What Would You Like To See In Linux? - Page 4

Well crap the new HD won't be here until Monday. So the test is on hold.

you just try to find a way get to me don't you ? give up. I said in the previous posted that I am done talking and Linux and Windows, I can sit there and point out manything wrong with Windows or Linux for that matter. I am not a fan of Windows, but at the same time I don't like to go to the long "HOW TO" under Linux to get something done. Linux may work out of the box for you, but not for other, and same I can say for Windows, but at least in Windows I can have few click then it get me where I need it to be. If Linux work for you , that good for you, because Linux didn't work for me, since I am a stupid foreigner and don't know what I am talking about, even know I work and support Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo all day long along with other nix stuff..... so spare me the detail....... and yeah I work with Unix and Windows Since the birth of Netscape 1.0 or before that.....and BTW, just want to give you something for your high horse Linux debate, I am sitting on Windows Vista as I type this, had two game client run/idle, dozen Hummingbird Exceed PC X server open to Unix server along with crap load of telnet connection, 3 virtual server running in side the same Vista workstation and listen to the music at the same time.......I am sure you will say Linux can do the same..... go head make it happen, then post the long "HOW TO" on the net tell people how easy is it for you

You really want me to do this? It actually isn't that hard, in fact it is probably easier in Linux than in Windows More secure at the least if you are using Telnet instead of SSH to other computers, or are you using telnet to talk to specialized processors, such as audio mix engines on digital consoles etc.? I do similar already.

Seablade

umm when I said telnet, I used Puttin, it is SSH client...so secure is not a valid point for debate...... search on the Internet Windows vs Linux secure, they been saying Linux is not much more secure then Windows.... there was even one time an article somewhere on the net suggest Linux us less secure then Windows......I work on both side of the OS so I am pretty much know what good and bad on both OS, and it come down to pick the right tools the right OS to do the jobs for me, but Linux just pick up at slow pace and I heard all the excuses....if they are so good why haven't they become a main stream OS for everyone? why can't they convince the Vendor application write program for it?.......

Economics would apparently be a good class for you to take.

Even for free things, economics still applies.

Seablade

if you said so,

The reason I say this is, even though Linux IS a fully capable system, economics does still play a role in its adoption. That is why we see it more in foreign countries than in the US as there are more reasons outside of the technical capabilities of the system for them to look at it.

Many governments do not want to depend on a US based Company for their computers and operations. See China and the Red Flag Linux Distribution.

Many people might not have grown up on Windows, see third world countries and the XO laptops as well as the effort to supply computers running linux in labs to schools not only in other countries but also the US. And the general feedback about these efforts are good.

There are other reasons than just technical merits of a system that determine whether or not it is succesful. See Sega, who typically had very good systems, but couldn't market worth crud and lost out to Nintendo as a result in the Video Game world. See Atari in the 80s. See half a dozen other companies that make good products but dont succeed.

Seablade

China don't like Windows because they don't trust US company, they don't trust US government, they think US government will put some type of spy software in the OS/program. You can tell me, this is your valid debate point, but the fact is this, in China, alot of people will work for food, low paying wages or anything to make a living, so they tend to have a lot of time on their hand to do something like this. In the US, people don't have time, they just want something that work when they need it, they don't care about the up time or how stable the system is, the only people that care about the stable and uptime is technical engineer.


The reason why Saga and Atari failed because they don't keep up with evolution and demand from users, they write a few game and think that was it for them and they got caught by surprise from Nintendo and other game maker.

x21... you tell me to "cut it out" yet you are the one who keeps asking the same question "why doesn't linux have #1 market share?" , and as seablade and myself have both tried to explain to you MANY times, has nothing to do with quality of the product, and everything to do with economics (marketing being a big chunk of it).

Here is a short summary of why Linux doesn't have #1 marketshare:

Microsoft had a bit of a headstart and during that time they grew a lot because they had little competition for the home desktop market (unix-type OSes were server/business oriented, and Apple was competition but they had their own problems). In this time we had a generation grow up on Windows computers who basically knew they had no choice but apple (which was more expensive hardware...still is). When linux came into play, because of the nature of the project there isn't a lot of money to advertise, and because every distro project had its own product you can't just advertise general linux (kernel), but have to advertise specific distros, and between the distros there is limited funding for marketing. Some of the bigger distros Suse, Mandriva, RH have a marketing budget but they wisely aimed it at the business world because that is where returns would be greatest. Recently you have distros like Ubuntu actually marketing to the home user, but since it is in their philosophy that their very best work will always be free (ie...not like Mandriva Free and Mandriva PowerPack) they don't really have a nice little display at the local electronics store, so once again people are generally not familiar options are available to MS.

Software developers (including games) are looking to make most money on each title. Since most people use windows (see above why) it is most profitable for them to release titles for windows. Once in a while there will be a Mac or Linux port, but those are few and far between, and actually often done by a 3rd party (and a lot later than original release date for windows).

