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No posts about the Stevenote today? How'd that happen...

post #1 of 26
6/11/07 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 
OS X's new interface and dock, Safari on Windows: discuss...












(This post brought to you by Safari 3.0 public beta)
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post #2 of 26
6/11/07 at 6:07pm
i've been busy checking out Wafari.
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post #3 of 26
6/11/07 at 6:27pm
oh joy! konqeror is slow....safari is lacking....waffari? like the world needs more rubbish khtml offspring, and like windows needs any more options in the web browser category.

new interface looks nicer for osx... one thing that still bugs me is the stupid Finder icon in the dock...itsa background app...let it stay in the background. i dont need to have an icon to know its running b/c if its not running the system doesn't work...and its the least of my worries.
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post #4 of 26
6/11/07 at 6:41pm
Personally, I wasn't at all impressed, either as a consumer or developer.

The only interesting thing for developers was really the iPhone development, which wasn't all that good IMO. The rest of it was kinda crap IMO.

Will I upgrade to Leopard? Well that now depends on whether I will be able to run it on my G4 Powerbook, as I was planning on purchasing a family pack license for my wife and my's computers. Now I am not so certain to be honest.

The games are intriguing, but nothing I really cared about. Sorry I haven't been excited about an EA game in a long while now. And even then it was rare I would find their stuff enjoyable. They seem to subscribe to the, put out as much crap as you can till something looks good, theory of game development.

I think taking Safari to windows is just stupid myself. They really should just utilize what is already out there instead of forcing their own solution down other's throats. And I just can't see a benefit to them for a move like this like I could off of ITunes, or possibly Quicktime.

And of course from everything i have seen I don't think anyone has quelled the FTFF crowd yet. Just added 'new' features.

Seablade
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post #5 of 26
6/12/07 at 3:15am
eww...winfari is rubbish. just tested it...figured if its really faster it cant hurt trying new things. there is really no speed advantage to a well configured firefox setup, at least not significant enough to be noticed. what is noticed however is the installer is bigger (8mb vs firefox's 5.7mb), it installs to take up more room on the hdd (29mb vs 24mb) and lastly it has a slightly larger ram footprint. what else is easy to see is that all the fonts are BLURRY, so blurry that after a while you begin to wonder if you need to get new glasses. not to mention lack of any support, plugins, themes, etc.... all in all i'd rank winfari a hair above IE6 only b/c IE is a security threat like no other.

Opera > Firefox > IE7 > Winfari > IE6
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post #6 of 26
6/12/07 at 4:48am
Thread Starter 
Gee, god forbid the Safari for Windows beta isn't perfect...I mean, we just can't have that, now, can we? How dare beta software now look good or crash?

And the clicking the Finder icon in the dock brings any open Finder windows to the front; it's very handy sometimes.

----

I was disappointed with it too Sea...the last few Stevenotes have been very disappointing, actually.

One thing I was very surprised about was no mention of ZFS. One would think WWDC would be the best place to bring it up. Either Sun wasn't allowed to leak the info and Jobs had a fit and ordered it removed or it's not going to be the main file system. Hopefully it's still there and just not ready for prime time yet.

As far as Safari on Windows goes, most people are speculating it's because of the iPhone. Now that it's been announced that you can make 3rd party apps through Webkit and Ajax it only makes sense that Safari goes cross platform because, one, it won't be just mac users getting iPhones, and two, now anyone, not just Mac users, can make iPhone apps and test them.
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post #7 of 26
6/12/07 at 10:23am
Something I am impressed with is that Safari 3 on the Mac is much, much smaller than Firefox.. and has a smaller memory footprint. It doesn't seem terribly unreasonable for them to make the OS X version more reliable, and streamlined than the Windows version.
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post #8 of 26
6/12/07 at 11:17am
The reason for that likely though is the fact the GUI library is already loaded by default by the system, whereas Firefox it is not if I recall correctly. Thus saying it is smaller than Firefox is not necessarily true unless you count the shared libs in memory that likely aren't showing up under Safari in the process viewer. Not saying this is a bad thing or a good thing, just something to keep in mind.

