Please help! I think I fried something! - Page 2

Sorry to hear that....

Well, how ambitious are you?


You can go to this forum for a link to the service manual
http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=10446

and then look at page 48, where you will see the CMOS battery. I don't know if this is your issue or not....I had an almost identical situation just this week and swapping the CPU solved it.

Before you start yanking it apart....have you tried connecting this to an external monitor? Get anything?

Can you tell if the harddrive spins up?

Any bios beep?

One other thing....remove the power cord and the battery, then hold the power button for 10 seconds. Now, put the power cord back in (not battary). Try the power button now.

it's the round battery about the size of a nickel---can't miss it.

Looks like the kind that is you wristwatch; however much bigger.

Hi there, your problem sounds almost exactly like mine, what did you do in the end??

Sorry about the long post, but hoping someone may have read thru the above
and have some answers. It also may give you some hints.

16-sept-04 Protac/Clevo 5600p Notebook computer SN - NC560P2D01523

User was watching ACDC Slide show - a regularly used application,
when the display went all black except for a slight horizontal
flicker pattern in the lower half of the screen.
Normal shut down would not work(power button 4 sec) - had to
remove batt and power to turn off.

On attempted restart, the following things occur-
Display, nothing
VGA output, nothing
CD, FDD & HDD spin up and perform their initial self test then nothing
(HDD keeps spinning, but heads do not move after initialisation.)
Batt and power indicators on bottom of screen come on as normal
Batt charges as normal, light goes green when charge complete
Four indicators(HDD, Num lock, Caps Lock, down lock) on top of keyboard
flash as normal, but then stay off
- Caps lock and num lock keys do not illuminate indicators
No response at all from keyboard.. ctrl-alt-del .etc
No BIOS startup beep or FDD/CD boot seek
USB and PS2 Power available
No fans operate - normal for startup
Unit powers down when power button pressed for 4 sec - normal

When unit is off, stand-alone cd player function works fine.
All buttons for track and play control work, and volume can be adjusted.

Remove HDD and try in another PC - HDD works fine.
Remove CPU and try in another PC - CPU works fine.
Systematically remove the following in order shown
and retest after each -
FDD, CD,HDD,Battery,Power, Keyboard, Modem, Lan connection,
HDD Converter board, Display Inverter, Display cable,RAM
No change of fault for any of the above.

Conclusion - fault must be on main board, or DC-DC board.
Tried to locate and repair fault on board.

On close inspection of main board, found the following caps
missing - as if they had been broken off - maybe even from new??
C521 (.47u 25v), C514 (.1u X_7R), C524 (.1u X_7R)
(Small SM Chips located near Memory sockets)
The solder pads on the board show that the chips were there at some
stage and have been broken off, leaving fragments behind.

These caps were across the supply +1.5vs rails of the MCH 845 Host Bus IC,
but there are still 9 more left on the board across the same rail,
so I doubt that the problem is caused by their abscence.

Having said that, a fault in that chip or its support circuitry
could cause the above problem???

Replaced them with new ones just to see if it would help - no change


No evidence of leaking or bulgy electrolytic caps.

Tested voltages at all supply rail links (N1 to N11)
all within operating limits.
- Indicates fault unlikely to be in DC-DC board

Tested fans operation with external PSU - OK
Checked supply rails to pins on BIOS chip - OK
Checked for data on BIOS bus pins - present unsure of content.

I've run out of ideas now, any suggestions.
I'm very confident the mb is the problem and hesitant to
spend the AU$850 on a new mb for a 2yr old machine.
Any suggestions anyone.

sounds like you've covered all the bases. Perhaps, conisder an upgrade using the Sager upgrade policy. It would cost the same as a motherboard replacement, but at least you would have a 5690 instead.

God this dratted thing has happened to me too...

I have had my 5660 for two years, and then pop screen goes black.

Exactly the same symptoms as you two. EXACTLY.

I'm in New Zealand so sending in my laptop was not an economically viable option at all.

But after carrying my laptop to a laptop specialist, having acquired the 5660 service manual (cheers bsmith), IT SUDDENLY STARTED UP!
BIOS BEEP!
BIOS POST!
WINDOWS START UP!
EVERYTHING!
windows said expected shutdown error due to ATI Radeon 9000 driver, caught in an infinite loop.

so yes, I took it home, and surely enough, when I tried to start it up.
NOTHING!
Sensing a loose connection on the MB, in my rage I started knocking the laptop in certain places.
SURE ENOUGH I GET IT TO START UP.
I managed to replace pretty much every driver, Radeon driver several times. Didn't update bios though. Before it died on me.

