NOTE : All Forum Members

yeah, well information can change over time, and it's always been like this. This, being that people ask questions that have answers on the site.

That's why if you ask people about a question that's already been answered, people give them about 5 links from within the forums.

Yeah... I think maybe a good idea to keep it under good control is when people have a question to try the chatroom first, so they aren't wasting forum space. Then if there's a question that isn't a familiar one, or if people don't know... THEN post it. I don't see the need for splitting it up by computer model... this makes people who have non 56/88 models rather upset, I would assume.

-=Gumpan

How about creating a FAQ that summarizes popular topics, like:

- The order to install drivers
- How to change screen resolutions to get bigger text sizes on 1600X1200 LCD's
- Adjusting backlight brightness to get richer colors
- Recommended cases for 5660, 8886/7, etc.
- Battery life and how to extend it
- etc.

The best subjects to start with could be found by browsing through the archives.

-- Daryl

Being new to the Forum, I think that would be a great idea, Daryl. It would be a lot of work for PC or one of the other hosts to keep the information fresh, indexed and editted, but that would be something incredibly user friendly.
Perhaps in the long run it actually would same time and needless repetition.


By the way, does Sager itself contribute to the cost of continuing this Forum? Not that I necessarily propose that they do.

Working on it, but just hang on. We're in the middle of a move to Florida and redoing our own website. I'm trying to figure out the best layout and have been thinking about it for awhile but just doing a little at a time. We will change it up more soon. Once we get to Florida, we will have broken ties to local businesses that take up a lot of our time and will be able to dedicate more time and people to the forums and everything else internet related.

PC Torque pays for and manages the site and it's not real cheap anymore

There are 'sticky' threads at the top of the tech support section that answer things like that.

As soon as you try to consolidate all those threads into a seperate FAQ document, you have to deal with obsolescence (which is a BIG issue here, with new announcements and driver releases weekly).

I understand that this technology moves fast, especially the top-of-the-line models, and that its difficult at best to stay up to date with everything. That's what makes this forum great!

I agree with gsferrari... posters are getting sloppy about just posting a new thread about the same topics over and over again, instead of reading and following up with existing threads. It only gets worse when people respond with speculation and half-related answers.

I'm guilty of this myself... I've posted several times about S/PDIF across several threads and in different sections because I was anxioius to get the answers I sought.

The folks that do have the answers cannot possibly be expected to answer every thread with the same answer over and over. That gets old very fast. And in the meantime, more folks respond with 'useless' replies.

Further dividing the forums into model specific sections will worsen the problem. Not only will there be more cross-posting, but eventually the sections will have an identity crisis when new models are released and people start comparing/contrasting differences (sound familiar?). Don't get me wrong... I appreciate those discussions, and find them useful and appropriate. But dividing the forum sections is not the answer.

The explosive rate of growth here is a behavior problem, not a media problem. It sounds very heavy handed, but I think the forum moderators need to start filtering and deleting 'duplicate' posts. That is a huge, time consuming task. And its made worse by the expectation that people come here looking for quick answers... moderating the posts would slow that down quite a bit. Yes, it will enrage quite a few people right away, but I think you'd see a much better organized and useful set of threads.

Of course, this is all just my opinion and take on the situation. Flame away if you like, but please offer your suggestion as well... otherwise you're just feeding the problem. Besides, this thread will be 20 layers deep and a couple pages back by the time I get back here to check on it... I'll never find it again!

-iNJ

Order. Order in the court! *bangs gavel*

Good thinking, gsferrari.

I see that PCTORQUE has already enacted some of your suggestions. Bravo!

I even resorted to copy/pasting my own response to some posts on S/PDIF--I know exactly where you are coming from.

I used to have in my signature, "I remember when Beebster only had 10 posts". I think I may have even joined pre-beebster... The forum is gonna grow and mutate on its own. You can try to control it, but ultimately the forum will sort of swarm in its own direction.

Unless you wanna go all big brother on it and set so many rules that you kill whatever personality it is trying to develop.

I prefer a "free market" approach to forum management. That way, when it is as good as it is (currently), it really is due to the members.

Of course there will always be a need for moderating. Many (most) people will always post before searching. All you do is put something in the rules about searching first. Then, as people post before they search, forum members will answer their questions--and then gently but firmly instruct them to do a search on this kinda stuff in the future. Then more forum members will pile on. Eventually you reach a group awareness and new people are slowly assimilated into that group consciousness as they post and read the forums.

I doubt this forum will ever turn into a [H]ardforum or something like that--the topic (Sagers) is just too limited. However, as people begin to look beyond the Dells and Toshibas for better value and performance, this forum will grow in popularity (and hopefully PCTorque will reap benefits from his hard work--and investment--in maintaining and designing these forums).

I have enjoyed watching the forums morph and grow--sorta like watching my 2-year-old, but not quite that fun

PCTORQUE, where in Florida are you moving to? Are you going to have a storefront where customers could come and ogle over Sagers?

