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Letter to Hewlett Packard

post #1 of 12
4/18/08 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
I sent this letter to HP today. We have to stand up for our rights.

To whom it may concern:

I purchased an HP laptop recently on purpose, knowing it did not have internal recording features. I wanted to see how HP would work with me to rectify this situation. I am an avid blogger and musician, recreationally. I am thinking about quitting my job and blogging full-time. Why, you may ask?

Manufacturing and distributing products to consumers that are currently restricted in features without warning is unethical. Specifically, using a soundcard that has the capability of internal recording, and intentionally disabling the feature because certain individuals use your "waveout mix" setting for illegal reasons, is frankly, absurd. Moreover, misinforming or having your technical support team "keep quiet" about these issues will no-doubtingly have an adverse effect on your company image with the right voice.

I documented and saved two online chat sessions with an HP "technical support" agent, which was a complete waste of our time. I told them that the "waveout-mix" option was missing in my "recording" option window. One rep suggested uninstalling the souncard driver, and downloading and installing the driver again. The other rep said I should restore my computer to the earliest restore point possible. Then he said I would most likely have to take it to the retail store where I had purchased and have them mail it to the manufacturer. Please train your support techs.

I defend "fair use" and support the EFF, and yet I am essentially paying for P2P thieves' actions.

Now, if Conexant (your soundcard manufacturer) produced soundcards that did not have the "waveout mix" option, as unfortunate as that may be, it would be much more tolerable. Purposely disabling a feature because of the RIAA is a horrible business move, and a lot of people know that HP has done this (I am making it my job to inform all the people who are law-abiding citizens that utilize this feature legally, and anyone who will listen, and tell them what you have done). I have no economic restraints, and a lot of time on my hands. Additionally, I have eight days left to return this laptop, and purchase a Dell, which now has stereo-mix features incorporated once again in their computers.

Help keep this country free, as we as a nation are failing to grasp the fundamentals of freedom. Do your part, and provide Conexant updates.
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post #2 of 12
4/18/08 at 11:20pm
Sorry, I don't see any trampled rights here. If the notebook model in question, is not advertised as having that feature, then buying that laptop, just to kvetch about it not doing what it was not advertised to do is pretty pointless.

Although I am all for indiviudal's having freedom of choice to do right...or wrong, this has NOTHING to do with any "freedom" that I can discern. HP may fear that they may in some way be held culpable if this equipment is used for illeagal activity. They may be right...they may be over-reacting, I can see room to argue with that, but to somehow equate this with their doing some kind of "wrong" to customers? That is absurd. There have been, and continue to be all sorts of restrictions on technological devices for a myriad of reasons...some very sensible, some unarguably, over the top.

You did NOT buy a Conexant sound card...you bought a notebook computer which utilizes a Conexant sound card. Every major manufacurer enables/disables features of parts that they purchase for use in their systems. Certainly, one is perfectly free to eschew buying their products, if one dislikes how they configure them...and, if enough folks have an issue, it is likely that the manufacturer may decide that was a poor business decision.

However, this is not a "freedom" issue, nor an "ethics" issue. Unless HP purported this notebook to do something that it was actually configured not to do, then there is nothing wrong, or unethical here.
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post #3 of 12
4/19/08 at 6:37am
Thread Starter 
If HP misinforms their staff (technical support representatives) by having them suggest system restores that go back as far as the laptop was new, and re-installing drivers that are exactly the same for this problem, then "yes", this is an issue in which they are responsible for inadequate training and misrepresentation of their product through their technical support staff, and ultimately their company.

However, if Hewlett Packard feels the need to go to great lengths to hide a policy incorporated into their design specifications, then they are truly misrepresenting themselves as a company, thus ruining their reputation as a legitimate manufacturer with intelligent computer users.

However, if they choose to inform their staff of this altered programming ramification, and their staff is playing dumb about it, then this also falls into a huge negligence category.

Pick your battles? Sounds like one battle, with one solution.
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post #4 of 12
4/19/08 at 9:28am
I hear you, but honestly, I think that is a bit of a reach. Sure, as per almost every company out there, tech support is sketchy at best, and as is often the case, by no means are all of the tech support people all that knowledgeable of each product. I can understand being irritated by that, but it hardly qualifies as misrepresentation. "Negligence"? I must surmise that you have little knowledge of most tech support staff, or the level of their expertise? You are hardly talking to HP "engineers" when you call tech support...they do the best they can, and some are more competent than others, but they are hardly the authoritative "word" on HP products...

Again though, it is this "hiding a policy incorporated into their design specifications" stuff that is just plain incorrect. You are assuming a feature, or function, that HP never claimed that this product did!

Where does HP claim that their laptops feature internal recording features? I certainly could not find this anywhere on their site...that you assume this capability, based on the fact that the included sound chip "can" do this, thus a given that it therefore "should" do so... or that this implies that for some reason, you have the "right" to this feature, simply is flawed logic.

