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ATTN: All Dell 9400/e1705/m1710/m90 owners!!! - Page 2

post #21 of 352
1/31/07 at 3:32pm
I just checked mine out, and it fluctuates from 12-45 VAC... how odd. I have started getting the NMI error again recently also...
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post #22 of 352
1/31/07 at 3:47pm
I just checked mine and I am getting about .5 VAC. I am also getting the occasional NMI parity error.
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post #23 of 352
1/31/07 at 4:57pm
Thread Starter 
KraziePop, Thank you for testing this. I am hoping to hear something from The E.E. that is checking one of my system by tomorrow. I have some reports of this on 6400's 9400's and M170 and a 1710. So I firmly believe this is a grounding issue across this entire platform.

For those of you who are not seeing the voltage problem, please check it two or three times in a day, with a few hours between them. Make sure the laptop is plugged in when you do this and make sure the red lead is on a screw and the black lead is on a solid ground that is NOT attached to the laptop.

I thank you all for your help in tracking down this problem.
Randy
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post #24 of 352
1/31/07 at 5:25pm
Ok, I will email Dell today too...but it will be Dell Autstralia, so I guess they will know nothing about it...but like you said, I'll explain how I got my results etc...

It now makes sense why I was feeling the tingling from the case every now and again...100VAC! No current but its still 100V all the same...
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post #25 of 352
1/31/07 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_scotsman
It now makes sense why I was feeling the tingling from the case every now and again...100VAC! No current but its still 100V all the same...

You have the highest voltage I have seen yet. How old is your laptop? I have a theory that as the laptop gets older, more damage will be done, thus leading to a larger voltage leak. For those without tools to test this, if the laptop is on your bare skin and someone else touches your bare skin, they will likely feel your skin tingle. You may not feel it yourself, but they likely will. My wife says I felt like a 9 volt battery.
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post #26 of 352
1/31/07 at 6:13pm
I only got my 9400 last October, so its 3 or 4 months old.

Ive sent an email to Dell...
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post #27 of 352
1/31/07 at 6:49pm
Thread Starter 
The first one I saw this one was built in September I believe. As a note, how you get responded too seems to depend upon the Dell Rep. you speak with. One o fmy co-workers jsut got off the phone with Dell to have one of their Techs come in to the shop so we could show them in person. Instead since the laptop is brand new they just want to replace it, then if the next one has the same issue they will come out.. However, the Dell Rep suggested that to avoid this problem, their laptops are not made to be used on your lap. So do not put it on your lap and avoid getting shocked? Not a good solution. not when you consider the damage this stray voltage is/will do to the internals of the laptop.

Randy
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post #28 of 352
1/31/07 at 7:48pm
It seems odd to me but... since the input voltage is all DC shouldn't any stray voltage also be DC? Why are we seeing AC voltage leaking from a DC machine??
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post #29 of 352
1/31/07 at 8:03pm
Just a note to Mods.. you might want to sticky this in the 15" Dell section to as it looks to affect the E1505/6400 series laptops also from what ViriiGuy says.

I posted on the 15" forums to try to get more testing results for you guys.
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post #30 of 352
1/31/07 at 8:10pm
Good point...hmmm...theres obviously some difference in potential...but not sure how that is....
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post #31 of 352
1/31/07 at 9:24pm
UPDATE:

Dell just called me back! Thats was BLOODY quick! only a couple of hours after sending an email!

They are sending me out a 3-pin plug AC adapter, which might hopefully give me better grounding.

Will see how that goes...
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post #32 of 352
1/31/07 at 11:15pm
I just thought I'd test it again with the multimeter, so I did.
I put the red cord onto one of the screws on the wireless card, and the black one onto a ground node in an electrical outlet at home...I got 135 Volts AC ?????
That really seems to be dangerously much...
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post #33 of 352
2/1/07 at 12:02am
dont worry, theres no current, i tried touching it while holding an earth point...didnt feel a thing...but dont try it!
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post #34 of 352
2/1/07 at 3:44am
Okay, here's a question for you experts...I've had my M1710 since they first started sending them out (Feb/March of last year, maybe?)...anyhow, after all this time, NOTHING has gone wrong, to the point that I haven't even reformatted or reinstalled windows...and believe me, I game and punish the hell out of my box, tweaking all kindsa sh!t whenever I can! I've even overclocked the 7900 to 600/700 (pretty modest, actually, if you check the threads).

Anyhow, I just recently (last week or so) started getting the NMI blue-screen parity error...but ONLY occasionally, so it was darn near impossible to trouble-shoot...it doesn't happen that often, but enough to be annoying...this goes on for about two weeks, while I check the forums and try different 'cures'...it's difficult, because you have to wait in between each 'fix' to see if you actually 'fixed' it, since there's no way to trigger them.

I went so far as to call some Indian dude at Dell and tell him about it (he had no idea what I was talking about, and wanted me to run diagnostics, which I had already done)...anyhow, I settled for having him overnight me a WinXP/driver/diagnostics disc and was going to reinstall windows the next day.

