novice needs help about m6805 - Page 2

To summarize it all: Mac is difficult to learn or to adapt, while Windows crashh and die. Whats perfect? Good old notepad and pencil!

I posted this because Mac addicts (like Liberals do to Conservatives when they are wrong (which is most political discussions)) jumped on this poor guy when he stated facts. You called him ignorant yet, I would bet he knows at least as much if not a good deal more than you about computers, and facts are he is right about this. Reality of the world is a free market economy and capitalism work. Protectionism doesn't and never will. Apple is basically protectionism (price guaging and no competition). PC's employ a free market economy approach (best product for the price, lots of competition). That works just like in real life. Real economic models dictate that Capitalism (ie. competition) are what works. You can always tell who is losing an argument, because they insult other people which you did. He obviously has as much or more experience in the computer field than anyone else in this discussion. He did development for Macs. Nuff said. I think that right there puts his creds up there. And no one has argued he is wrong. He used logic. 4% market share dictate a lot less support for your product and limited software and upgrade paths. That is true. Oh, and bring on your sources, because numbers can be twisted any way you want. I will give Stevie Jobs credit. His film and production company is doing well...

The poor lady who started this thread must be wondering what hit her!

Ma'am, this debate has raged for decades; buy the computer that suits you best and be happy. You asked if eMachines are junk like you'd been told and the answer from all of us here is a resounding NO!!!

Now, Operaman, how did you happen to work Conservatives = Bad, Free Market = Good (which is what Conservatives heartily believe) into this?

But you want FACTS:

The FACT is you don't currently own a Mac, and haven't in some time. I do. So does h00ligan. As well as PCs. He & I use both every day, and think that the Apple product is superior in the home or student setting. You do NOT own one, yet are POSITIVE (like Bjorn) that PCs are better. Who is more likely to have the FACTS here?

A second FACT: every iteration of Mac OS X has been as great a change and advance as the step from Windows 98 to Windows XP... and those iterations happen at Apple about once a year. If you haven't used OS X 10.3.x (Panther) you have no idea what the modern Mac has to offer. It sounds as if your last hands-on experience was back in the OS 8 or 9 days, and comparing OS X to that level of hardware and software would be like me saying Windows must suck today because Windows 3.0 on a 386-class processor was pretty flaky (which it was).

My third FACT is pricing. A 12 inch iBook G4 goes for $1099; the 14 inch model (bigger screen, faster CPU & larger hard drive) will set you back $1299. Granted you'll soon want to add a stick of memory for $100 or so to either one, so let's say $1199 & $1399. The average user (home or student) really will need NO additional software, so that's an inclusive price. This is EXPENSIVE for a rock-solid attractive laptop with outstanding battery life & great durability?

Next FACT: software titles. We can debate whether there really are more titles available on Windows than the Mac - don't forget that modern Macs run OS 9 software in "classic" mode, as well as UNIX software, as well as (with some limited porting skills) Linux titles. Plus if you want to badly enough, almost ALL Windows titles through Virtual PC (I don't recommend this - it's dog slow).

But to be realistic, as Bjorn pointed out, if you go to a Fry's you'll see a lot more PC than Mac stuff on the shelf. Well, if you go to MacMall online and click on "software" I think you'll be in for a pleasant surprise if variety & choice is the name of your game. I don't shop for Fords at a Chevy dealer, so maybe if you want to know what's out for Macs you'd think about checking out a Mac-friendly store. There's also a lot of inexpensive or free Mac stuff online - check out VersionTracker for OS X.

Last FACT: insults. I've hurled none, and tried very hard not to get personal. I did call ONE and only ONE of Bjorn's posts a rant, and I think it was, but perhaps my choice of words was inappropriate. Bjorn, I apologise.

Like h00ligan I'm glad you like your PCs - I like mine. All we have suggested to anyone out there is that before you dump on Apple and Macs for past sins you go out and buy one (surely a rich opera singer can afford $1099?), use it for three to six months, and then come back - now speaking from experience instead of preconception - and tell us we are wrong.

Fair enough?

Cheers!

to what Tallan Said. I don't own any Macs currently, and have not ever as of yet. I own PCs because I'm love gaming, but I have considered getting a Mac numerous times before. However, I use and troubleshoot Macs at work frequently, and I would be absurd to not have noticed quality and variety of software that is offered to Mac consumers. Everyone has their own tastes, and thats ok. Any consumer of computers has to be aware of all the flaws and strengths of each OS and Manufacturer, but we can't debate and slander the hell out of each other...the closed mind learns nothing, but the open mind considers all, and is able to make the best choice possible. Truth is, there is nothing wrong with the M6805 for the young lady who posted this topic originally, but there is also nothing wrong with an iBook either. Its all gonna be a matter of what she likes best, and I think h00ligan gave some great advice about testing out both machines, and then make the decision that fits her best. Perhaps now this thread can be closed and given the peace it greatly deserves.

