NotebookForums.com › Forums › Notebook Manufacturers › Apple Forums › Apple Notebooks › Serious questions about switching to Mac
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Serious questions about switching to Mac

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
A couple of disclaimers: I'm new here (though I have been reading posts every so often), and I'm not here to stir any feathers. If this thread belongs more in the "Windows, Linux, and Other OS" forum, certainly, mods, feel free to move it there. I'm also accustomed to forum regulations, so while I didn't do a specific search for everything on here, I do feel that I've read the bulk of the general answers to my questions elsewhere (such as the "50 reasons to get a Mac" article).

That being said... I do have a few questions remaining about going to a Mac. I'm a mechanical engineering student at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and have used Windows machines since 1998, really. Between 1995 and 1998, I used Mac, back when it was running a fantastically crash-prone OS (don't remember which builds... but I wasn't impressed). Moving over to Windows made me like Windows a lot more, mainly because it was far more stable. Now, I'm running my four Dell Precision M60 (bought in January of 2005 with a 2.0 GHz Dothan, 1 GB RAM, and 128 MB nvidia Quadro Fx1000. It's also got the 7200 RPM, 80 GB HD, and in general, I love it. I prefer a stripped-down OS that's compatible with my engineering programs -- mostly Pro/Engineer and Matlab -- and this three year-old machine continues to do a good job with both. This paragraph, in a nutshell, means that I'm relatively good with Windows -- I know how to adjust it, how to fix it, and how to find things (grabbing a Youtube video from the cache, for instance, or tweaking the registry for a faster shutdown). I'm also familiar with the UI.

That being said, my best friend introduced me to his MBP a year ago. At first, I was hesitant to embrace it, but I've since become more attracted to Macs. My lingering question is three-fold: whether to get a Penryn or wait for the Montevina platform; whether the price increase over a comparable Dell is justified; and what advantages Leopard will bring to me, someone who barely uses any features in Windows. I'd appreciate any suggestions you have on this -- particularly the last point. I'll elaborate some more for those of you interested...

1) I don't NEED performance after this semester. I'll be starting grad school in the fall, but I'm fine enough with going to a computer lab to use Pro/E or Matlab if need be (and I can also dual-boot). The main reason I'd want to wait for Montevina is for more USB ports, better battery life, and whatever fun gizmos Apple throws on there. However, the single reason I'm attracted to the [2.4 GHz] Penryn is that the 2.4 GHz Penryn is now $1999 ($1799 with education discount). I can justify this; the $2800 (after tax) 2.4GHz Merom is simply too expensive. If Apple doesn't continue to offer the $1999 price point, a Mac is absolutely no in my near future. A corresponding performance upgrade will therefore be appreciated only if the $1999 price point continues to exist. Again, I'm not looking for performance.

2) Dells have more USB ports and I'm familiar with Windows. This justifies a Dell purchase for me. The XPS 1530 has the same graphics card [256 MB version] as the MBP [256 MB version], and the Precision line continues to offer the workstation-class Quadro graphics cards. Though I won't necessarily need the Quadro, I know that I can get a comparable Precision [to a MBP] for roughly $1,900 after taxes (compared to $2138 for the MBP after taxes) when Dell has its discounts, and the 1530 can be had for around $1,500 when there's a discount (my neighbor has one).

3) The big question is Leopard vs. XP. Like I said, I don't need fancy features; I want functionality. While the glistening Leopard OS does indeed look great, I'd rather have a processor not be stressed 15% of the time than for the native OS processes to consume 15% just to open folders and be fancy in doing so. I also have a fairly long list of applications that might or might not work in Leopard (see below) in addition to other compatability questions:

a) What archiving program do you recommend? I have a bunch of .7z files (akin to .zip or .rar files) on my current machine... i can download certain .7z programs for mac, but i dunno how stable/good they are.

b) I know Macs are supposed to be more secure (due either to their architecture or because there's fewer people with Macs...), but what anti-virus and firewall do you recommend?

c) I run a program called CCleaner -- is a similar application necessary for Macs?

d) Would I need specia codec packs to run, say, DivX? (I use "Cole 2K media" on my current machine)

e) Does Mac come with its own CD-burning program? (I'm using Easy CD creator)

f) I use Foxit Reader to open pdfs. I know Preview does it, but are there any advantages to using Preview? I can annotate in Foxit and love it because it's insanely light and fast.

g) I take a lot of photos and want to start using Google Photos to display them (rather than Facebook). Does iPhoto interface with Google? Or would I still need Picasa?