I agree ZFS would have been one of the things I was looking for, and it is disappointing not to see any mention of it. I doubt there was much fallback from Sun leaking that to be honest, it would have been obvious today if the Beta disks they handed out of Leopard had it on it or not. And truth be told it would be stupid for apple to pull ZFS over that as to be honest their HFS+ FS is in need of some catching up, which could easily be handled by ZFS from what I have heard.

Seablade
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post #9 of 26
6/12/07 at 8:43pm
Heh I find it funny I am more interested in the not-covered improvements to Mac OS X server, than I am to the desktop.

Seablade
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post #10 of 26
6/13/07 at 12:04am
Thread Starter 
Not Apple; Steve. He got pissed off at nVidia for leaking details of new Mac models and cut all ties with them in favour of ATI. If Sun pissed him off who knows what might happen.
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post #11 of 26
6/13/07 at 12:13am
Well it was pointed out on the Ars Forums, it would be quite an understaking to get every demo CD reprinted that was printed for WWDC.

No I think a better bet(And recent interviews suggest this as well) that ZFS might make an appearance in XRaid or other Mac OS X server situations first.

Seablade
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post #12 of 26
6/13/07 at 1:22am
Thread Starter 
ZFS is in the beta disks but it's not the default system. I haven't even heard yet if it's even bootable or not.
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post #13 of 26
6/13/07 at 1:22pm
From what I have heard...

In Mac OS X Leopard ZFS will be a command line, read only, option. That is it.

Kinda nerfs it. I don't care as much about bootable as I don't mind partitioning, but not being able to write at all is pitiful.

Seablade
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post #14 of 26
6/13/07 at 1:53pm
I didn't even think that ZFS could be booted yet, so the fact that you can't boot it in Leopard shouldn't be that much of a thing. Hopefully it will be fully opened up with a Firmware update... 10.5.2 or something.
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post #15 of 26
6/13/07 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaze View Post
How dare beta software now look good or crash?

many of the apps i use in linux every day are in testing stages and they run rock solid and perform all their functions reasonably well. and those are written by volunteers on their own time...not professionals.
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post #16 of 26
6/13/07 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStu View Post
I didn't even think that ZFS could be booted yet, so the fact that you can't boot it in Leopard shouldn't be that much of a thing. Hopefully it will be fully opened up with a Firmware update... 10.5.2 or something.

It is not the fact you can't boot into it that bugs me, it is that you will not even be able to WRITE to it by default on a Mac OS X non-server install. Just read. It is pretty much NTFS on Mac at this point, fairly worthless IMO.

Seablade
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post #17 of 26
6/13/07 at 4:29pm
I meant to say write to it, instead of that second boot. My bad... though I can understand why you would be upset, ZFS is pretty nifty.
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post #18 of 26
6/13/07 at 4:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abf View Post
many of the apps i use in linux every day are in testing stages and they run rock solid and perform all their functions reasonably well. and those are written by volunteers on their own time...not professionals.
Yeah, and if you've noticed, a huge proportion of open source or free software is perpetually in beta. Not only that but this is the absolute first release of Safari for Windows. Rarely does a first release of any type of software ever work as well as a later one. For some reason no one seems to understand this and are criticising Safari for every niggling little thing that goes wrong...and that's exactly because people don't expect beta software to be buggy anymore thanks to Google and the other open source and free software projects that have been out for ages but are still called betas. ---- Sea, we still have a little over four months to see what happens. I really hope they ditch HFS+ myself and four months is a lot of time to work on it.
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post #19 of 26
6/13/07 at 9:40pm
Quote:
Sea, we still have a little over four months to see what happens. I really hope they ditch HFS+ myself and four months is a lot of time to work on it.
Based off the quotes I have seen from Apple Employees, I don't think it is going to happen. Sorry. I can dig up a link or two if you need though. Seablade
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post #20 of 26
6/13/07 at 9:50pm
I'm going to install Safari on my PC later tonight, and what does HFS and ZFS stand for? Sorry for the n00bish question
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