Sager 8790 or Dell Inspiron XPS? (looking to buy) - Page 2

Well, remember that on tha Dell.Ca site the prices are in Monopoly money... sorry I mean Canadian dollars...

UT 2004 demo plays great at 1920 by 1280. I was surprised, but it does.

I ordered my XPS over the phone this week. I advised the sales rep about the 7200 rpm Hitachi, not appearing on the configuration screen. She couldn't give me a reason but included the 7200 rpm in my order, the parts say it's for the 9100 though? Her name was Marie Dorn at X58597

462-8400] Inspiron XPS Intel Pentium4 3.4GHz,15.4 WUXGA with HT Technology
[311-3407] 512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz for Inspiron XPS
[312-0183] 128MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
[341-0084] 60GB Ultra ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive for Inspiron 9100
[420-3885] Microsoft Windows Home Edition(English)
[412-0408] Generic Inspiron Dell Support
[462-8515] Modular 4X CD/DVD burner (DVD+RW+R),for Inspiron 9100
[430-0839] Dell TrueMobile 1400 DualBand (802.11 a/b/g) mini-PCI WLAN Internal Wireless Solution
[412-0628] SYMANTEC NORTON INTERNET SECURITY 2004,90 DAY TRIAL,OEM
[412-0516] Dell Jukebox powered by Music Match
[310-8836] 96 WHr 12 Cell Primary Batterywith Subwoofer
[310-4771] Exclusive Inspiron XPS BackPack
[461-3063] No ISP Requested
[412-0521] Dell Photo Album Standard
[412-0380] Real Network RealOne Player Basic,Version 6,US English
[412-0398] Word Perfect Productivity Pack
[412-0552] Money 2004 Standard Version for Inspiron
[412-0556] Microsoft Enclyclopedia,2004 for Inspiron
[950-1000] Type 3- Third Party At Home Service, 24x7 Technical Support, Initial Year
[950-1002] Type 3- Third Party At Home Service, 24x7 Technical Support, 2 Year Extended
[950-3339] 3 Year Limited Warranty
[412-0360] Soft Contracts - Banctec
[970-5927] Inspiron XPS, Specialized Support
[412-0581] Dell Media Experience for Inspiron Systems
[420-4125] Turbo Tax 2003
[311-3452] SKULLZ QuickSnap Cover for Inspiron XPS
[461-6887] $200.00 SPECIAL OFFER

Looks good.
stu

I see a lot of people here talking about how the dell video card is better than the sager’s. Why? The hardware on the two cards is exactly the same except that the sager comes with 256 megs instead of 128. Just because the stock dell comes overclocked does not make it better, it is the same card, the only difference is in the software. And i dont think you should overlook the difference doubling the on board memory makes. Just take a look at the 3dmark 03 scores.

3dmark 03
Stock dell 3357
Stock 8790 3,381

Even though the stock sager’s video card is running slower than the dell, it still wins (albeit not by much), but keep in mind that this is before you OC the 8790 to the place where the dell is.

8790@ 460/290 3,748
8790@ 500/300 3,971
8790@ 515/300 4,033

All of these settings have been endorsed as stable and not having any artifacting by Adem, the guy who runs this forum. Maybe you can get the iXPS to run stabile and break 4k, i don’t know, but i cant understand how you can claim with a straight face that the iXPS has a more powerful video card than the 8790 when it has half the ram and the same hardware.

So in my opinion the calculus goes as such:
Overall performance: Sager wins, it flat out gets better 3dmark scores

Processor: Sager, if you order an iXPS, unless you get the EE processor (which is a waste of money for ~5-10% better performance) you are stuck with a prescot which runs hotter than the northwood, drains more juice, and has worse performance.

Harddrive: sager wins hands down, It supports RAID and it is easier to get an 8790 with a 7200rpm harddrive than a dell.

Optical drive: Dell wins, they offer a 4x burner instead of the 2x you get with the sager

Video card: Sager because it has twice the onboard RAM

Screen: Depends on what you want. If you want size, the sager wins. If you want resolution the Dell wins. Also Sager actually offers a better bad pixel policy than DELL. While you can return both systems within 30 days, Sager offers screen replacements if your bad pixel is in the “center viewing area.”

Battery: dell wins, but not by much and who cares? If this is a big consideration you are looking at the wrong line of notebooks.

Noise: I think Dell wins, but honestly it is too soon to tell because hardly anyone has gotten their iXPS yet so we don’t know how loud they are.

Service: Sager wins hands down. Just check out resellerrateings.com or the dell forum, or this forum if you don’t believe me. But honestly i am a bit sore on this subject at the moment seeing as i recently cancelled my iXPS due to getting kicked around and lied too, so i might not be an impartial judge of this.

Warrantee: On paper dell’s is better than sager. It costs more, and in my opinion dell is less likely to honor it (see above), but they do offer at home service and accident coverage. It is way more expensive though.

