t7600 vs T7600G - Page 2

just have to find someone who knows how to edit a Dell BIOS

If you were able to unlock the multiplier in the BIOS, wouldn't that in effect allow overclocking of whatever processor you happened to be using? I am a soon-to-be owner of a T7600, and would like to help in any way I can. What pisses me off is that Dell thinks its their job to tell me I can't overclock a system that I paid good money for.

In the same regard, you didn't have to buy their system. If you wanted to OC you could've gone with a different PC.

If Iremember correctly that was a BIOS hack that only allowed 2.66GHz. It did not provide a truly unlocked multiplier they could ramp up like the 1710.

I disagree. Apply that principle to any other hobby. Say a Chevy Corvette that you couldn't put an aftermarket exhaust or intake system on? People would be outraged. Dell doesn't care if I rip off the keyboard and take a piss in there, but I can't overclock my CPU/GPU? Once I legally took possession of this thing, I should have been able to do as I pleased with it. Besides that, what other laptops in this price range and performance range have factory unlocked clocks?

Yes but they lock them for a specific reason- Warranty. If they allowed everyone to have an unlocked system you know more people would OC, which would cause higher warranty returns. No way tell can verify what was a normal failure or what was caused by on OC.

Dell is just protecting itself. It's the reason the T7600G, while unlocked has a relatively low thermal trip point set in the BIOS to prevent the OC'ed processor from dying & preventing possible warranty returns on that.

In addition they offered the T700G as a price premium upgrade to make some extra cash. No one is going to buy one if they can already OC their system from the start.

Comparing the Corvette exhaust mod was probably a little off. A better comparison would be adding a turbo to the Vette& then having the engine blow.


They can tell what caused the failure & say -take a hike, where with an OC it's not that easy to tell...

One word, Windows. You legally own it but you cant do whatever you please with it. Sure you could make windows faster by disabling some routine checks but Microsoft isn't exactly gonna let you get in there and tweak that. This world has long had issues like this. Cars shipped with regulators are another case. Also, note that since the lock byte in the GPU BIOS is interpreted in pretty much every nvidia video card driver, it wasn't all Dell's doing there. Nvidia is the one that provided the method and I wouldn't be surprised if ATI had a similar technique.

Ah but if you read your EULA for Windows you never actually own it Microsoft do. Your just paying for a licence to use it.

I'm really keen to get my XPS overclocked - any more news on the BIOS mod?

Yes, this was definitely an oversimplification. Point is that you agreed to a particular license agreement, be it from Microsoft or Dell, which if you read it, clearly prohibits certain acts.

Hardware is different though. With software you pay to use it but with hardware I bought it so I own it and should be able to do what I want with it - I think thats the point TurbodTalon was trying to make.

I understand the point he was trying to make but he bought a hardware package which is under a warranty agreement. Yes, if I bought an individual part I would expect to be able to do whatever I please with it.

Its just like buying an Xbox or any other game console. You can breach your warranty easily but you still have to reverse engineer it to do something useful.

You can do what you want with it as long as you don't exceed the design specifications of the components, which is what they are protecting by not allowing you to OC the product. While anyone can OC, it's not something for a novice & has a definite potential to damage the components. They are preventing that possible damage & the resulting claims. You always have the option to not buy a particular product. while I see some logic in his statement, you have to keep in mind how many people brick their components because they take them a little too far... If I was Dell, I sure wouldn't want to repair it. As a side note, Dell does offer the potential to OC, it just comes at an additional price (T7600G). So you do have the option if you are willing to put forth the extra cash. Otherwise they offer a fixed processor speed, which is what you are paying for

I agree with zzpulp on this one. I CAN exceed the design specification of the components if I want to. Sure it may damage them (I've never killed a cpu overclocking), but its MY cpu. I should be able to do with it what I want. How are you supposed to brick a cpu anyway? Put some craaaaazy volts through it which most Mobo's won't allow anyway?

All it is, is pure profiteering. Companies feel they can make more money by restricting/removing features, and charging exorbitant prices for those who are willing to pay them. Its capitalism in a market without enough players (i.e. one - intel. AMD is out of the picture atm). The silicon is virtually the same, these product differences are mostley artificial.

how to brick a CPU? (if you don't know this you should not OC!) Let me count the ways...

-Trying to OC w stock thermal compound that is crappy at best, causing excessive temps that cause throttling which can't always catch a runaway thermal cascade. Esp in a laptop where there is limited space for cooling that leads to higher temps all around

-Trying to OC & applying thermal compound improperly, again causing thermal issues

-Improperly installing the Heatsink

-Overvolting the CPU

Yes it is your CPU, but why should they cover your CPU or other components you use it outside the guidelines they provide for the product remaining under warranty?

Would you really go out and spend your own money on a new one, or would you just do like a lot of ppl would and just say, "err...dunno why it failed, I need a new one"


...While there are honest ppl out there, a lot of ppl would just call up the company & say the component failed... They are just protecting there interests with a product under warranty.

