What Would You Like To See In Linux?

most useless n00b-sounding thread ever. but b/c i am bored i will answer the questions.

are you blind? its freaken ugly as sin

NO. Vista is doing pretty bad right now and linux user base actually increased since its release.

linux doesn't want to beat Vista in market share. When did linux leave "the game" ?

They are all more or less the same thing, save Fedora and Suse using RPM package manager and Ubuntu using DEB

A linux is a linux is a linux. Also linux has always been about the flexibility and the ability to customize.

Wine, Cedega, CrossOver

<--delicious

better support for obscure hardware. more universal / standardized guidelines for distros to follow to create a sense of unity. then again, just that very idea will get in the way of progress so maybe not.

I would like STEAM to work. If that happened I wouldn't need windows ever.

steam works...just a matter of figuring it out.

I have never been able to get it to work, and still be able to play online with VAC severs.

gotta love the one post wonders.

First, I like to see Linux community get their act together, get their head out from their ass with busy write so many different distro and want to be the best, none of them as the best. Being 10 years as Unix administrator/engineer for a few large corporation worldwide. I have not seen Linux make dent or impact on any of the data center I seen. Secondly, while you at it, please decide to organized and put the system files in one place, I had run into Linux with the system file being every where and some time in the odd place.

Linux been making a lot of sound for last 10-15 year how it suppose to take over Microsoft, but so far I see MS still standing. It may be true Linux could be superior then Microsoft, but what good is it of the OS if it can't run all the application ? the average Joe like to install his new application with just a few click, not geek style doing "README" this "README" that configure this, or that missing library.

to me Linux is just like another spoil child everyone want to put their hand on


Ugly ? do you think linux gnome, look pretty ? or just another useless interface? have you run in to a distro where the GUI menu to select/open something and it never come up ? that because it missing some library or the application not fully install and the menu just installed there for nothing, at lease under Windows you know it just don't randomly put the stuff on the select menu

it is true Vista is in a bad sharp right now, but at least I can load in my game and run it, I can run the application I want, what about linux ? what it been doing for last 15 years? please don't tell me about CrossOver or Cedegar, it was a joke, I paid for the copy and it properly cost me more then I paid for Microsoft OS copy, now it just sit on my desk collecting dust. Cedegar has promise to make game work and better in their release, but I got nothing but headache plus my 6 months subscription to their useless update services, in the end I have to switch back to Windows platform


they used to make alot of noise about beating Microsoft market share.


this will only apply to geek/nerd. do you think an average Joe know and figure out how to install his new digital camera driver ? or perhap his new USB sync phone contact list ?


they work partially , and it was a joke, I got a few copy sit on my desk. Cedega had more problems work with game then Windows platform

I think Linux will have their place in the development, coding and web server stuff. but for production environment, I would stick with Sun Solaris or HP Unix. Aix can be in the picture too, but that piece of software is worst then Linux and I don't want to touch it.

for desktop, if you are gaming, linux is not a choice, but if you developer and web surfer or like to adventure to new OS then Linux could be for you

well.... here is my solution. for gaming i bought a 360. case closed. this allowes me to run linux on all my systems and not miss out on games. even before i had the 360 i could run many of the games i wanted to play on linux, either native versions (ET, AA, Nexuiz) or via Wine (Steam).

Installing software in linux is not "readme, another readme, geeky tweaking" .. well, it could be but it doesn't have to be. Unless you need some obscure package with most major distros you have a repo selection that has more apps than you will ever use. Just fire up Synaptic (for example), run a search, click, install. This method is IMO even easier than windows (google, look for something thats not shareware/crapware, dowload, click click click).

customization for linux does require some prior experience with the system. the internets is polluted with various tweak and howto guides that are general or distro-specific. google, try, enjoy. customization of windows actually requires even more experience and pure guts. MS locked it down so bad that any tweak is insane. Not to mention that some tweaks are not even possible.