And I think that's it. I apologize for this hugely-long message. If there are two specific questions I have, they'd be:

1) Given my performance needs and desires, is it worth it to wait for Montevina?
2) Given my familiarity with Windows and my desire to have as streamline an OS as possible, is there any reason for me to switch OS?
post #2 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerotor77W View Post
A couple of disclaimers: I'm new here (though I have been reading posts every so often), and I'm not here to stir any feathers. If this thread belongs more in the "Windows, Linux, and Other OS" forum, certainly, mods, feel free to move it there. I'm also accustomed to forum regulations, so while I didn't do a specific search for everything on here, I do feel that I've read the bulk of the general answers to my questions elsewhere (such as the "50 reasons to get a Mac" article).

That being said... I do have a few questions remaining about going to a Mac. I'm a mechanical engineering student at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and have used Windows machines since 1998, really. Between 1995 and 1998, I used Mac, back when it was running a fantastically crash-prone OS (don't remember which builds... but I wasn't impressed). Moving over to Windows made me like Windows a lot more, mainly because it was far more stable. Now, I'm running my four Dell Precision M60 (bought in January of 2005 with a 2.0 GHz Dothan, 1 GB RAM, and 128 MB nvidia Quadro Fx1000. It's also got the 7200 RPM, 80 GB HD, and in general, I love it. I prefer a stripped-down OS that's compatible with my engineering programs -- mostly Pro/Engineer and Matlab -- and this three year-old machine continues to do a good job with both. This paragraph, in a nutshell, means that I'm relatively good with Windows -- I know how to adjust it, how to fix it, and how to find things (grabbing a Youtube video from the cache, for instance, or tweaking the registry for a faster shutdown). I'm also familiar with the UI.

That being said, my best friend introduced me to his MBP a year ago. At first, I was hesitant to embrace it, but I've since become more attracted to Macs. My lingering question is three-fold: whether to get a Penryn or wait for the Montevina platform; whether the price increase over a comparable Dell is justified; and what advantages Leopard will bring to me, someone who barely uses any features in Windows. I'd appreciate any suggestions you have on this -- particularly the last point. I'll elaborate some more for those of you interested...

1) I don't NEED performance after this semester. I'll be starting grad school in the fall, but I'm fine enough with going to a computer lab to use Pro/E or Matlab if need be (and I can also dual-boot). The main reason I'd want to wait for Montevina is for more USB ports, better battery life, and whatever fun gizmos Apple throws on there. However, the single reason I'm attracted to the [2.4 GHz] Penryn is that the 2.4 GHz Penryn is now $1999 ($1799 with education discount). I can justify this; the $2800 (after tax) 2.4GHz Merom is simply too expensive. If Apple doesn't continue to offer the $1999 price point, a Mac is absolutely no in my near future. A corresponding performance upgrade will therefore be appreciated only if the $1999 price point continues to exist. Again, I'm not looking for performance.

2) Dells have more USB ports and I'm familiar with Windows. This justifies a Dell purchase for me. The XPS 1530 has the same graphics card [256 MB version] as the MBP [256 MB version], and the Precision line continues to offer the workstation-class Quadro graphics cards. Though I won't necessarily need the Quadro, I know that I can get a comparable Precision [to a MBP] for roughly $1,900 after taxes (compared to $2138 for the MBP after taxes) when Dell has its discounts, and the 1530 can be had for around $1,500 when there's a discount (my neighbor has one).

3) The big question is Leopard vs. XP. Like I said, I don't need fancy features; I want functionality. While the glistening Leopard OS does indeed look great, I'd rather have a processor not be stressed 15% of the time than for the native OS processes to consume 15% just to open folders and be fancy in doing so. I also have a fairly long list of applications that might or might not work in Leopard (see below) in addition to other compatability questions:

a) What archiving program do you recommend? I have a bunch of .7z files (akin to .zip or .rar files) on my current machine... i can download certain .7z programs for mac, but i dunno how stable/good they are.

b) I know Macs are supposed to be more secure (due either to their architecture or because there's fewer people with Macs...), but what anti-virus and firewall do you recommend?

c) I run a program called CCleaner -- is a similar application necessary for Macs?

d) Would I need specia codec packs to run, say, DivX? (I use "Cole 2K media" on my current machine)

e) Does Mac come with its own CD-burning program? (I'm using Easy CD creator)

f) I use Foxit Reader to open pdfs. I know Preview does it, but are there any advantages to using Preview? I can annotate in Foxit and love it because it's insanely light and fast.

g) I take a lot of photos and want to start using Google Photos to display them (rather than Facebook). Does iPhoto interface with Google? Or would I still need Picasa?