Long story short, that night my main hard drive, a Seagate 120GB Momentus 7200RPM LESS THAN A YEAR OLD started making the clicking noises that indicate imminent death. This was JUST AFTER a random NMI freeze-up while composing an email. Shut down, reboot to try and recover as much as I can beofre it goes, and the drive is utterly toast...BIOS don't even see it anymore, FFS! I lost a lot of good data, but it could have been worse, since I've been backing up pretty regularly since the NMI thing started popping up.

QUESTION: I am buying a multimeter at RadioShack this weekend: could this 'stray voltage' problem have caused the NMI errors AND are they related to the inexplicable HD failure? Thanks for reading my book, but I'm pretty upset about the whole thing.

also, just today, the SHIFT keys stopped working to capitalize an 'A'...ONLY an 'A', though...everything else works fine with the SHIFT keys, but now I have to CAPS LOCK anytime I want to type a capital 'A'...If things keep deteriorating and I find huge amounts of stray voltage, I may push for a system exchange or something...have to PROVE it first, though, so can anyone answer my questions? I understand everything is pretty much just a guesstimate, now, until the EE gets back to ViriiGuy...
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post #35 of 352
2/1/07 at 10:13am
Thread Starter 
Well I do firmly believe that this stray voltage could be the cause of your NMI errors. I have seen the NMI errors on most of the laptops that have this problem. I firmly believe that the stray voltage can be the cause for several hardware failures. Stray voltages and electronics do not mix. Many of the componets inside your laptop are not designed to handle over 12 volts.

Now I do not think it is the cause of your hard drive. Simply because you say it is clicking. MOST of the time a clicking hard drive means head failure. The clicking sound you hear is actually the heads smacking against the platters inside your hard drive. This in laptops is usually cause by repeatedly being moved or shaken while on. However, with that said, it is possible that the stray voltage shorted out the IC chip that controls the head movement on your hard drive and has caused it to not remember where it should start and stop. But this is a very rare occurance, just not unheard of.

I do feel that a grounded adapter may be just what we need for these laptops and when I spoke to Dell early yesterday I suggested as much to them. However when I have mine serviced again, I will have it replaced and the new one shipped to me with a grounded adapter. The hidden internal damage will have already been started, due to the stray voltage.

Randy

the_scotsman, I do not have access to an ossiciliscope at the moment. Maybe you could throw the power adapter you have right now on it. I suspect that since these seem to be about the only common part betweent he 6400 and the 9400, maybe this is the culprit.
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post #36 of 352
2/1/07 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViriiGuy
Well I do firmly believe that this stray voltage could be the cause of your NMI errors. I have seen the NMI errors on most of the laptops that have this problem. I firmly believe that the stray voltage can be the cause for several hardware failures. Stray voltages and electronics do not mix. Many of the componets inside your laptop are not designed to handle over 12 volts.

Now I do not think it is the cause of your hard drive. Simply because you say it is clicking. MOST of the time a clicking hard drive means head failure. The clicking sound you hear is actually the heads smacking against the platters inside your hard drive. This in laptops is usually cause by repeatedly being moved or shaken while on. However, with that said, it is possible that the stray voltage shorted out the IC chip that controls the head movement on your hard drive and has caused it to not remember where it should start and stop. But this is a very rare occurance, just not unheard of.

I do feel that a grounded adapter may be just what we need for these laptops and when I spoke to Dell early yesterday I suggested as much to them. However when I have mine serviced again, I will have it replaced and the new one shipped to me with a grounded adapter. The hidden internal damage will have already been started, due to the stray voltage.

Randy

the_scotsman, I do not have access to an ossiciliscope at the moment. Maybe you could throw the power adapter you have right now on it. I suspect that since these seem to be about the only common part betweent he 6400 and the 9400, maybe this is the culprit.

Thanks...good to know it was just a random fluke (or maybe me being too hard on my 1710 )...at least now I know that my new HD won't fail as well (as long as I don't turn it on and drop it down the stairs again, lol).

Correct me if I'm wrong, though, by 'grounded adapter', you mean a plug with three prongs, right? If so, all 1710's HAVE grounded adapters, as there are three progs both on the outlet and the adapter end of the cord. Don't know about 9400/6400, but since I'm getting NMI Parity errors with a grounded cord, that may not be the problem (unless maybe my computer's just particularly FUBAR'D).
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post #37 of 352
2/1/07 at 5:09pm
Yea, the 6400/9400 only have 2 pronged plugs.

The new 3-pin one should be getting delivered to me today.

Its not a definate solution, only something Dell want me to try.
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post #38 of 352
2/1/07 at 11:18pm
My E1705 seems to be uneffected, though it does have a 3 prong AC adapter.
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post #39 of 352
2/1/07 at 11:29pm
SOLVED!

Received my 3-pin adapter and it HAS fixed the problem.

So its a simple solution, just gives the unit better grounding.
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post #40 of 352
2/1/07 at 11:49pm
Thread Starter 
Good! I am glad to hear the grounded adapter does solve this problem. Seems like they need to supply the grounded adapter standard with all their laptops. Good job the_scotsman! I will get ahold of Dell in the morning and get some grounded adapters sent to my shop. I am still going to do periodic testing to make sure the problem will be completely gone.

Randy
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