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Smash Bros. Brawl !!! - Page 3

post #41 of 59
4/14/08 at 2:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarqWang View Post
Arch, when the ne SF comes out you and me are SO going to be fighting online.
Old SF2 is out we can get on that in the meantime....
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post #42 of 59
4/14/08 at 3:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightVampire View Post
Now I admit I should have listed Marth instead of Ganondorf. I was a bit rushed and not thinking it over quite as well. But you obviously havent seen many tournies either if you think Ganon is only mid tier. Players do some horrendous things with him with only wave dashes and his meteor smash. (1 move wonder tourneyfags).

I believe tier systems are totally nerfed anyway. It can be VASTLY influenced by the number of people playing a certain character. I could get a bunch of people to play Kirby in a tournament and he could turn out as the top tier simply because enough Kirby players won. I doubt you'd ever believe hes a top character though, despite the obviously right tournament results.

Melee isnt that balanced. Fox and Falco's meteor smashes have a little bit of "hang time" to them which makes them easier to use than other characters. Marth and Roy have a huge ass arc to their attacks that can make edge hogging easier.

Individual skill of course comes into play and I dont admit to being an insane high tourney level player. I'm fairly average I guess. I can beat most players I come across, but mid to high level tournament players and these two friends of mine who actually use everything a character has can beat me.

I dont play in tournaments too often because I CANT wave dash. Every decent tourney player I've seen wave dashes CONSTANTLY. I've been around enough Melee tournaments to know that. I have not been to a Brawl tournament yet but I plan on trying to find one soon enough just to have some fun.

Me and everyone of my friends who play brawl find very little trouble in getting around projectiles (except the ROB laser). Most matches I've seen on the internet also dont seem to have trouble getting around projectiles.

Ok, if Snake is such a great and broken character, then Pit is better. His arrows do a GREAT job of interrupting everything Snake does. I could stay back and spam Snake all day with nothing but Pit arrows and then 1 finisher and win every time since he interrupts all of Snakes moves. ZOMG PIT IZ BROK3N MORE TH@N SNAK3 SINCE HES THE ANTI SNAKE!!!

Well from what you say about the competitive brawl scene, me and my little group of friends would completely pwn everyone there since we have no trouble getting around what you say everyone spams simply by playing the game as the devs intended.
Brawl is young, give it time, both of you.
While I was never a tourney Melee player I was/am deep inside Norcals fight scene. Kizzo ran some very large (over 100+ regular like) NorCal tournies over the last couple years and me n him are way tight.

But I am a LONG Time Vet of NorCals fight scene (SVGL crew).
If brawl is ultimately broken bad like Tekken4 you might see a dip, but Brawl aint goin anywhere. Any space left at the top by disgruntled players will be replaced with new skools, it happens every time.
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post #43 of 59
4/16/08 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by archalien View Post
Brawl is young, give it time, both of you.
While I was never a tourney Melee player I was/am deep inside Norcals fight scene. Kizzo ran some very large (over 100+ regular like) NorCal tournies over the last couple years and me n him are way tight.

But I am a LONG Time Vet of NorCals fight scene (SVGL crew).
If brawl is ultimately broken bad like Tekken4 you might see a dip, but Brawl aint goin anywhere. Any space left at the top by disgruntled players will be replaced with new skools, it happens every time.
I've heard of kizzo


@twilight - I know my tourneys pretty well and I can assure you Ganon is only mid-tier. He can still win, but you have to work much harder with Ganon to win, and all of the top tiers pretty much rape him. Plus Ganon is really easy to gimp. Wavedashing is easy anyways, it took me like 10 minutes to learn how to do it and it's not even the most gamebreaking thing ever. Only noobs think wavedashing makes you win automatically. Pit does not counter snake, and his arrows are easier to get around then snakes stuff. Snake is the best character in the game, and he has invisible hitboxes on his best moves, lol. Snake has NO bad matchups at all. He can deal with everybody in the game. Pit isn't as good as everyone says he is, and if you force him to up b and hit him, he can't up b anymore. I use Snake because I don't have to try as hard to win with him then any other character. Oh, and you obviously don't know what a meteor smash is because falco and fox don't have meteor smashes. I also guarantee that you wouldn't win against some who actually knows how to camp. You and your friends are probably scrubs who don't know how to projectile camp properly.