Now, through trial and error, I can get my laptop to work for about a week (turning off at night/starting up in morning) by ONE light tap. When my computer dies, I force shutdown with power button for 10secs. Unplug everything. Close the lid. And give it an ever so light BUT FIRM tap on my knee, right in the MIDDLE of the bottom of the laptop (halfway from each side, and halfway from the front/back). This works a charm, and I am currently posting this message on my Sager 5660 which hasn't screwed up for 3 days now.

I did a bit of research and the only component that is quite susceptible to shock damage is the HDD. But when the computer is off, the laptop HDD can take a considerable amount more shock than when operating (x10-100 more acceleration). SO I only ever give it the knock when its fully unpluged etc.

You may think this is all crude, but I have had this problem for about 3 months now. And it has not gone away. Since I got the service manual, I have taken this computer to pieces, every possibly piece, fully about 5 times now. All of my theories of hope crushed by no success. A laptop engineer in new zealand thought the power controls were the problem, so I disassembled everything, and took the DC/DC board to him, 2 hour drive away! He ran a few diagnostics on it, not too sure what - probably connection/voltage in-out testing, and he said there was nothing AT ALL wrong with the DC/DC board. I have done most of what mskerman has done as well in diagnostics. I am stumped.

But you guys should try my knock theory and see if that works. It will be interesting to see if it does. IF it does, my question is what would a knock do to correct something? Not that many moving parts on the mobo, other than the actual components.

I really hate this problem, I have never failed in fixing a computer, I have 5 computers starting with a P1 133Mhz, and I have had a lot of problems in the 12 years of computing, both software and hardware, but this takes the cake. I have no idea of a permanent fix, but i have my own temporary fix that works but brings a tear to my eye when my computer blanks out and I lose whatever I was working on.

With shipping costs, and the price for a new mobo/upgrade mobo, I could buy a new laptop in NZ or Australia.

Dunno what to do?

His issue is slightly different...the harddrive works when put in a different computer.

I have, on occassion, had harddrives that yield similar results and believe it or not, putting it in the deepfreeze for several hours has also been known to bring a stuck drive back to life -- temporarily (long enough to get the data off).

My hard drive works in my computer when I get my computer to start, I can guarantee that it works in another. I don't have a 2.5" adapter so I haven't tried it yet, but I have tried my other components, CPU in desktop, RAM in another laptop, and they function fine.

When this blackout happens to me. And I don't do anything, I can turn on, and off 10 times with the same effect.

The computer powers on.
Indicator lights flash, HDD starts spinning.
No bios post
No bios beep.
No display or external VGA
No futher activity from HDD or keyboard input.

BUT

Fans operate, and if left for while will come on stronger, and cycle as par usual.
CD Drive works fine.


BTW, in pulling the computer to pieces, the battery connection to the bios chip was disconnected, effectively clearing it. That did nothing to fix any symptoms, except windows needed a time change when I finally get it to work.

AND, I have backed up everything... but I don't think the problem lies with the hard drive, DO YOU THINK THE HDD GETTING STUCK SOMETIMES COULD CAUSE A PROBLEM LIKE THIS? Wouldn't the bios post or at least some VGA input work if the HDD got stuck?
I will look at finding a different 2.5" 9mm HDD to try in the computer (the one in my old laptop is not compatible-too old) but I think the problem resides in a faulty mobo - but for hopes sake I hope it isn't.

You know, I think I misread your post....have you tried hooking up to an external monitor? The cycling is interesting, since it indicates activity. I have an LCD in which the ballast blew and for all the world the system works but I just cannot see anything.

nup that didn't work, no VGA output. While the system starts up normally, or seems to, it doesn't get very far, not even to BIOS POST... which is bad.

funny thing is that somehow it can be cured by a tap...
What on earth could be cured by a slight knock...

On your stuck hard-drive theory. The Hard seems to start spinning fine, perhapsits the heads that get stuck.

I have noticed that if I have the system working perfectly through tap method, and then turn the computer off, and leave it off for 1.5-2 days, it will not be working at all unless I tap it again. Stuck hard drive heads being in same place too long?