Sarasota, we close on the building the 4th (April) and I'll be loaded up driving down. We'll have a nice office set up where people can come over any time to check the Sager systems out.

eh I agree...
I am probably considered new still... but I haven't made a single thread w/o searching and finding the answer there instead.

I've been here long enough to atleast see the same few questions being repeated 5 times each =/

FAQ would help the most I think

-Hype

lol, it is kinda overwhelming... I come to the forums now and basically just read. Most of the time I don't answer questions because they've either been answered over the course of ten posts or they're somewhere in a thread like two lines down from the one I'm looking at. I think it would be an excellent idea if people looked in the reviews and did some searching before posting a question that won't be obsolete... like: "If I don't get the mp3 player for the 8886/7, will I just have a gaping hole in the chassis where the player should be?" Lol, I've answered that like 10 times... new thread each time. The search function shows the date of the response and generally mentions the model number... Sager changes the model numbers when they make significant changes to the system, so that worry may be alleviated. I think I will work on a FAQ over summer break while I'm not interning... but I don't know how effective it will be. We'll see :-)

well to be honest i felt that it kind of lost its "community" sense already, it's expanding so fast...

But yeah, a FAQ section would probably be VERY useful.

This whole forum IS a FAQ. Just search it!

Creating another set of documents that dupicates the contents of 5-10 other threads is just more work for a moderator or FAQ maintainer. And, like many other threads here that contain the answers, the FAQ will go ignored over time and people will continue to post redundant threads. Redundant posts are a community behavior issue, not a lack of content or media issue.

Use the search function, that's what its there for.

I think we should collectively push the search idea before implementing some other strategy.

Could we please make this thread 'sticky' so that people see it all the time? I think it takes a lot of repetition before a habit/idea sinks in.

-iNJ

well, maybe make a sticky FAQ. I mean, they're really not going to search, some people don't know how to search well.

So yeah, the most commonly asked questions...

Why Sager over Dell 8200
Battery life?
5660 vs. 8887
Upgradeability
Hows the mp3 player?

help me out here.

Wow I sense burnout!

Grumble, Grumble...

Im pretty new here, and probably dont really have the right to say what im going to say, but thats the single beauty of the net, equal voice.

The only reason I feel the need to say anything is because I like this place...a lot. I have been around awhile and have seen many great sources of information, and friendship such as this fall apart over this kind of gripe and want for the way it used to be, victims of their own success.

As a relative newbie myself I am hoping my feelings might help to remind some of why they are here in the first place, and what it is that makes this a place to come back too.

That said...

Remember newbies may not know HOW to do a search, all forums are different.

The question they ask, is brand spankin new to THEM, and they are probably just as excited as you were the first time you found these forums. Remember?

All the pillars of this forum probably made the same stupid mistakes and asked questions they could have found the answer to if they looked, when they first found this place. I mean why learn how to use the search tool if you dont know if there is any reason to ever even bookmark the site?

Why did you guys stay contributors? Probably because of the enthusiasim, hard core conviction, and limitless understanding shown to you by the guys answering that stupid question they had answered 20 times before, the day you arrived here. Knowing that the information was there if you looked, but treating you like a new friend, answering it AGAIN so you felt welcome.

I found these boards a few weeks ago, asked my stupid questions, even got answers. I keep coming back because of the people here, because folks like Beebsteer take the time to do what they do, and do it because they LOVE technology, and Sager as much as I do, even when it is redundant.

Then when I decided this was a great place and worth coming back too, I began to learn how to use the sites tools. Since then I realized, CRAP it was already here a dozen times already, dont I feel stupid. But im still here, reading and trying to contribute where I can because someone did that for me, because the information here is AWESOME, and because of people like beebsteer, and GsFerrari, who answered a stupid question and made me feel welcome. Had I been told this has been aswered, try searching first. I probably wouldnt have come back.

Comeon guys, you love it or you wouldnt still be here. Where is all the enthusiasim, and energy to preach from the mount the virtues of these amazing machines, and technology that I saw and made me decide to stay? This whole thread just drips of the "I want it the way it was THEN" syndrome. It seems that sometimes we forget why we decided to come here in the first place.

All this grousing, and complaining wont keep newbies from starting threads, or asking stupid questions that have been answered in a dozen other threads. But snipeing at a new poster about SEARCHING first, or making them feel unwelcome, unknowledgable or unwanted no matter how unintentional, will most surely make them not come back, and all you have done till now is wasted. Who wants to participate in a place they feel unwelcome, or ignorant?

People come here to ask those stupid questions because they have heard you guys are great, the information is great,and that you have the answers they need in an open and unbiased forum. Imagine finding this place today, and the first thing you see is this thread, or the post that some other first time user asked, being answered with admonishments on how to use the forums, making them feel stupid, or unwelcome. How likely would you be to ask your question, or come back again to learn how to do that search? If it had happend to me, I would have been thinking, damn not me.. I AM stupid thats why im here..but I dont want the whole world to know it....now what was the name of that other site he told me about...

I love it here, dumb questions and all, Dont you?