And I think that's it. I apologize for this hugely-long message. If there are two specific questions I have, they'd be:

1) Given my performance needs and desires, is it worth it to wait for Montevina?
2) Given my familiarity with Windows and my desire to have as streamline an OS as possible, is there any reason for me to switch OS?

Here is my short and sweet answer for you, if you want to discuss it further you can IM me to chat.

1.) The only advantage to montevina is the FSB going from i believe 800MHz to 1033MHz. Is this a massive increase, the simple answer is no. The montevina logic board when it is introduced most likely in June as macrumors.com has leaked, will still run the same penryn processor most likely. The other advantage to waiting is the potential increase in VRAM but that isn't a fact. It seems for your needs the new Penryn's would be more than enough.

2.) You can run windows on your MBP. If you feel like you need windows for certain things, PDF viewer/editor, zip programs, even your more proprietary software will run on it.

Your price difference between the MBP and a new dell seems about right since the MBP has some purely aesthetic features the dell doesn't (ie: touchpad, LED backlit, magnetic power plug, and all around sleek look.)

If you are even more unsure and would like to save more money I know Apple has discounted the Santa Rosa MBP and that might be an even better fit since it will be more competitive price wise to the Dell.

Hope this helped.
post #3 of 16
Matlab is available for OS X. Pro/E looks like it's Windows only but BootCamp will take care of it nicely. It might also run well in Parallels/VMWare if you don't want to dual boot. Also, Apple product prices have a history of staying the same/going down. The next version of the MBP should have the same price point.

Do you really need more than two USB ports? On a Desktop maybe but it's been my experience that most laptop users rarely use their USB ports and when they do it's generally while they're tethered to a desk anyway where a USB hub becomes a viable option. Also, since price is a problem, check Amazon's prices...they're tax and shipping free and often offer discounts of up to 150 dollars which solidly beats the pants off the educational price so long as you don't need to customise the machine.

OS X has had pretty much the same amount of eye candy in it since it's beginning seven years ago. Machines then were more than capable of handling it and machines now are as well especially since almost all the UI stuff is sent directly to the video card now.

OS X has zip capability built directly into it. I don't understand why people are switching to 7z all the sudden but there is at least one 7z unarchiver out there that works well.

No one I know runs any anti-virus on their Macs—myself included—but for those who want to there's ClamXav. OS X has a firewall built in that's very capable.

OS X doesn't need utilities like CCleaner. There's no registry on OS X to bloat and cause the system to slow down. OS X does have it's own unique needs, however, but all of them are handled quite nicely in Maintenance.

VLC will play pretty much every video/audio file you want to play, however, if you plan on playing things through FrontRow/iTunes/Quicktime you can download codec packs like Perian.

Macs can burn CD and DVDs out of the box but for more advanced options Roxio's Toast can't be beat.

Preview is about the best PDF reader out there. It's faster than Adobe's and it renders PDFs much better. It can annotate PDFs.

Google offers Picasa Web Albums for iPhoto.

If you need/want a new machine now go ahead and buy one. Chances are Montevina won't show up in the Mac until September or so.

OS X is a streamlined OS. Without a Registry and with regular—monthly or so—maintenance OS X will run as fast for you a year later as it did the day you got it. If you're used to keeping Windows running well, however, the only real reason to switch is personal preference.
post #4 of 16
Hi there. As a mechanical engr student at USC, I'd like to throw in a few cents as well. It's a long post, so grab a beer or something. I want to clear up as much as I can because I know a new computer is a huge investment, and, as an engineer, all my work revolves around it.

I would say your best bet is to buy VMWare/Parallels to install XP Pro SP2 on your machine and then buy 4 GB RAM through a third party like Newegg or something. It is much cheaper this way, and those 3-D CAD programs like RAM.

I don't know anything about Montevina, so I will steer clear of that.

However, I would say that Leopard is a massive upgrade from both Win XP and Vista. You're probably asking why. Underneath the shiny, sleek exterior, OSX is really designed for productivity. The reason is, OSX has better window and desktop management hands down - it's all geared toward productivity. I personally am a huge fan of F9 and F11, as well as virtual desktops available through Spaces.