Price: Sager by far. The iXPS i ordered had 3.4 non EE, gig or ram, 7200 hd for 3300$, and this was after getting 10% off from a special offer. The sager i got was 2350$ (before adding in a tv tuner card and a backpack) for a p4 3.2 non EE, and cd burner instead of dvd burner. Everything else was equivalent to the dell. What exactly do get from dell for that extra 1000$? Not better service, that’s for sure, and not better performance. The only reason i would go for the dell is if you needed the UXGA screen (which some people do).

The performance diff between the two machines is effectively NIL. It is UNDER 1%, which is statistically insignificant. Any stray process on a machine could be the reason for that sub-1% delta. Benchmarking isn't rocket science. Two machines with the same GPU's running 3dmark03 will run at a very similar speed and generate the same basic result provided the app isn't being limited by the machine's CPU.

The Dell card is clocked higher because it is VALIDATED at a higher speed, case closed. While you may be able to get the 8790's card clocked that high or even higher, it's not validated at those speeds. That's the difference here. The validation process is always a complex one, so arguing that Dell just got chips that were "overclocked" is bunk. The contract calls for VALIDATED parts. Of course you can overclock the sager to Dell's GPU speed. But you aren't validated at that speed, and if it fails, tough sh*t.

I will agree that it's not a big deal either way. They perform comparably when stock. It's not a "big deal" that Dell's GPU is clocked higher. But it *IS* clocked higher, and that's going to be of concern to some. It's not a big deal to me, but don't try talking everyone out of the significance

Also, the extra 128MB of video memory is NOT going to make a difference except in a few games (Asheron's Call 2 I hear is one of them, and even those graphics are old and tired now). 3dmark is NOT one of those apps that benefits from >128MB of vram.

That's 100% bunk. Forget about the BS ordering process, we all know that sucks. Once you GET the machine, Sager won't come to your house to fix it. You're stuck shipping it back. With dell, you at least have the OPTION of on-site service. It's NOT significantly more expensive ($79) if you keep it down to a year (which is all i'll keep my notebook for anyway). The at-home service pays for itself the FIRST time you use it, and you WILL use it because notebook HD's frequently fail

Even if you opt for 3 years of at-home service, that's STILL less than the cost of a trashed HD.

-k

don't ever buy ram from dell--always get the minimum and upgrade yourself--otherwise the prices are comparable for 3.4 nwoods.

xps has upgradeable graphics (don't have to mail in your lappy)
[color=Red] I like having the at home warranty, a flawless wuxga screen and the ability to drop the next great video card in without sending my laptop away for a couple weeks.

Validation really does not mean much. It means your card gets extra testing, but you are still shipped the same piece of silicon as anyone else gets. No one who has reported OCing their 9700 with a sager to 500/300 has reported problems yet. Adem, Mr. PCtorque himself confirmed these frequencies as safe. I do agree that 256 on board ram is a bit overkill right now, but it will make a difference down the road. Hell, pretty much everything on these systems is overkill at the moment, but future proofing, and being able to say “mines bigger” are both things which play into the decision making process.

If the 256 meg of video ram is not making a difference, why are the stock 3D mark scores so close (this is an honest question)? The iXPS should do quite a bit better since its base video card is over clocked. Also what gpu/ram speeds is the iXPS shipped at? Isnt it like 460/290? If so that means that at the same speeds the Sager gets an extra 300 points which is a major difference.


As i said, i am a bit biased against dell due to having a bad ordering experience, but i think that it is backed up by the dell forums (see the non technical questions section) and resellerrateings.com. Its interesting to see how different dell’s ratings are between the past 6 months and the past several years. I ordered my iXPS based off of recommendations from friends and family who all loved the service they got, but the impression i have gotten is that dell used to be great, but for whatever reason has gone downhill in the past few years. But yes, on paper dell has great service plans.

“Adam did say that he experienced some artifacting at 500/300.”

Im pretty sure that he only got artifacting when he brought the ram above 300, but at 500/300 and 515/300 things were fine and dandy.

“I clocked my XPS up to 3800 as another forum member did. Performance is very similar. “
Adem got 3,971 @ 500/300, thats still a 171 point difference. Thats nothing to scoff at, i would still like to know why. Not that i am saying that 3800 is exactly small potatos either.

“Wrong--mine is a northwood.”
Well i you can count that as another point against the sails people who swore up and down that they would only give me a prescott.

“wuxga is incredible----not even offered for 8790 advantage dell.”
Im going to stand firm here. My friend has a UXGA screen on his 8600 and while it is nice, it did not make that much difference to me. Personally i would rather the 17” screen, which looks great also, but this is an issue of personal taste.

“2hr battery life is nice to have on such a powerhouse--advantage dell.”
We are talking an hour and a half vs two hours here. While percentage wise that is a big difference, both scores still suck. If you want good battery life go for a centrino.