Basically don't sh*t yourself. Linux is good. Just a matter of figuring it out for yourself.

it maybe on your case, I am sure 360 will play the game you need, "but not everyone play the game they need will be available on 360" and one of the popular game is World of Warcraft is not on the 360. I sure pently game that available on PC won't be available on 360

This is why I said Linux will not go anywhere with an average Joe, because average Joe won't know what the hell is ./configure --help will do. And if you want talking about real customized Linux then go with Gentoo or Arch Linux, not the so called prebuild package like Ubunto or some other linux flavor.

you tell me it it good just a matter figure it out? do you realized just to figure it out, you need to know the shell stuff, the basic lookup of disk and file system via command line ? figure out the library it need, down load program and compile the crap and hopefully it won't run into the problems because of bad library or in compatible make or wrong environment setting. and you tell me this is not nerd/geek things? Being as Sun Solaris/Unix Administrator for so many year, the next thing I want is get something to work, not sit there and down load all the library I need to make program to work for simple stuff. I don't have time of the day to put in 3 hours just to get a simple program to work where I can do it on Windows box in about 15 minutes.

I am sure hardcore Linux community will come out either defense this or flame me to dead, but the truth is, any average Joe will like to get his program install with a few click, not bunch of command line.

believe it or not, the guys developing linux by and large don't really care if the average Joe uses it or not. and frankly I don't really care if he does either. I'd personally like to see us get to the point that about 20% of desktops run linux. If that were to happen we'd see 3 benefits: 1) a LOT of cash would be flowing in t the developers of the most popular distros. 2) There would be enough users that we'd see games and other proprietary apps being released with native linux versions. for pay I mean. I have no problem with for-a-fee software. and 3) Hardware vendors would pretty much HAVE to provide drivers that could at least compare to the windows versions. they might not be quite as good, but there'd have to BE drivers, and they'd have to be decent. I hope Linux never becomes the only option, and I don't even think it'd be good for linux if "average Joe user" were to run linux on his desktop, but I would love to see more people using it.

psh. you dont need to know the cli to figure out how to configure linux. The cli is the most powerful and convenient tool for the job (imho), but you do NOT HAVE to know it. There are tools to automagically configure nearly anything you might desire to configure.

oh, and you have to get pretty involved 'under the sheets' with windows too - if you want to get it tweaked and configured. Linux is easier than windows in this regard. much less risk of getting slapped than if you lift the skirt of the girl from Redmond.

See above, most modern distros simply don't require it. I'm a noob, and I know better than many of the things you're claiming are difficult about linux. Sorry, I'm having a hard time buying this. you're not likely to get flamed by this group, but much of what you claim is just plain not true.

You're right, the guys who developing Linux don't care, but guest what ? this is where they lost to market share to MS in the desktop, just like what IBM did back in the days, they don't care about IBM DOS and sold it right to used to MS, look at where MS now. In the computer world if you don't care what average Joe think, you lost the market share, that's simple, because most average Joe is also cooperation desktop user. For example, look at SGI, 20 years ago, they were the king of the graphic workstation, they are the first one able to developed high perform graphic workstation where PC/Dos/Windows and Linux still play with text base commands line. But look at where are they now? not many people know they are exist, if you ask some people in the computer world what is "Iris OS" some will give you a blank look because they have no idea what you were asking them. SGI did this to themself, they didn't care about what average Joe want or need, back in those day, if you call them up and ask to buy SGI, they simply try to ignore you because they think you can't spend enough money to get over gazillion dollars worth of equipment.

You are right you don't need to know command line to configure anything in linux........how do you install WINE again ? last time I check I have to use all the command line from "HOW TO" because the default WINE install via GUI just didn't work correct, then on top of that I ran into issued where windows application I need suppose to run under WINE, it not.

I am not Windows administrator so I can comments on this. but you could be right, there are a few instance windows went crap on me. However, average person don't need or care about tweaking something, they just want it to work.

I am not saying it is difficult for the people who know, I have no problems configure thing I need from any distro, but the bottom line is working almost 10 hours a day, and a next thing I need is configure correct library for my wine to work with game or perhap getting the music out from the iPOD. don't get me wrong Linux have been improve alot for last 20 years, but I think at a same time they may head to a wrong direction.

x21...you are not making any logical sense here.

#1: first you say that it takes a lot more to configure linux. then you admit you know nothing about windows administration. quite frankly...although both platforms require some work, linux is more flexible and actually easier to work with for heavy duty tweaks.