This is the most recent official melee tier list:

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

This tierlist is made by the top pros in the community who know more than you or me, so Ganon is definitely mid. Ganon does not win tourneys, and you do not see him much because he has way too many weaknesses.

The tiers have changed again since this one, but Ganon has not gone anywhere. Marth has moved up, Falco down, Jigglypuff up, and Luigi up just to name a few.
EDIT: One more thing, in one of the earliest tier lists, Zelda used to be top tier because she used to win some tourneys. So if a LOT of kirby players started doing well in tourneys, then yes he would move up the tier list.
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post #44 of 59
4/16/08 at 9:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro_dragun View Post
I've heard of kizzo


@twilight - I know my tourneys pretty well and I can assure you Ganon is only mid-tier. He can still win, but you have to work much harder with Ganon to win, and all of the top tiers pretty much rape him. Plus Ganon is really easy to gimp. Wavedashing is easy anyways, it took me like 10 minutes to learn how to do it and it's not even the most gamebreaking thing ever. Only noobs think wavedashing makes you win automatically. Pit does not counter snake, and his arrows are easier to get around then snakes stuff. Snake is the best character in the game, and he has invisible hitboxes on his best moves, lol. Snake has NO bad matchups at all. He can deal with everybody in the game. Pit isn't as good as everyone says he is, and if you force him to up b and hit him, he can't up b anymore. I use Snake because I don't have to try as hard to win with him then any other character. Oh, and you obviously don't know what a meteor smash is because falco and fox don't have meteor smashes. I also guarantee that you wouldn't win against some who actually knows how to camp. You and your friends are probably scrubs who don't know how to projectile camp properly.

This is the most recent official tier list:

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

This tierlist is made by the top pros in the community who know more than you or me, so Ganon is definitely mid. Ganon does not win tourneys, and you do not see him much because he has way too many weaknesses.

The tiers have changed again since this one, but Ganon has not gone anywhere. Marth has moved up, Falco down, Jigglypuff up, and Luigi up just to name a few.


Yeah me n Kizzo FTW haha
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post #45 of 59
4/17/08 at 1:00pm
where is lucas on that chart?
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post #46 of 59
4/17/08 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by compujoe View Post
where is lucas on that chart?
Tha's a melee tier list, not brawl. There is no official brawl tier list yet.
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post #47 of 59
4/18/08 at 12:23am
pyro is right, brawl is just too ... easy


they took out everything that made melee great, ( i admit i play in tournaments) but the one thing that brawl has is that is a lot of fun to play with 4 people (just to have a good time, not to compete) otherwise, its melee for me
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post #48 of 59
4/18/08 at 12:42am
Ya know, I admit to never playing or watching tournaments, but I am glad apparently my perceptions of most of the characters I played were not to far off. It does surprise me a bit that Sheik and Zelda got split, but on the other hand, I gotta admit to ALWAYS playing as Sheik for the reason of Sheik being freakin awesome

/me loves speed

Heh Yoshi... one of the characters I want so bad to be good, but never seems to be. Just to slow, and not all that strong.

Roy and Marth sucked to fight against though in my experience.

Seablade
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post #49 of 59
4/18/08 at 1:04am
ive seen some really good yoshis... in both melee and brawl


in melee, i play fox, capt. falcon and luigi

in brawl, luigi, marth, and pikachu (pikachu got insanely good in brawl)
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post #50 of 59
4/18/08 at 1:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro_dragun View Post
I've heard of kizzo


