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8886 or 5660 as a Digital Audio Workstation

post #1 of 16
11/20/02 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
hi all.. great forum

again another soul who cant really decide.. here are my points so far:

i need a separate HD just for audio only so:
5660 > external Firewire HD
8886> internal (hopfully 7200 soon)

my question is, as far as you know, do i have to go firewire absolutly for heavy audio editing (50+ tracks 24 bit 48khz) and then go with the 5660 or the soon to be release 7200 is enuff for that kind of workload on the laptop and then go with the 8886.. ( the fact that everything is inside using only one plug to power everything is a big +)

my wish is basically to have a 5660 with 2 HD ;-)

my set up will be:

RME Multiface + Cardbus
Cubase SX with tons of plugins....
8886 or 5660 with ful RAM

(p.s. > i m using cubase with a separate 7200 and i can manage to get 50+ tracks at 16bit/44.1 on my desktop)
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post #2 of 16
11/22/02 at 4:54am
I'm not sure what you mean by soon to be released. From what I've read, 7200 rpm notebook hard drives from IBM won't be available until sometime in 2003. That might be a little too long of a wait for you.

Do you know how much throughput you actually need for your audio editing purposes? Someone on this board mentioned that they have been able to do DV capture on their 5660 using the internal 5400rpm hard drive. DV capture requires a sustained 3.6Mb/sec transfer rate, so you can at least get that even using a 5400rpm drive. But if you require an even greater transfer rate, then a 5660 w/ a firewire external drive seems to be the way to go. Or you can get an 8886 and use a firewire HD for now, and then upgrade the internal HD to a 7200 rpm model when they come out!

~Kendalf
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post #3 of 16
11/25/02 at 3:36am
Thread Starter 
Hi .. i think this is a good advice and will focus on the 8886.. as far as how much "bandwidth" i would need i am not sure..recording at 16bit/44.1 is no sweat for most hd..it is when you go the 24bit/48khz or more that things start to stutter a bit to catch their breath....
Regarding recording DV on internal or firewire, i think the data are not the same > DV is one big stream that goes only to one direction..not both direction at the same time..audio on the other hand is a lot of datas streams that goes both ways ( like when you have to record new materials on the drive while it is playing back thoses tracks already recorded)...
But this is may be beyond the scope of the Sager forum ;-)

if anyone is using their Sager as a powerful mobile DAW, plz share your joy or pain..
THX...
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post #4 of 16
11/25/02 at 5:21pm
I'm interested too. I've been considering getting into audio work and am wondering if I'm gonna need to build another box (I probably will anyway). The sager works great for gettin the audio out (with the se-u55 that is...stock sound leaves a bit to be desired IMO). Maybe with an external firewire drive for recording or something...
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post #5 of 16
3/31/03 at 3:55pm
-jahlove
-my question is, as far as you know, do i have to go firewire absolutly for heavy audio editing (50+ tracks 24 bit 48khz)

Why are you running 50+ tracks simultenously.
The most I've ever run is around 16.
Are your recording a band or an ochestra?
Also if your recording to DVD you'll need that 24 bit 48khz.
But if your only going to CD keep it at 16bit 44,100khz.
None will be the wiser.
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post #6 of 16
3/31/03 at 7:57pm
Oh, there is a difference. Maybe it's just in my mind - but I always go 24 bit when I have the option. It's always easier to downgrade to 16 bit (impossible to go up to 24 from 16).
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post #7 of 16
3/31/03 at 9:33pm
I dunno I could never hear that faint difference between a file downgraded from 24bit to 16bit and a file created at 16bit.

24bit always seemed like hype to me as far as CD audio goes.
Plus it eats up more of my precious HD space.

Mabey I'll change my mind when my accountant/wife lets me get a second HD.
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post #8 of 16
3/31/03 at 10:21pm
Thread Starter 

DurrmAGeorge :50+ tracks

well i ll get around 10 tracks for drums (mono)..a couple of loops (mono or stereos..) more tracks for synths, some special effex sounds ( maybe one or two tracks..) some vocals ( harmonies + mains vox) ... now i m using a very weak and old pc too weak in fact for anything like live big lush reverb or creasy delays, so i have to render everything to traks... so i like to keep a max of separate thing..

now of course with so much power i won t use so much tracks with the sager with the effects parts.. but i ll still render some effect to trcks because of more controls for the mix..

it is almost the same philosophy with mixing on a big board.. i like everything to be on the big faders enven the effetcs returns..so on channel 25 of the board (were you have your delay return for exemple) you can still add a little of phaser thru send 1 of channel 25..on the patchbay grab a patchcord and double channel 25 out to the input of channel 26 for exemple, but you take it out of the main 2bus for exemple, send 1 of chan 26 is feeding effex "out of this world" .. you keep chan 26 muted .. and from time to time you arrange the track so by unmutting channel 26 you get a delay that feed that "out of this world effex" when you want ( maybe once or twice in the song)
so basically because of a short moment in the song, you are using in this exemple a couple more channels, but you get a unique mix that s never static... blablabla...

anyway a very good exemple of that is "waiting for the night" on the Violator album of Depeche Mode... not too many tracks..but try to imagine how many channels they had to use just to process the voice..i dont know the detail of the mix, but everything could be done on an SSL/Neve and a Studer 24 trk..and a couple more channels than the number of sound you actually hear..

but nowadays depending how flexible the routine your effex are on you music app most of that stuf can stay virtual wich is gggggoodd!!! ;-)
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post #9 of 16
3/31/03 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 
..and i don t mind using 16bit/44.1
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post #10 of 16
3/31/03 at 10:27pm
Thread Starter 

do i have to go firewire absolutly for heavy audio editing ?

i get those track numbers using my second internal 7200 hd..no prob really because you really never have 50 tracks playing at the same time..maybe 20 or so depending of the song arrangement

so so far 7200 hd for laptop are not availiable, the best next thing are firewire drives...at 7200 rpm of course..
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post #11 of 16
3/31/03 at 11:28pm
I would like to add that if you're going to be working with audio on your laptop, please check out the Echo Indigo soundcard which costs about $100.00. I use Sennheiser HD600 headphones and Etymotics ER4S earplugs for my audio work, and they tend to pick up every little noise if you work from the laptop's built-in audio - even typing letters on the keyboard or moving the mouse emits strange noises from the audio out. With the Indigo card, you get dead silence and crisp, clean highs and well-defined lows. The card is a must-have for doing your final mastering

Good luck with your audio research!
- Keal
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post #12 of 16
4/2/03 at 3:53pm
Firewire all the way.
I have the slightly older Sager 8880, and if I rendered out 25 trks and then try to mix, I think it would probably choke the system.

Again I've never tried so who knows?

I upgraded from my crappy old 500 Mhz Compaq where at 16 trks
was a miracle, but I run 20-30 VsTi's and VsT fx. So my prob was more on processor power. The 8880 has barely flintched at what- ever trks I've thrown at it.

You need a fast drive. A 7200rpm firewire drive should work nice. Just rip out the one in your desktop an put it in a firewire case.

.......................I got to now go and see how many trks it takes me to crash Logic 5.5....................heh heh heh
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post #13 of 16
4/2/03 at 6:43pm
Thread Starter 
man logic 5.5? .. haven t crossgraded yet??
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post #14 of 16
4/4/03 at 3:55pm
crossgraded to........?
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post #15 of 16
4/4/03 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
OS X and Logic 6...
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post #16 of 16
4/6/03 at 11:48am
oh......thought you had something worthwhile to say.
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