Why is F9 better than a taskbar? Well, when you hit F9, you get an image of all the windows at once, and I feel that you can digest an image much faster than having to read each individual title in the minimized taskbar windows. When I use MATLAB, all the freakin' titles look the same for every window that MATLAB currently has open. When I run it on my iBook, I just hit F10, and i get a visual representation of the command window, the editor, the SISO PID controller thingy, and my plots - no need to hunt for the right title. (note: you will need MATLAB 7.4 or higher for Vista/Intel Macs)

Also, OSX has really done a stellar job of integrating hotkeys into the fundamental operation of the OS. You can easily press a key combo in a fraction of the time it takes to hunt for a menu item buried under some arcane menu path using a mouse. This is especially true if using a trackpad..trackpads are just slow, period. If you watch somebody experienced with Photoshop, you can see how hotkeys drastically speed up any workflow.

So, in short, the animations for all this seem like flashy eyecandy, but they exist for very powerful reasons...to let you work faster and more efficiently.

Okay moving on. OSX maintains itself and does a fine job. I know many art students who have used their Powerbooks for over 4-5 years now with no problems. The OS runs as fast as the day it was installed, without esoteric error messages (remember those annoying "missing .dll" messages?) The number one reason for a busted Mac is hard disk failure, which is inevitable with any modern computer. Hardware failure is the only culprit for a busted Mac really... Basically, OSX does what its supposed to do and stays out of your way.

Alright, now to address Pro/E.

I have experience in Solidworks and Solidedge, which are the same type of software, just created by diff. companies. 3-D part modeling, assembling, finite element analysis, etc. I know that one of the students runs these through Parallels on her first-gen regular Macbook with no performance hit.

I actually think that running through the virtual machine should have no detectable performance drops because these types of software are CPU intensive and OpenGL intensive. This is important because the only area where VMWare/Parallels lag behind is in their DirectX and 3-D GPU driver support. This is only important if you are a hardcore gamer, and even then, you can just boot into Windows natively through BootCamp.

A few misc things:

You will appreciate the Sleep feature that kicks in when you shut the lid. In fact, I usually reboot at most once every 4-5 days, and only because i have installed new OS updates or some other software. No reason to waste those annoying minutes booting up.

the Macbook Pro is the quietest laptop I have ever heard (or not heard, I guess). The weird thing is, in a quiet room like the library, you can hear all the other laptops' fans going. I guess noise is just one of my pet peeves.

I must sound terribly elitist after this post, but if I had it my way, I'd just buy a bunch of parts off Newegg and build my own Mac workstation for like $800 :P Also, I too want more USB ports. USB hubs just can't provide enough power to connect to a USB thumbdrive :\

Okay.. if you have anymore questions, feel free to email me!
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply -- this week is extraordinarily busy for me, but I'll try to ask a few more questions.
post #6 of 16
i just made the switch you wont regret it plus even if u do just worst comes to worst format the whole hd and install vista/xp. it works perfectly on the new macs flawless and speedy.

you have nothing to lose! i've been using mine for 2 days and i love it! i've been a windows user for 15+years and finally cracked and bought a macbook leopard is great!
post #7 of 16
Yeah, some aspects of OSX will feel foreign at first, but after about 2 hrs of poking around, you'll start to feel at home.

When in doubt, Spotlight!

post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Well... I think your words all paid off, as I bought a 2.4 GHz MBP (standard everything; no upgrades) on Sunday evening.

I'm enjoying it right now, though I do have a few questions (what else is new!) --

1) I use Adium as an IM client, but is there any way to change the idle-time reporting? In Gaim/Pidgin, which I used in Windows, I could set it to base idle-time from the last message I sent (or always display that I'm not idle), but I haven't found that in Adium. Any takers?

2) I used to install Windows top-down: I would install the largest programs (Pro/E, Matlab, Photoshop, and Office) first. I haven't gotten my hands on Matlab, Parallels/Boot Camp, and Office yet, so I went ahead and installed programs as they came to me... smcfancontrol, Adium, VLC. Any disadvantage to doing this? How does fragmentation work in Mac? (I know that the HD "takes care of itself," but how well? Given that I'm throwing it small files here and huge ones later...)

3) The text in Safari isn't quite as crisp as I'd like it to be. I know that there was a fix for this in IE; anything for Safari?

4) SMC doesn't run on startup, even though the option for it to run on startup is checked. Any thoughts?

5) I have an extremely loud SuperDrive when the machine starts or shuts down... the drive works (reads DVDs and CDs), but is it supposed to be this loud?
post #9 of 16
Quote:

2) I used to install Windows top-down: I would install the largest programs (Pro/E, Matlab, Photoshop, and Office) first. I haven't gotten my hands on Matlab, Parallels/Boot Camp, and Office yet, so I went ahead and installed programs as they came to me... smcfancontrol, Adium, VLC. Any disadvantage to doing this? How does fragmentation work in Mac? (I know that the HD "takes care of itself," but how well? Given that I'm throwing it small files here and huge ones later...)
In my experience it has been fairly well. Not ideal maybe, but pretty well in general. In other words I haven't bothered defragging it myself, but I do tend to wipe about once every couple of years due to OS upgrades, or installing Linux, or whatever.