#2: you say installing apps via ./configure && make && make install is hard under linux. You replied distro-specific package managers are irrelevant to this argument (how is that?). Then you said "average joe doesn't want to tweak and just install needed programs" .. in which case isn't this exactly the thing tools like Synaptic were made for. Have you checked out how huge the Debian repos and the latest Gentoo tree actually is? They probably have just about every package under the sun ready to be deployed with a click or 2 (and no need to mess w/ dependencies, config files, or whatnot).

#3: The Linux (read: Kernel) developers didn't "lose" anything. They just made a solid product. Its up the individual distros to build stuff for a specific market. For example Ubuntu targets the average home pc user, and quite frankly their distro works quite well out of the box on most hardware not even requiring further tweaks.

#4: Last time i checked "apt-get install wine" (i am currently running Debian) works just fine. When its done installing simply run "winecfg" or install and run wine-doors and you are in order. Also last time I checked wine ran almost everything pretty well. had some issues with Steam Source (read: HL2 mods, HL1 worked very well) games but eventually resolved most problems.

[quote=abf;2776987]x21...you are not making any logical sense here.

I never say I don't know Windows, I am saying I am not Windows Administrator so I don't know the deep detail on the advance windows stuff, but I know enough basic to get me around. I know my way better then average user

Two click ? show me app that can install in two click, last time I check, WINE install was not two click, it was alot more involve with commands line after the GUI click install, then I remember something was not compatible, I think it was my sound card, so I have to run alot more more command line to get it to work. do you think average user like to install like to run through bunch of commands line to get his or her audio card to work ? what about WiFI, they require bunch of command line before it can be working. Last time I install Ubunto and WiFi have to configure manually via commands line to make it work, I mean come on, this is a basic stuff

they didn't lost anything, but their market share don't seem to go no where at all, they been singing alot of different tune for last 15-20 years how they are take over MS..... what happen ? and yeah, Ubunto is work out of the box, but what good is it that I can't get my game to play on it? my sound to work correct, or my RAID card?

Only a few game I play and it didn't work for me under any distro, I got it to work at one point, then when the patch update made it stop working. When I fire up my game on the patch day, I want to see it install the patch and work, not going in there mess around with the configure files....see my previous post about Cedegar, I paid for services like 6 months, it didn't work out, I have to go back to windows, and just so you know game perform in Linux is lot slower then Windows, as much as I hate Windows, but at least it work on the stuff I need. Linux could be stable product, but if I can't get all stuff I need to work then that don't do me any good. Sorry I am not a developer.....so Linux is not for me at this point.

now you DO realize that "losing market share" isn't something that concerns them right? I mean the product is available for free, why on earth would they care if you don't use the product? It's not as if they've lost income as a result - all they've lost is emails demanding this bug be fixed or that feature be added. I'm sure they dont lose a lot of sleep over those missed emails. Now don't get me wrong they would love if people decided to make use of the product of their labor, but for you to chide that (tsk tsk) "they'll lose that market share if they dont do better" is a bit like telling your local supermarket that if they dont keep the free samples stocked up that they'll lose that market share to the restuarant across the street - they simply wont care.


well, when I installed WINE I clicked the icon for synaptic, typed in "wine" hit search, then clicked the check box next to it in the search results, and clicked "mark for installation" and then clicked "apply". worked perfectly. Perhaps you would be well served to check again before posting things about which you apparently aren't very familiar.
and the average linux user will not have need to customize linux. So I'm afraid I don't see your point.

The only valid point I've seen you post so far, and it's not a linux problem, is games are a real weak point. If you want to game you'll probably want to maintain a windows partition. The MP3 players I've used were 100% automagically detected and supported under linux. I have NOT used an iPod brand unit, but from perusing the help forums, they do appear to work as well as they do in windows.

as drlouis just said, Synaptic is literally 2 click. SuSe's Yast and Mandriva's "Install and Update Software" apps work just the same. Run a "search" (or browse by category) for what you want. Tick the check mark next to the app in the list. Click the "Install" button. it will run its magic and you're done. Similarly opening terminal and doing "aptitude install appname" under debian or "pacman -S appname" under Arch or even "emerge appname" under Gentoo will all get a package downloaded, installed, and set up for you automagically.

obscure random chipsets..yes, but thats why we have ndiswrapper. Many major distros now include a GUI interface for ndiswrapper for an easy setup. Simply open the app, browse for your windows inf file, save settings and you are done. Special circumstances aside, Intel and Atheros (the 2 most popular options for wireless anyway) are natively supported through ipw and madwifi respectively. I have Atheros in my laptop and i forgot the last time i had to manually tweak stuff to get it going


and please stop calling Cedega "cadeger". I've had a 6 mo membership with them too and enjoyed the experience. These days Wine itself is good enough where their service is not need all that much, but still, kudos to the Transgaming team for all their hard work on trying to bring gaming to linux.

you right, Linux is not about market share, explain to me why they have Redhat, Suse or Ubuntu workstation. You see, the more users use Linux the more interest for the game/application developer to write game and application for it.

