other possible explanations for such damage, but given the evidence in this matter, isn't the stray voltage--or something else related to the adapter--a likely explanation? Cheers, Jeremy

So why doesnt this happen when on battery, and only when plugged in? Im pretty sure the screen does the same thing when its on battery vs plugged in. Open your eyes, the problem is real. Yeah, directs current...like...not through sensitive equipment that can be harmed by stray voltage. We know. Beware of what? Stray voltage in an extremely sensitive, 1500 dollar electronic device? Something about that seems a little strange... Please enlighten me as to why they included 3-prong adapters with 9300s? Why would they back down to two-prong adapters? Oh right, to cut corners and save money at the risk of stray voltage in that extremely sesntive 1500 dollar piece of electronic equipment. This must be doing wonders for there reputation. What you fail to realize is that while the problem is serious, Dell is blowing us off. Im pretty damn sure i wont be buying another Dell due to the way they are handling this situation. The bottom line is stray voltage in a device such as this is absolutely unacceptable. Viriguy: I say send another email or two, wait another week, then give CNN a call.

My replacements (x2) with have arrived from Dell ANZ. They are the correct AC adapters and power cords this time.

All working and the issue appear to be gone for now.

My 2 pins bricks were REV A02, the new 3 pins ones are REV A03, contradicts what the_scotsman reported earier.

So far thumbs up to OP for reporting this issue and Dell ANZ for fixing my problem promptly. I hope that guys outside Dell ANZ coverage can have theirs fixed soon.

EDIT: full unit details
90W
PA-10 Family
model number - PA-1900-02D2
DP/N U7809
REV A03

Because when plugged in the current load throughout the entire system is much higher than when on battery, so the possibility of leakage current from any component is much much higher.



You'd have to define a consumer laptop as "sensitive equipment" to have that stick...


1. why do I need to "enlighten" you over Dell's policy? Being a little obtuse, aren't you?
2. Again, how do you qualify a consumer electronic device as "sensitive"? I got news for you. Their not. Sorry, fact of life. Get over it.
3. $1500? Real "sensitive" equipment doesn't cost $1500...
4. I'd worry more about your reputation, which you are currently reducing by blowing hot air about a normal operation of an electronic device.


Riiiiiight. Very serious, I'm sure. NOT. This is not a serious problem. If your laptop is not working, then that is a serious problem. But, while I do agree that this issue could very well cause a marginal laptop to exibit more problems than normal, that alone can be rectified by calling Dell support and getting it fixed. Otherwize, if your computer works, and you paid for a working computer do you really have room to gripe?

It's not like the batteries are blowing up! That was a serious problem. This is not. It's very simple, if you feel you are forcefully burdened by this, by all means let Dell know.

[/quote]

Wow, you need a life if you think CNN gives a rat about consumer electronic normalities...



It's real simple guys. All electronics, ALL electronics put off stray voltage and Gaussean radiation. You have to fully understand and appreciate that fact before you can gripe about a problem like this with any credibility.

Again, I'd prefer to see someone hook up a scope to the voltage. It is most likely not true AC current, but rather falling and rising DC current caused by normal operation. Normal voltage meters cannot tell the difference between AC and rapidly moving DC currents. And, a low quickly moving DC voltage will be incorrectly read as a high AC voltage. That is Electrical Circuitry 101 in college guys! I forget the calculations, but a 50 volt AC current is most likely only about 10 volts DC. PCs today use a lot of current, so in order to ensure they get the current they need there will be extra. Remember, the laptop is both running and charging the battery at the same time, so there is more current coming from the adapter than the laptop normally needs to simply operate. Bingo! stray currents will occur. But, not nearly enough to cause any damage to a human so don't even go there. Fluctuating currents are easily "felt" by the skin due to the movement of the voltage levels.

Again, if you laptop is showing problems. Call Dell and get them to fix it. Be noisy enough and sure, they'll send you a new adapter. If you get a numbhead (all companies have them) and you might not get what you want. Big deal, try again. But, don't even go as far as to think this is a global problem with big news issues. It ain't. Keep up the complaining without proper knowledge of how and why this occurs and you may end up a laughing stock.

Calculating the power...

OK, to prove it's not that big of a deal, let's take the idea that it's only a fluctuating DC current and not truely AC, here's the calculations:

From this web site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage

DC voltage is:


AC Voltage is:


So to get the true DC output from the AC voltage read, lets say 50 volts AC...

V=12/50*cos(60) I'm using 60 as the "phasor angle" between the peaks because it's been too long for me to remember how to get the real angle, but I feel it's close enough to what the frequency of the fluctuations are.

So basically about 1/2 a volt DC. AND at ultra low current at that!

Again, it's been many years since I took an AC/DC curcuitry class, so I'm not batting 1000 on that attempt.

If someone knows a professor that teaches on this subject, please have them give us their viewpoint.

Are you saying that it would produce 1/2 a volt of DC. hmm lets see If we were to raise the DC voltage of a 7900 gs core with 0.5 V it would give us 1.5 v and the card would be destroyed Yes i think you have just proved that its not such a big deal

You forgot something. The voltage is being read from the screws, which are connected to the ground side of the circuitry. Nowhere near the Vcc lines of any chip on the laptop. The grounding facility in any electronic device is where stray current is supposed to go. That's why the ground paths are there. That is not a problem.

I did hook it up to a scope, and I can confirm it was AC voltage...not rising and falling DC... This has me absolutely dumbfounded...as I have already said several times...Dell Australia (Asia Pacific) fixed my problem within TWO days of me emailing them about it...what the f*ck is so hard....Dell obsiously work independantly across continents, which is piss poor in situations like this... I wasnt as concerned about my hardware, as I have never had any memory parity error or any kind of hardware error...I was just getting little tingling zaps from the chassis....but now its all fixed...thanks Dell Asia Pacific!

It seems the ground path in these notebooks are people's bodies. I consider that a problem. I have no other electrical/electronic device in my home that gives off an electrical current I can feel through the screws. The bottom line is it shouldn't be there and that's the problem.

Narg forget all of your technical crap for a second; pull your head out of your ass and listen. When you pay that much money, stray voltage shouldnt be an issue of any sort, and youre quite honestly a moron if you believe some type of grounding shouldnt be included with a device such as a laptop.

All electronics put out stray voltage, however, its usually channeled through a ground cable. If you really dont think grounding is important in a laptop, or stray voltage isnt a big deal, let some flow across your ram or cpu or motherboard.

Aside from the stray voltage possibly damaging components, the interference it puts off is also unacceptable, as stated by Kraziepop...what good is a multimedia notebook if this stray voltage is going to destroy the multimedia quality? Are you going to tell us next that stray voltage cant cause interference either?

Atma said it pretty damn well too. It SHOULD NOT be there and THAT is the problem.