Can't tackle the Adium question anymore sorry. I am on PSI now as I use Jabber.

The CD/DVD drive does tend to be the loudest portion of the laptop yes. Because it is the largest moving part, as well as dealing with unbalanced loads on a spindle design, it isn't to quiet, I rarely keep a CD in there myself. Not only does it create noise, but drains battery life as well.

SMC? Not familiar with the acronym I don't think. Or just having a mind blank, something like that.

Seablade
post #10 of 16
I don't know the answer to number one.

Number two: it does not matter how your programmes are installed. It shouldn't matter on Windows either. Both HFS+ and NTFS defrag on the fly.

Three: Windows and OS X use completely different anti aliasing algorithms. The Philosophy on the Windows side of things is to hammer the glyphs into a grid to make them as crisp and clear as possible. This results in unrealistic and generally ugly text that is only marginally more legible than OS X. OS X's philosophy comes from the Mac's history as a machine for publishing and design. Glyphs are rendered as accurately as possible to keep them in line with the font designer's intentions. However, since fonts aren't designed with a pixel grid in mind the rendering is considered fuzzy to many people. There are limited controls for font rendering in System Preferences>Appearance which allows you to set the level of anti aliasing—you'll have to restart your programmes after changing the settings to see a difference—but for the most part you'll probably want to leave it on Automatic.

Four: In System Preferences>Accounts, select your account, click Login Items, and if SMC isn't listed there drag it into the window or add it by clicking the + at the bottom.

Five: Super Drives are loud. I have an almost four year old PowerBook and it has a loud optical drive too.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies, everyone. Appreciate the insight into texts as well, kakaze.

seablade: SMC is the fan control... for whatever reason, unchecking and then rechecking "Load after login" made it load after login.

As for Adium -- looks like I'll either have to leave things as always idle or will come back from idle each time I touch the keyboard.

Loud optical drive: it's not loud when reading; it's loud during startup (turning on the machine or inserting/removing a disk). Louder than both my friends' MBPs.

I'll let everyone know if there are more questions... *groan*
post #12 of 16
Quote:

seablade: SMC is the fan control... for whatever reason, unchecking and then rechecking "Load after login" made it load after login.
Yea... lack of sleep apparently sets in. I should have known that one.

Quote:

Loud optical drive: it's not loud when reading; it's loud during startup (turning on the machine or inserting/removing a disk). Louder than both my friends' MBPs.
Standard fair actually. When first starting the computer, or inserting the disc, it spins up to full speed in order to try to search, read and identify the data as quickly as possible. Once it has done that, it slows down to whatever speed is required, which isn't all that often full speed.

Seablade
post #13 of 16
Hey, I just wanted to drop by and say that only newer versions of MATLAB work on the new Intel processors (as well as in Vista). I think version 7.4 gets the job done. Your new machine should be one mean number-cruncher and Pro/E monster. I'm sure you'll enjoy the battery life as well. My friend is reporting 4.5 - 5 hrs on his new MBPro.
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Haven't gotten my hands on MATLAB 7.4 yet -- and I may not install Pro/E (i.e. parallels) at all given how well this works thus far.

I'll see what happens, but I'm enjoy this machine quite a bit.

4.5 hours on battery, eh? I had my screen at more or less full brightness two days ago (and was installing stuff and wi-fi was on), and got no more than 4 hours, but I was running most functions under some load for the entire duration. I might be able to squeak out two DVDs if I'm careful.
post #15 of 16
Heh keep in mind that DVDs will be the largest drain on your battery. The DVD player is a huge energy drain in the grand scheme of things, and is one of the few moving parts on your laptop, requiring the energy for the motor.

Playing videos off the HD will be less of one though.

All that being said, I haven't timed my battery lately. I doubt I get 4 hours anymore, but my MBP is also a bit older, would be interesting to see.

Seablade
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
I may give it a shot when I'm back at school... but certainly four hours wasn't shabby given the settings I was using and what I was doing.

(I hadn't realized a DVD player used that much energy -- oops!)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Apple Notebooks
NotebookForums.com › Forums › Notebook Manufacturers › Apple Forums › Apple Notebooks › Serious questions about switching to Mac