@twilight - I know my tourneys pretty well and I can assure you Ganon is only mid-tier. He can still win, but you have to work much harder with Ganon to win, and all of the top tiers pretty much rape him. Plus Ganon is really easy to gimp. Wavedashing is easy anyways, it took me like 10 minutes to learn how to do it and it's not even the most gamebreaking thing ever. Only noobs think wavedashing makes you win automatically. Pit does not counter snake, and his arrows are easier to get around then snakes stuff. Snake is the best character in the game, and he has invisible hitboxes on his best moves, lol. Snake has NO bad matchups at all. He can deal with everybody in the game. Pit isn't as good as everyone says he is, and if you force him to up b and hit him, he can't up b anymore. I use Snake because I don't have to try as hard to win with him then any other character. Oh, and you obviously don't know what a meteor smash is because falco and fox don't have meteor smashes. I also guarantee that you wouldn't win against some who actually knows how to camp. You and your friends are probably scrubs who don't know how to projectile camp properly.

This is the most recent official melee tier list:

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

This tierlist is made by the top pros in the community who know more than you or me, so Ganon is definitely mid. Ganon does not win tourneys, and you do not see him much because he has way too many weaknesses.

The tiers have changed again since this one, but Ganon has not gone anywhere. Marth has moved up, Falco down, Jigglypuff up, and Luigi up just to name a few.
EDIT: One more thing, in one of the earliest tier lists, Zelda used to be top tier because she used to win some tourneys. So if a LOT of kirby players started doing well in tourneys, then yes he would move up the tier list.
I dont quite have the reflexes to get the motion for wave dashing down fast enough.

I never said wavedashing makes you win automatically. Tell me exactly where I said that. I just said I see tourny players do it all the time. Its a complete necessity to know it though. Every remotely good player will say that. I find it awful that a glitch is required to play a game.

The hit boxes on snakes mines arent invisible. You can still see the mines on the ground. Look closer. He has some of the easiest to dodge range attacks in the game. You can just charge through his grenades and wont take the explosion damage and then get in his face and smack him around. Or you can catch grenades and throw them right back at him (I love that). In 1v1 you have to be completely retarded to get hit by the homing missile. Jumping over his mines works all the time. Once in melee snake is at a disadvantage to faster characters. His moves do very impressive damage, but they're pretty slow. And except for his "snakedash" glitch, its fairly hard for him to escape a determined melee fighter because of his small and slow jumps and slow-ish speed.

Fox and Falco dont have meteor smashes?! Or are you just being picky because I'm not using the term "spike" instead? Forgive my classic lingo from back on the N64 when all meteors and spikes were exactly the same thing.

Me and my friends are scrubs? We dont know how to spam a friggin button? For starters, thats pretty much all one of my friends does. Run and projectile spam, only tactic. Hes really difficult to hit, but we make it around almost every range attack thrown at us. All of us are capable of spamming projectiles, dodging, and making opportunity attacks just as well as those people in the SoCal tournaments that were mentioned in here (saw a bunch of them on youtube). But we can also get around all that and force the opponent into melee and then keep them in there. If they get out and go back into a range spam, they cant inflict much damage on us (if any) and we again force the opponent back into melee if they want to make a kill.

I'm just going to shut the hell up on the tier list. I should have learned long ago that arguing with someone who likes tier lists is like insulting their religious beliefs.
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post #51 of 59
4/18/08 at 1:58am
God you ALL ARE NERDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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post #52 of 59
4/18/08 at 2:37am
Thank you

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post #53 of 59
4/18/08 at 6:01am
Twighlight: There is a difference between projectile camping and spamming. Spamming doesn't work that well on someone who is good. Camping smartly works. Camping is more then just projectile spamming anyways.

I wasn't talking about mines, I know those don't have invisible hitboxes. I don't even get that many kills using mines, I just use mines to control the stage.

This is what I was talking about, if these aren't invisible hitboxes then I don't know what is :

f-tilt


u-tilt


I get 80% of my kills using those 2 moves. Most of the other 20% is from bair or tricking people into rolling into my fsmash.

Oh and jab, f-tilt, and u-tilt all come out quick, so snake has no problems with going head to head with people in my experience. The only time I ever use his slow fsmash is when I think somebody is gonna roll towards me or behind me.