Would you be happier if HP put no sound chip in their notebook computers at all?

Without a doubt, I am sure that HP, or any other manufacturer, will not go out of their way to tell you what features they have decided to omit from a product, but I see nothing that leads to the conclusion that they are "hiding" anything either. Your laptop was NOT designed, nor marketed as a high-end audio machine...it does function well as what it IS marketed for...

It would appear that you are picking a "battle" over a non-existant issue, or at least, with the wrong entity. If it is the recording industry that you have a beef with, as many do, fine and dandy, but that HP might wish to avoid being involved in any prduct-missuse litigation, should hardly come as a shocker.
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post #5 of 12
4/21/08 at 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC2 View Post
Your laptop was NOT designed, nor marketed as a high-end audio machine...it does function well as what it IS marketed for...

This notebook is a special edition entertainment series model. I have used this feature since windows 95, including 98, 2000, Me, and XP. All the computers with their OS's have been able to record internal sounds...until now.

The manufacturer (HP) makes a decision whether or not to include a feature specific function. I have 6 days left to return this computer, and purchase something else.

I always thought Macs were much better for graphics and audio. Now, I will be forced to learn a new type of computer and OS for one feature. Sad, isn't it. I might try changing 1's and 0's first, but Conexant has two different folders with code in both entitled Hermosa, and Venice. (the first soundcard I've seen with two main setup folders). Interesting...
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post #6 of 12
4/21/08 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midimykeys View Post



This notebook is a special edition entertainment series model. I have used this feature since windows 95, including 98, 2000, Me, and XP. All the computers with their OS's have been able to record internal sounds...until now.

The manufacturer (HP) makes a decision whether or not to include a feature specific function. I have 6 days left to return this computer, and purchase something else.

I always thought Macs were much better for graphics and audio. Now, I will be forced to learn a new type of computer and OS for one feature. Sad, isn't it. I might try changing 1's and 0's first, but Conexant has two different folders with code in both entitled Hermosa, and Venice. (the first soundcard I've seen with two main setup folders). Interesting...
As I previously posted "Your laptop was NOT designed, nor marketed as a high-end audio machine..." that still stands as is..."entertainment" stands for playing music, movies\videos and viewing photos, and it is marketed as that...not for it's recording capabilities.

Actually, I DO understand returning your notebook for something else...makes perfect sense, in fact, the only question would be "why did you wait until the last minute?"

If this was a feature that concerned me, my wrath would not be for HP, but rather the RIAA, who after all is the driving force behind this...and possibly, just possibly, a little bit also for all those who figure that they have some god-given right to freely access other folk's intellectual property without paying reasonable compensation, eh?

It is not the first, nor the last time that technology was forced back a step over "intellect6ual property" issues...hopefully, there will be a sensible compromise, as has happened in other recording mediums...
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post #7 of 12
4/22/08 at 3:26am
Thread Starter 
interesting
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post #8 of 12
4/22/08 at 4:57pm
x
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post #9 of 12
4/23/08 at 9:37am
Thread Starter 
i c i c
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post #10 of 12
4/23/08 at 10:34am
ahem ... this thread is getting a bit "personal" (yes i m using quotes here).

Please keep it the framework of a healthy discussion, where each poster is welcome to her/his opinions - and not attacking posters' writing/answering style

cheers ...
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post #11 of 12
4/23/08 at 11:24am
Thread Starter 
it would be nice to hear from someone else lol
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post #12 of 12
4/27/08 at 10:35pm
Maybe you can find a work around posted online to enable the feature. either a bios update, or perhaps a reg hack or something. i dunno, and yeah its a long shot, but worth a try i think. HP makes good machines and im happy with mine. two family members bought HPs afer me and they are good machines too. see if you can find a work around and if not, find a machine that does what you want and return the HP and buy a diff machine.

I think HP is doing what they think is safe. they didnt advertise it would do that and it sucks that it doesnt. you would probably get better results if you told them it was a sorely missed feature and that you were buying a different brand and returning theirs due to the missing feature. you would do well to also tell them that when they start re enabling such features youd be willing to consider their products in teh future but not until then.

You probably arent the only one to notice this, and enough voices heard will change their mind. the really ticked off letters just get round filed. so do threats.

Not dissing what you had to say, i totally understand. you are sorely disappointed and got ZERO help from their techs when you tried to remedy. ive been there with a hard drive issue and my issue was a lot more painful. i got lied to for about four weeks and HAD to threaten legal issue via the state atty general on ground of a lawsuit about failing to honor warranty issues and business torts committed against customers. my issue got pretty nasty. it sounds like your issue was just plain them not knowing and not bothering to do any serious fact-checking. Laziness is not a good thing in tech support.

with that said, look for a work around and if you dont find one return it and get a diff brand. good luck! if you DO find a work around, please post it here so we all know about it too. thanks in advance!

ev
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