I am not a mac guy

but it's really hard to ignore that they are just way easier to use out of the box. If I wasn't a software developer working at a PC based company, then I would have bought a mac instead of my emachines computer. Since I will occasionally do work, and all of my microsoft development tools are required for that, I did not buy a mac.

For almost anyone else, I would recommend a mac. I have never had a horrible night trying to get a driver to work like I have on pcs -- everything simply works. The software is self explanatory -- I've never seen anyone struggle trying to figure out mac software. The laptops are nearly half the weight for any comparable PC with the same type of hardware (except for sony vaios which make macs look inexpensive ;-). One bonus for having a computer that not everyone else has is that there are less viruses written to attack macs. In short, they do everything anyone who is not a programmer would want to do immediately with far less hassles than any pc.

Since I bought an emachines, I do now have to find and install my own music studio software. I do now have to find and install my own software to let me print 4 photos on one sheet of photo paper. I had to install Mozilla myself to block stupid pop ups. Side note: How many advanced tabs can be implemented on a Windows OS -- I am not sure of the answer, but I am sure that it will grow exponentially with every windows update that I am forced to install because the OS writers in redmond never validate their buffers?

Listen I love pc's, but it's sort of like my love of linux. I like to tinker with things. Most people just want to use their computers, not program at the driver, OS, and application level.

By the way, why is it that linux is seen as having potential, but a mac on a unix platform is not seen as having the same market potential? Personally, I think going that way for OS X was a brilliant strategic move, and I think it ties them to the linux movement.

Once again: I do not own a mac. I do not program macs. I have used them many times because a few of my friends own them, and I have always enjoyed the experience. I would recommend a mac to any non-computer literate or semi computer literate person, because it will do everything that they would want to do without much effort at all.

on the hurling insults.. my apologies for that.. it frustrates me to no end to see people mac bashing with limited or aged knowledge. FWIW I did send a PM explaining this was all in good debate.

As far as his experience vs mine.. they are in two different areas. To bequite honest.. many developers I have worked with are HORRIBLE users.. just enough knowledge to know it all, but not enough to fix things. A lot of them are fantastic at writing and debugging software, but have no clue when it comes to using the machines. I am not saying he falls into this category.

To the above post.. perfectly stated.. tallon has also stated it well.

If I didn't want to play games, I wouldn't have bought my emachines as well, it was the driving force. And for a windows laptop I LOVE IT.. but not for light and durable.

The build quality is good, for a plasticy case.. it is not anywhere near that of an ibook.

The software title availability.. well all I can say is show me THREE applications that are used widely in households that are not available for mac. Or an alternative that is easier to use.

The only thing i think those proposing macs are trying to say is simply this. The ibook is a great machine, especially now with the g4, for what this lady wants to do.

Macs are not harder to learn either, if you didn't know either, the mac would be much simpler.. changing over takes about a day.

I own both, I use both, I deal with networks that are 60 / 40 with a few linux workstations in teh mix, running off redhat servers, with windows servers and just for good measure an os x server, in a company spanned across 5 states. I have a lot of experience with USERS and these machines, and I can safely say that complaints coming in are easily 5:1 pc : mac that is on a user question base.

This thread is making my head hurt The M6805 is a nice machine, but may be overkill for you. Filter out all the MAC -vs- PC fluff, and there are some nice suggestions here. The only thing I would add is try to stay away from celeron based laptops, you can do better for the same cost. Good luck.

the lack of familiarity will take about 2 hrs to get past if you read the os x guide.

software can be found for both platforms but be aware that pc software does not work on teh mac, you have to buy mac versions.

IMHO owning both a pc an a mac, i woudl say the ibook is a better computer for you personally, for ease of use, stability (you don't have to reinstall the os every 6 months to keep things running)

playing with images and sending stuff, email... if you want a web page, pay the extra $79 for a .mac account.

Bascially if you don't care about games and want to just USE a machine that works, gowith teh mac. It isn't that the pc is bad, it's that windows is incredibly insecure comparatively and a lot less stable.

Not to mention the ibooks are raelly durable and light.

I will probably be picking up a new ibook after the next revisions, which shouldbe out very soon. You may want to wait till the next expo which i think is in 2 weeks (i believe) check macrumors.com for release information.. they havea buyers guide which is pretty on the money averaging time between product releases and so forth.