This first happened to me when I was doing normal application work like tmh with internet browser and mskerman and slide show, I was playing soldat, a little 2D game, when my screen went black and normal shutdown didn't work, no input from keys etc... Would a stuck hard drive originate during a HDD semi-intensive task?

And even with stuck hard drive heads, that wouldn't stop the BIOS from posting would it?

What I really need to do is try another laptop HDD....

OKAY, I can confirm that the computer is more likely not to boot if it has been sitting still, shut down for long periods of time.

ALSO, that it is more likely to random blackout when the computer is not active, i.e. idling.

When the computer blacks out, fans go normally through idle cycle, and pressing my ear against the palm rest above the HDD a faint wirr can be heard the same as when the system is working fine, which says that the HDD is spinning, and I haven't got a loose bearing or anything that doesn't like spin when it has been still for a while.

When the computer blacks out, NO input at all, keyboard/mouse will do anything. And the screen goes a certain type of black. Not the normal black when backlight is still on, but the blacker black when you shut down your computer.

STILL STUMPED

Been away from the post for a while, but have read thru all since my last post. I do have a 2.5-3.5 HDD adaptor, and have tried it - works fine. Also, when the machine is powered on, the HDD can be heard initialising, the clicking sound is the heads swinging back and forth as the drive does its own self test.
From the comments made by Jimmy, I am more and more sure about the motherboard having cracked solder joints. This will more than likely cause the "bump fix" to work as the flexing causes the joints to come back together. Will try it on my machine tonight & see what happens.
Did anyone look for the missing capacitors mentioned in my last post??
How does one access the upgrade option from Australia??

This has happened to others since in other models of Sager,

Suggestions have arrised about CPU not being seated propertly, faulty cpu slots that degrade over time. For some, just a simple removing and replacing the cpu back in slot has done the trick, but for me, I have done so many times with the same problem. So maybe my slot is further degraded or something, so that before I start up it needs a slight bump?

I hope that cracked solder joint idea can be fixed, maybe the next time it starts stuffing up severely I will get a technicain to check it out, voltage probe or whatever, and find the broken connection when it is not working... I really don't know what im talking about...

LOL... i haven't had any problems at all for quite a while now, but i still give barely a touch on the bottom of the laptop before I start it up as a habit to stop the heartbreak of getting a "blackout boot"...

Got home & tried the bump, then the tap, then the bash to the bottom of the machine, all to no avail.. Have also reseated CPU many times, no change. Completely out of ideas!! Looks like I'll have to try a mobo replace/upgrade(any suggestions on the best place to buy) , or maybe just buy a whole new machine.

Guys, I think both of these are candidates for an RMA. If it were a desktop, I'd just work with known good parts and keep plugging away until it fixes, but that's not so simple with a notebook.

motheboard upgrade info can be found in this forum

http://notebookforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

i could buy a new laptop in new zealand for the - price of a new motherboard plus new cpu components +$US400 for shipping. And if I waited probably one alot more reliable than a 5690... with all the problems they are getting.

And then again, there is a large chance that it will not fix the problem, considering wbeck has had this problem, and replacing the mobo 3 times didn't fix it. So yea... BAH DAMNIT!!! I'm not under warranty, i wonder what would happen it they sent over the mobo, i can install it myself (flag the millions paid in shpping) and then it didn't work... :S

if i had a cracked solder joint somewhere, IS THERE ANY WAY FOR AN ELECTRICIAN TO FIND IT WITH THE SERVICE MANUAL? or attempt to fix it.

I am a broadcast service tech, and have examined the mobo in my machine quite closely and resoldered many poor looking joints. The problem is that there are so many poor looking joints on the mb that to inspect all of them closely and resolder all the worst ones would take hours.. - lots of $$ with still no guarentee of a fix. Also, when you are trying to resolder pins that are 0.3mm size, and 0.3mm apart on these tiny components, you run the risk of shorting, overheating, or damaging them and making things worse.

I have nothing to loose.. except time, so when I get another chance, I will open it up and look some more. Ideally, someone else out there has traced and fixed the same fault and will know where the fault is on the mb.

BTW, the poor initial solder work on the mb is most likely to be the cause of the fault, if Clevo had higher inspection standards, the mb in my machine would have never been used anyway.

When I initially purchased the machine, it had an intermittant mb fault from day one - prob from poor solder work!! I had the initial mb repaced under wty after only about 1 mth of use.

Perhaps there was a whole batch of these mb's that never went thru proper inspections.