This brings us back to users who are familiar with linux but want the specific games or software not available for linux, thus keeping them using windows because it is where that software is available. This is what we refer to as the catch-22. Users don't want to switch to linux because there is no commercial software for it, and developers don't want to release linux titles because there are no linux users to make it profitable.


maybe if you are stuck, here is a not-computer-related example of a popular catch-22:
Fuel Cell cars: lots of benefits to driving one (good for environment, no need to oil, etc), but people are not going to buy them because there are no charging stations (compared to regular gas stations), and new charging stations aren't being opened because nobody buys the car that needs the station. It is a vicious cycle and might take a while to resolve.

EDIT: x21..if you don't like seablades china example, google "France + Mandriva + Ubuntu" .. basically what happened is about a year ago the French government switched from WinXP to Ubuntu as their main OS. Mandriva got pissed off (because they are based in France) that Ubuntu was picked over them).

Language barrier here, were you disagree or agreeing with me in the first part.

Re: The second part of the quote, have you looked at the typical chinese workday? Americans have MUCH more free time in general(With certain exclusions I am intimately aware of, trust me). So I am not sure that your analysis is in any way sound, unless you are saying that they are getting paid and working for those low wages working on Linux? In which case I return to my question of whether you are disagreeing with me or not?

No arguments at all. Then again the US is thankfully only a portion of the world.

You might want to check your history on them. Sega and Nintendo came around about the same time in the home video game market(Nintendo has been around for MUCH longer making games, Sega itself has a history as well). There was no 'getting caught by surprise'. Atari's history is much more complex.

Seablade

Very true statement, but look at IBM DOS and OS/2 they got head start before MS, look at where are they now? that right bad marketing and want users play with their own rule not going to work with the general population, and that exactly what IBM did, they want people play with their rule, and they lost the market.

and this is why Linux need to find a way to get driver, write program to work with all device out there then user won't be afraid to make a move. Ubuntu been doing good jobs at it. I am just wonder why is that last for 20 years with all the noise, Linux can't convince vendor write the driver for it... part of it is Linux used to be hard installation, they only make the installation easyier for last two year or so under Linux.

while it is good alternative, problems is they cost more then regular car.....look at civic hybrid they cost 2k more then the regular gas Civic,,,, people not going to pay for something more expensive and not easy to get access to the resource. in this case Linux is free, but not all the application support under Linux


it is true American have much more free time, but what do we do ? we are being lazy, watching TV, lay on the sofa, even when they had free time at work, they tend to do talk on the phone and surf the Internet and still get pay for it, in China you are slave at your work place.

I can't agree or disagree with you on this, because in China they're using Linux for many reason, one of them is have to do with not trust US government, another reason is the people there willing to do more then what we would do.

Idea, use what ever the hell you want. I use and like all OS for there own reasons. OSX, XP, Linux

you just don't get it. its not hardware support why (in most cases) people don't want to use linux, but rather lack of commercial software that the people want to use which includes games and professional apps for work. and of course that software won't exist for linux until more people are using it to create the demand.

you are totally thinking of hybrids, not fuel cells, a totally different technology. hybrids run on regular gas as does any other normal car. fuel cells need charging stations.

arite i did a fresh install of ubuntu and win xp pro (took off vista)
originally i tried to restore grub... but i dunno i can never do it right so i just ended up install xp then ubuntu to have grub as my bootloader

xp with drivers base system (no extra software) ----> 50 min with drivers on hand

ubuntu WITH software, drivers, compiz fusion and awn
and browsed for icon, gdm, and metacity theme online which took about 15 min

total time (1 hour 15 min)


xp isnt that bad once you get used to it... all i gotta do now is install all apps and games.... *sigh*

You are the one not getting it, if not enough hardware support under Linux, more people will be afraid using because of hardware may not support under their system, the less people using it, the less commercial will be available because there are no profit it it.

I am giving you example of what typical consumer will think and do, in this case I give you the example of hybrid car rather then fuel cells where the hybrid car can get the gas any where, but the price is a lot more then normal gas car price. When a typical consumer go to the show room, if they can get a new Civic for $15K while the Hybrid run them almost $23k regardless the option, it it just a base price they can get for each car, and it they decide to step up to natural gas, the price will be about 2k higher from the hybrid, and natural gas is not available every where........so guest what ? they will decide on the one the a lot cheaper.

The typical consumer doesn't care, the only reason they use Windows is because that's what comes on the computers they buy from Dell or Best Buy or wherever.

thank you!

Commodore 64 FTW!!!!

(yes, I meant to post that)

LOL jk

Wrong, it they didn't care then why not every one using Apple ? that right when they look at Apple it is more expensive then PC. I bet you if Apple were cheaper, everyone and their mother on this forums will run out and buy Apple