“xps is very quiet--more so than 5680 or 4780--never used 8790”
A lot of people have been complaining about the 8790 making lots of noise, but its still too early to tell because it sounds just fine for other people. This will be a big issue for some people so dell definitely seems better here.

“xps has upgradeable graphics (don't have to mail in your lappy”
If you are capable of slapping in your own ram, its probably not that hard to slap in a new video card, but at least for me, i will probably buy a whole new system rather than upgrading the card. The 9700 should run everything for at least the next two years, probably three or four, just not with full graphics settings.

Hi,

I am in the same position, I am looking at both the XPS and 8790 for a gaming/workstation.

I have seen the XPS at the GDC expo, I must say that it is a well built machine with a good feel and durability. Some things that I did not like were
keyboard layout and size of the screen (why so small?). The graphics looked
impressive.

As for the Sager, I have not seen this model personally but I have witnessed the screen on a toshiba notebook (1440x900) coupled with GoForce graphics.
The desktop graphics were a bit blurry, but i'm not sure if this is representative of the Sager model.

Here are my pros/cons:

Sager 8790

Pros:
-larger frame buffer of 256mb
-dual hard disk capable
-larger 17" display
-better value

Cons:
-cheap look or questionable build quality
-short battery life
-only 2x dvd burner
-complaints from board members of noise and palmrest heat

XPS

Pros:
-nice finish and build quality
-4x dvd burner
-19x12 HD display
-no noise and heat issues

Cons:
-keyboard layout
-small screen
-only one drive support


Also pricewise the Sager is the better buy since I don't have to pay tax
and the wireless is already included. However I don't want to end up with
a cheap built notebook with cheap plastics and bad ergonomics.
It's a shame that the Dell waiting time is so long as well.

In the end however I want a machine that can take some beating, and perform well over a multitude of tasks (office/email/internet/programming/image editing/video/gaming/etc..)

Based on durability robustness and well roundedness which is a better buy?

Steve

Actually, Validation is the #1 priority in the semiconductor market. It means EVERYTHING as it gauges the quality of a chip. There's a reason every semi fab has speed bins. Dell gets the top "HQ" bin, everyone else gets the lower clocked bin. You may not like that, but that's the way it is. It means your card gets extra testing, but you are still shipped the same piece of silicon as anyone else gets.

To have a part that's VALIDATED at 446mhz as opposed to 415 is HUGE! In the RAM world, it's VALIDATION that dictates which bin gets DDR266, DDR333, DDR400, etc. The same applies to GPU's, processors, etc. The reason these speeds increase is from refinements made during the fabrication process. It's even possible that the Dell GPU's are made on a completely different fab line. It does NOT simply mean "it gets extra testing".

Yeah, but he isn't Sager or ATI, and he can't guarantee these speeds. Just because a few people on the forums can do it doesn't necessarily mean that EVERYONE will be able to. People were able to clock Dell-equipped GPU's to ridiculous levels without artefacting - on defective GPU boards no less - and still have no problems (if you read the stuff about the defective GPU boards, somehow Powerstrip mitigated the problem).

You may not like it, but ATI's GPU is simply a higher quality ATI GPU that likely came from a different speed bin. Dell isn't going to sell ATI to a CONTRACT on these parts without validation.

Which is another plus for dell... They'll come out and upgrade you to the next big GPU. I'm sure there'll be a cost associated with it (they haven't said thus far), but you at least have the option of upgrading your graphics adapter in a SUPPORTED way.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.... They ARE close DESPITE the Dell 9700 having half the memory (within 1%)... If you mean the differences in clock/mem, look at it objectively. The Dell's memory is clocked at 264. The sager unit's 9700 is clocked at 290 if i'm not mistaken. I'm not sure if that's what "makes the difference" - but for ha-ha's, i'll clock my GPU at 290 mem and see if there's a performance diff. Edit: Just did, 446/290 - 3dmark03 score is 3570 with omega.... 3898 with newest catalysts. Edit2: 290 mem is NOT stable. If in fact the sager's 9700 board is clocked at 290 memory, it's some kick-ass memory for sure.

446/263 I believe.

The only reason your ordering experience was bad was because Dell had an engineering hold. It's unfortunate you got tied up in that - but that shouldn't keep anyone from buying an iXPS. They're shipping now, and once you have the unit the support is pretty good. Anyone who had a defective GPU has since had theirs replaced (and that fixed the issue). Some were able to get it fixed on-site even without having ordered on-site service - something sager simply doesn't provide to begin with.

To cut yourself off from a nice piece of hardware because of idiot order-status reps simply doesn't make any sense to me.... but that's me.

Whoa.... The iXPS actually....................runs on batteries?

IF you knew what chip Dell would use in their next upgrade you would not get the Sager....

And you do?

And IF you do, just how long will we have to wait?

info please.

i concur with stevecc - WELL worth the wait the 9700 is just a hold me over until the next chip is officially released trust me on this one