I know what you are saying, the idea is nice, but it's just not realistic for a company to do that

The question you have to ask yourself is this-

If you were selling a performance product that was advertised to operate a a specific speed & offered a warranty with it, would you want to pay for repairs when ppl came in with a unit they had ruined because they increased it's performance level beyond the design specs?

I'm not sure what the problem is with bad thermal compound.
Last time I played around with a late model P4 WITHOUT a heatsink, it went super hot, clocked itself down and crashed after a few minutes, cutting the power. Big deal... these things are more then smart enough to stop themselves from burning out (unlike those AMD's back in the late 90's. )

As I said before, the only way to really kill a cpu is long term damage from overvolting it excessively over long periods of time, and thats way out of spec of normal HSF's anyway.

Besides, OC=Warranty Void. Whats the problem?

...The problem was outlined in my previous 2 posts. to be blunt... People think they know what they are doing, OC the proc, kill it or cause damage & then ask for a warranty replacement...

rep- "did you OC it?"
cust- "nope, just died"

result: company just lost money because a customer lied.. As bad as it sounds it happens, a lot more often than you think...It's not like they can verify it was OC'ed

the solution? remove the ability to OC unless people pay a little more for a system that has that ability (T7600G)


As far as the BIOS & thermal trip points, it's a problem called thermal cascade.. While there are several safeguards including

-BIOS thermal trip point
-Prochot#
-Thermtrip#

Even with thermtrip# (125c) catastrophic mode, if the PWRGOOD signal is not asserted within 500ms you risk silicon damage. You would be surprised how quickly you can hit 125c. If you have any voltage leakage ( not uncommon) you are screwed...

while it is more difficult to do these days, it still can happen. Add to that the fact that you are increasing temps in the surrounding area of a confined space considerably you are fatiguing other components as well that don't like high temps at all (capacitors)

I think I understand what your saying here (overheats before thermal shutdown is possible), but I've run a p4 prescott (the king of heat/voltage leakage) without a heatsink and all it did was hit 101c and shut down. Happened pretty fast (I knocked it off while testing a new build), a few seconds. I've even accidentally done it to a Pentium D 805 (one of the original dual cores). The computer just beeped unhappily and turned off. Overclocking will just make it hit its thermal limits faster, and turn off sooner. No real issue.

I've never seen silicon damage on a modern cpu due to short term heat.
I swear, try it on one of your various cpu's. You'll find the machine just turns off and works perfectly next time. Intel has this covered.

We haven't been in the Socket A world for a long time, intel could safely enable overclocking but *heaven forbid* it might make a marginal difference to their bottom line as all the hordes of cashed-up nerds move from high end cpu's to overclocked gear.

I never once said that Dell should warranty my shit. I just said that I should be able to do what I wanted with it. When I fried my 7900GS, people were telling me to call Dell and say the screen just went blank one day to get a free replacement. I thought that was a bit dishonest and just bought a new one. Think of any of your other possessions...are there limitations on what you can or cannot do to them? For instance, if I were to do an 18 volt mod to my guitar, ESP could give two shits less. Dell has been cornholing consumers in one form or another for years, and it seems like you guys are defending them. I don't get it. Aren't you tired of having to buy the latest/greatest new CPU when you could have probably just overclocked your old one? The jump from the T7200 to the T7400 was 160Mhz. Could have just OC'd to 2.16Ghz.

Good on ya. People are more honest then SolApathy gives them credit for. I would do the same, if it was clearly my fault.

And yeah the fact that intel makes us buy essentially the same product twice if we want to upgrade shits me too. Honestly, there is shit all difference in the silicon between a T7200 and a T7400/T7600. Intel just pretends there is, locks the multiplier and doubles the price. As I said before, its all artificial.

People who defend intel's pricing structure tend to be able to afford the high end products. I'm not sure what it is about it, but I imagine the 'exclusivity' appeals to them.

lol I never once accused you of being dishonest, don't take it so personally. I was outlining why they can't offer products that are unlocked, because some people are dishonest.

As far as it being impossible to damage newer CPU's, trust me, people manage to do it... Even with all the safeguards in place. I OC a lot & spend a considerable amount of time on other forums with ppl that cook procs. Just trust me on this, thee are ppl that still somehow manage to do it lol...While those safeguards I listed are in place they cannot stop a thermal cascade which will damage the silicon or surrounding components


..As far as the pricing structure lol I think you are being hard on them ( but thats IMHO) While there may not be differences in the silicon structure of some processors, say T7200-T7400,I assure you there are different levels of silicon quality used between the T7600 & T7600G. And yep, they charge more for & it probably did not take them anymore effort to get that better silicon..But that is really up to you whether you pay for it or not.

You can't blame a company for trying to make money, but you can choose to buy another brand if you disagree with the pricing structure... and no, not all people can afford the price, but that's is the same with just about anything... I wish I could have a Maybach 62, but you know those jerks overcharge for everything & I will never be able to afford one lol...

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