EDIT: Oh and I'm not purposely trying to be a complete ass to you twighlight, it's just that from what you say, I am pretty much sure you don't know a whole lot about the tournament scene, plus I'm still pissed that brawl sucks. I am still gonna stand by my opinion that snake is the best character in the game and has no bad matchups though.
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post #54 of 59
4/18/08 at 2:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro_dragun View Post
Twighlight: There is a difference between projectile camping and spamming. Spamming doesn't work that well on someone who is good. Camping smartly works. Camping is more then just projectile spamming anyways.

I wasn't talking about mines, I know those don't have invisible hitboxes. I don't even get that many kills using mines, I just use mines to control the stage.

This is what I was talking about, if these aren't invisible hitboxes then I don't know what is :

f-tilt


u-tilt


I get 80% of my kills using those 2 moves. Most of the other 20% is from bair or tricking people into rolling into my fsmash.

Oh and jab, f-tilt, and u-tilt all come out quick, so snake has no problems with going head to head with people in my experience. The only time I ever use his slow fsmash is when I think somebody is gonna roll towards me or behind me.


EDIT: Oh and I'm not purposely trying to be a complete ass to you twighlight, it's just that from what you say, I am pretty much sure you don't know a whole lot about the tournament scene, plus I'm still pissed that brawl sucks. I am still gonna stand by my opinion that snake is the best character in the game and has no bad matchups though.
pwned
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post #55 of 59
4/18/08 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro_dragun View Post
Twighlight: There is a difference between projectile camping and spamming. Spamming doesn't work that well on someone who is good. Camping smartly works. Camping is more then just projectile spamming anyways.

I wasn't talking about mines, I know those don't have invisible hitboxes. I don't even get that many kills using mines, I just use mines to control the stage.

This is what I was talking about, if these aren't invisible hitboxes then I don't know what is :

f-tilt


u-tilt


I get 80% of my kills using those 2 moves. Most of the other 20% is from bair or tricking people into rolling into my fsmash.

Oh and jab, f-tilt, and u-tilt all come out quick, so snake has no problems with going head to head with people in my experience. The only time I ever use his slow fsmash is when I think somebody is gonna roll towards me or behind me.


EDIT: Oh and I'm not purposely trying to be a complete ass to you twighlight, it's just that from what you say, I am pretty much sure you don't know a whole lot about the tournament scene, plus I'm still pissed that brawl sucks. I am still gonna stand by my opinion that snake is the best character in the game and has no bad matchups though.
Oh thats what you were talking about with invisible hit boxes. Yea thats kinda weird. Love the comments on the pics btw

Camping and spamming projectiles arent really too different in my mind though. They involve basically the same thing. Trying to control a small area of the stage, throwing range attacks out there and hitting people who get close to you, followed by repositioning yourself and doing it again.

I'm sorry, but I just dont find it difficult to battle Snake. Hes a good character, no doubts about that at all, and I do like him. Its just that in my admittedly limited brawl experience (playing the game almost daily with my brother, once or twice a week with my friends, and one tournament we organized at college) I have had no trouble fighting against Snake. Most of my friends havent either. Maybe we're just weird or something.

I'm not trying to be an ass either, if it came off that way I apologize, I'm just relating the experiences I've had with melee and brawl and my personal opinions.
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post #56 of 59
4/18/08 at 7:17pm
Thread Starter 
On a further note, wave dashing is all flash.
While every top player may use it, Im sure if your eliminated its usage from Melee then everyone prolly doesnt shuffle much in the grand scheme of player rankings.....
Furthermore, given the top player w/o it, vs the number 5 player w/ it, Im willing to bet top player still wins.
jmho
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post #57 of 59
4/23/08 at 1:14am
I use Snake, and how I get beaten is from people countering me. If the use a quick role when I am in full A combo, if they do it right they can have a smash A hit on me. Snake is very good. But I still think Marth is the cheapest character.
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post #58 of 59
4/23/08 at 9:47pm
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...ash-Bros-Brawl
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post #59 of 59
4/24/08 at 1:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarqWang View Post
I love those reviews!
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