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Just bought XPS M1530 - XP or Vista?? - Page 2

post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
It sounds like your talking about XP's online licensing validation, not anything particular to OEM discs. There's no way that Dell burns unique installation discs based on the hardware config of each system they ship. These discs are mass produced by the thousands. So it might be possible for them to restrict the OEM discs to their particular brand of computer (or even a specific model), but not to individual HW configs. The authentication you're talking about is a Windows XP thing, not an OEM thing. Now, having said that, I've never actually had a problem with the authentication. I'll be curious to see how it goes. If I don't have an Internet connection on my laptop, there's no way to authenticate, and an Internet connection is not a requirement for XP But even if I have to revalidate, it shouldn't be a problem because I won't be installing on multiple systems - just a different system.
post #22 of 30
Yes, that is Microsoft's online licensing validation.... Windows Genuine Advantage. To authenticate without an internet connection, they provide a phone number that you can call and receive a validation code over the phone.

Microsoft will *NOT* provide you a validation code if you try to install an OEM license on a different system... the OEM license means that the computer that the OEM license came with is the one that it must stay on.

As I mentioned before, this is more of a restriction in licensing terms than a restriction in the software. And as I mentioned before, there are ways around this... it's actually very simple if you just look for the answer.
post #23 of 30
Thread Starter 
I don't doubt that you believe this, but it absolutely cannot be. The problem here is that there's no way to define "the one machine" that software must stay on. For example, what if I went out and bought a new hard drive for my laptop? Surely I don't have to buy a new copy of Windows. What if I also bought a new graphics card? There is still no way that the license could possibly prevent you from reinstalling (I know it might detect the change and make you call the number, but my point is that there's no legal justification for Microsoft refusing to reactivate your license based solely on you changing hardware). And what if the motherboard died and I had that replaced too? And replaced my CD drive with a Blue Ray drive? You see where this is going. How do you draw the line between upgrading your current machine and buying a new one? Although I personally think the online licensing validation is a huge hassle, I have to admit that it is legally justifiable SOLELY to prevent reinstalling one copy of Windows on multiple machines. However, there is absolutely no legal justification for Microsoft selling software with the condition that it cannot be installed on updated HW configurations, as long as each copy is only installed on one machine at a time.

It might also be legally justifiable for an OEM license to restrict use to the particular brand (or possible specific model) of computer that you got the OEM software with. I guess the legal theory here would be that you're (presumably) paying some sort of discount relative to the retail price in exchange for buying it bundled with the computer. But for various reasons, I think such a contractual restriction could face legal challenges. For one thing, users who pay for OEM software (and we all do - Dell isn't giving it away, the cost is included in the total price) have absolutely no choice - it is forced upon us. So from an anti-trust and fair trade practice perspective, it is hard to justify how this is permissible unless you assume that the user can recoup the cost by selling the software or using it on a different machine. But this argument aside, it is a rather large step further for an OEM license to say that the software becomes utterly useless if you upgrade your hardware (which, as I've already explained, is practically indistinguishable from buying a whole new system).
post #24 of 30
Fighting piracy is a matter of trying to eliminate the masses from being able to easily use a pirated copy of the software... there's no full-proof method to both keep pirated copies unusable and keep your users sane when trying to use the software that they legitimately paid for.

As mentioned above, Windows monitors the serial numbers of certain system components, and if enough change, it triggers Windows to revalidate. Replacing a single component usually won't do it (graphics card, processor). Even if it triggers, you should just be able to activate over the internet unless it's been attempted too many times, in which case you may need to call Microsoft.

Calling Microsoft isn't a bad thing though (assuming you actually have a license and you're not reading it off a text document you found on the internet). It's a matter of understanding the terms of the license... if you tell them you're trying to install Vista (or XP) on another system, then no, you won't get a validation code. On the other hand, if you've had most of your system components replaced due to physical damage or just because you wanted to upgrade your motherboard, CPU and graphics card all at the same time... as long as you're still using it on one machine they shouldn't have a problem activating it. Trying to get the same product key activated many times over a short period is sure to send up red flags though.

I don't support (well, encourage) piracy... I'm just saying if you have a license key sticker sitting in front of you, and it's not a key you found on a search engine or generated by a key-gen, then you shouldn't be worried about needing to make a 2 minute phone call to Microsoft to activate the license you've already paid for anyway.

...all this said referring to home use though. When it comes to business use, it's best to have a license for every machine... it's just not worth the fines. All it takes is a disgruntled employee visiting http://www.siia.net and filing a report to get audited, and the fines for piracy definitely aren't worth the risk. But that's a little off-topic...
post #25 of 30
Dual Boot!!!
post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by burghblast View Post
I don't doubt that you believe this, but it absolutely cannot be. The problem here is that there's no way to define "the one machine" that software must stay on. For example, what if I went out and bought a new hard drive for my laptop? Surely I don't have to buy a new copy of Windows.
The OEM license allows for changes to hardware through upgrades. The OEM license does NOT allow you to transfer WinXP to another system.

And as I have said before, this is a licensing policy limitation, not a technical limitation. From a technology perspective, there is no way to tell whether WinXP is re-installed onto the same computer with a different motherboard, CPU, etc, or if it is an entirely new machine.
post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent1146 View Post
The OEM license allows for changes to hardware through upgrades. The OEM license does NOT allow you to transfer WinXP to another system.

And as I have said before, this is a licensing policy limitation, not a technical limitation. From a technology perspective, there is no way to tell whether WinXP is re-installed onto the same computer with a different motherboard, CPU, etc, or if it is an entirely new machine.
Exactly. That's my point. There is no difference between transferring "to a new system" and reinstalling on a "upgraded system" because there's no way to distinguish between the two. So even if a licensing agreement is worded such a fashion, it is completely unenforceable.
post #28 of 30
How about Windows Workstation 2008? Do a google search. There are plenty of guides that document the relatively easy process of taking a 60 day trial of Windows Server 2008 (available as a download form MS) and making a few configuration changes to make it the best desktop OS you've ever used. I'm running it on a dell XPS M140 (yes, an M140) and it's rock solid. It's a better Vista that Vista could ever be, and allegedly 20% faster that Vista.

The only caveat is that you'd need to rebuild every 8 months (not a bad idea anyway) because the trial can only be "reset" three times (legally) for 240 days total...unless of course you buy a real copy of server. (Technet would be your friend here.)

It's a seriously nice desktop OS. Out of the box it's optimized for servers, but the various guides walk you through the simple steps of optimizing it for desktop use.
post #29 of 30
Thread Starter 
Appreciate the Workstation 2008 hint. I've been out of the game for about 3 years, and I had not even heard of it (I've been in law school, after several years as a computer engineer). I'm going to look into that!
post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by burghblast View Post
Appreciate the Workstation 2008 hint. I've been out of the game for about 3 years, and I had not even heard of it (I've been in law school, after several years as a computer engineer). I'm going to look into that!
Well, with your background there's nothing in the process that should frighten you in the least. Here's a link to a very nice PDF detailing the steps, including screen shots.

http://www.entropyinitiative.com/win...l_22032008.zip

It mostly involves installing some addtional features not installed by default (Desktop Experience for example) and enabling some services that aren't automaticallyenabled in a server install. As far as drivers, all of the Vista drivers seem to work fine in Server...which of course is really just Vista on steroids.

I've yet to run into anything that won't run on the OS, though I've not tried any games. (Obviously my old M140 isn't a gaming rig.) For those who have complained anout the DRM issues in Vista, apparently "Windows Workstation 2008" isn't hobbled by such things.

Give it a go if you're the tinkering type. The worst that happens is that you just go back to something else. I won't be though.
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