I try WINE a few dozen time, so yeah I know what I was talking about. not easy to get them to work with some game or application. I had one basic application interface for Veritas/Symantec Netbackup, it never work under WINE or the VPN, I had try openVPN as well, so far one game and two basic application I need the most is not working under Linux, I am sure some other user who had venture to Linux have some other problems with getting application to work under Linux as well. So it not just about the game, now I am not saying Linux or Linux user should stop using them, I am just saying they are just too busy coding without realize certain thing that can be done to make it work better.
You are talking about the open source here, everyone in the open source community say open source is great, but to me they just seem to like to develop their own thing, this is explain why we have gazzillion distro out there. every distro want to be superior to the other, like I said before, what good of the OS if it can't run thing you need. The only reason why Ubunto was top distro because they been making it easier to install, however, they still not at the point where I can replace it completely as a primary OS. if Linux so good then why people still have dual boot, different partition to run Windows ?

it not about just game, it about the basic application as well.

getting a non-native program to run smoothly on ANY system is going to be a bit of a challenge, this is not linux's fault. The complaints you list are only true if you're talking about getting them to run for WINDOWS applications on linux via wine or similar. WiFi, sound, etc all work at least as easily in linux as they do in windows. You only THINK it's harder because you havent learned it yet. Look, you just have to learn it in linux, you had to learn it in windows. At this point it's not a matter of being too hard in linux, it's a matter of everyone has already put in the effort to learn it in windows, and thus you're comparing doing something average Joe user already knows how to do to something he has to learn how to do.

Honestly, the fact that games wont run on linux is the game developer's fault, not the linux developers. Same thing for your RAID card - the manufacturer needs to release either a driver or specs so a driver can be written. And you are correct, wine did not install with 2 clicks. it took 4, plus typing in "wine". far fewer clicks that most windows installs.

you have heard many linux USERS going on about linux driving MS off the desktop, and they haven't. BUT they have gained quite a few new users, and more people are getting fed up with windows all the time, and are looking to linux as a possible cure (I was in that crowd initially)

you really need to download install and run either PCLinuxOS or Ubuntu for awhile so you can see for yourself. (no flame or disrespect intended but) you're looking a little foolish claiming things that are not true anymore. (I bolded the things you claimed don't work but that actually do, above)

You right it is not a Linux developer fault, it is a game/application developer fault, however, would you develop games or application when you know it only a tiny market share ? the reason why Linux had so small market share, because people afraid to use linux, they don't know if it will support their system, or perhap driver for their sound card, video card or WiFi.

Let see when I fed up with windows, I went out and tried, Redhat, Gentoo, Suse, Xandros, Vector Linux.......and in the end I still have to go back to Windows, as far as I like to move away from Windows, but when I tried Linux and it just didn't cut it for me.

Until then, if they can find the way to get some of the application and game I need on the Linux, then I will switch, at that time I can be a hardcore defense Linux, but for now, I think Windows is only thing work for me, and I plan to stick to it........I will still use Linux for webserver and small development work.

the target market of those distros is NOT the average user for a desktop os. They market to the enterprise, thus game developement is not a priority, and they do what they are designed to do.

you're right the more users linux has the more chance we'll get games etc developed which is one reason why _I_ would like to see more linux users.
except that it does install and run very, very easily. you may not be able to get a specific windows app to run well on linux, but why not simply use the linux tool that does the same job rather than try to make the windows tool work? You only need to run windows if you have a specific application that you cant replace with a linux app. and yes there are a few (games are the most obvious), however, again it's not a problem with linux. That said if linux doesn't meet your needs dont use it. If you cant get an application you need, then run windows. But it's not correct to say linux has to get it's act together because it doesn't meet YOUR needs.