Please help! I think I fried something! - Page 3

lol... lil update.

Getting a few more blackouts than usual. Yesterday, when it blacked out, I decided not to go safe and try something, I left the computer on, closed the lid and gave it the lightest most direct tap I could, opened the screen to rejoice! IT WAS WORKING! THE SCREEN WAS ON!

BUT

No HDD ticking LED, or any input from keyboard, or any new USB mouses added or anything, so I guess I will not be doing that again :S.

Just in reply to mskerman,
Instead of soldering every joint...

(because losing a minor connection probably wouldn't disable keyboard/ mouse and input and VGA output and HDD activity, but keep power running through CPU and RAM etc... it would most likely create a minor performance loss)

...Would it be possible, that when it blacks out, you turn it off, don't fix it with the tap, take it apart carefully, then run power through it while open carefully and probe for voltages etc... I know there is a schematic diagram of how the power runs through the computer to the various bridges etc in the detailed service manual for this model.

Maybe it would be possible to deduce the area of problem rather than soldering everything in one clean sweep?

Have already tried checking all rail voltages with unit apart, they all test fine, I suspect the fault is with one of the many data busses or chips connected to the data busses. These incidentally are the thinnest, most sensitive and hardest to work on. The voltages on these busses are all digital, it is possible to measure them, and even look at the waveforms on an oscilliscope, but knowing exactly what waveforms to expect goes far beyond the scope of the service manual and actually varies depending on the data the machine is working with at the time. It is actually quicker to resolder all the joints than to figure out what type of signal is supposed to be present and test it on each pin.

I would love to find someone out there with a 5600 with a dead screen or other non mb part who wants to ditch their machine and I could salvage the mb. It's just not worth spending all the $$ on a new mb.

OH WELL

GUESS I SHOULD PROB LOOK FOR A NEW MB...

C'est de la folie!

I wonder, I really do, If all this had anything to do with the the time I spilt a little bit of Fanta on my computer and never told anyone. It was only a little bit over the top left hand speaker pretty much. When it happened I turned the computer off and left it for 2 days, and didn't tell anyone :S When I came back, the computer worked perfectly but the keys were a bit sticky in that corner. I figured that the bateria in the air would eat away at it so I left it... And they did. Keyboard got better. However, when I started opening up the 5660 due to the blackout problem, I found all this fanta baterium residue that was kinda sticky, all through that corner, the cpu and heatsink are major things in that corner. It didn't bother me because there wasn't much, and I hadn't had any heat problems. But perhaps it is the cause of all this? How would I go about cleaning it??? Hopefully the damage isn't already done!!!

I spilt the fanta over a year ago now...

Well, seems like this is becoming a problem with the 56XXs.
I too have had the same exact problems in the last week.
Now I get BIOS post, start into XP, hard drive spins, display locks, HD stops, Fans go on High, and stay on as long as power is on.
Although, on one of my first lockups, Windows caught the error and and on the next reboot, said that the Video adapter could not perform a draw function and ceased operation.
I'm barely at 2 years with my 5660.
I asked Sager if I could by a new Mainboard and they said no. I spent 8hrs looking for a new Mboard with no luck.
I could however do the "upgrade" for $845.
I'm afraid that if I did, then the LCD fries, I would have a $845 paperwieght.
Now that I'm seeing this is a trend, I'm wondering if Sager should be on my replacement MFG'r list...
This really sucks......
I'm looking at the 4380 just to get away from the 56XX case that I have replace 4!!! Cracked LCD covers, but now what do I do???
Should Sager even be on the list????
Ughhh....

p.s. Just thought of another thing that happened before it totally died, the screen started flickering intermitently. It was like it was going from high to low brightness. This was happening a few days before the DEATH....
L8R

Blake

I can often get my laptop to work after these lockups

... and i often get the same message as you bwalker
Yea its that windows error report thingy, I checked it all out, went into the system log and worked out that it didn't really solve anything. The problem is not software, the Video adapter is having its power cut, and the HDD and CPU don't, so to Windows it seems that the Video card failed to complete a video process, but that is exactly what happened, the video card turned off.

When I tapped the machine while on, the last frozen image was displayed perfectly, probably meaning that my method is getting power through the VGA, but power is cut to all the busses, so all the information is lost, and I can't get it work without force shut down and rebooting...

2 years LOL!
These things are on a self destruct timer.

ANYONE WITH A 5660 bought around JAN 2003! You can expect your beloved to die any day now!!

Yup, exactly!!! It seems to be the Video.. And its imbeded in the Mboard!
I tried to use an external monitor one of the times before it crashed. All was fine and then phhhhckkk!!!! Locked up and my TV went black!!!
I wonder if this has anything to do with the EXTREME amount of heat that the 56XXs make???? I'll bet it does!!!! Solder can only be heat cycled sooo many times even with a GREAT solder job!!!!
Well, gonna have to think this Sager(Clevo) thing through.... Don't know if I trust their MFGing anymore.....
My Dell 7000 bought in 1999 is still working and its on the ORIGINAL Li-Ion battery.
My second Sager battery died last month.
This really sucks.....
Maybe we should start a poll???? Anybody thinking Class Action???

Blake

To Jimmy, re the Fanta. To clean the residue off, dismantle and remove ALL sources of power - main batts, cmos batt, power conn. The ideal solution is IPA ( Iso Propyl Alcohol) can be purchased from electronics shops in spray cans or containers and is commonly used as head cleaning solution. If not avail, use methylated spirits, it is not as pure as IPA, but certainly will leave less residue than fanta!!

Get cotton buds and wet with IPA and use to wipe residue off, be liberal with the cleaning solution and cotton buds. If fanta is really dried on, moisten with ipa and let the residue dissolve. ***If the copper tracks or solder joints look really corroded, be very careful as sometimes the slightest touch will break any remaining electrical path thru the corroded tracks. If this is the case maybe just hold board at an angle and rinse the affected area with IPA several times.***
The residue can affect the board in the following ways.
1. eventually becomes conductive and partially or fully shorts out adjacent tracks or pins. Fixed by leaning away residue
2. eventually corrodes thru the copper tracks or tin/lead solder causing breaks in the electrical paths. Fixed by cleaning away residue and replacing tracks with wires.
3. Your mb has multiple layers .. tracks on top, tracks on the bottom and several layers of tracks laminated inside the board. you will notice small holes, or solder spots all over the board, these are called vias, they link tracks on one layer to tracks on other layers. sometimes the residue if corrosive will run down the via holes and corrode away the connections between layers of the board. Once this occurs, it is almost impossible to fix as you cannot de-laminate the board to fix internal tracks.

PS. If there are any techs following,
Looking at the System block diagram from the service manual, I believe the fault lies with the "INTEL MCH 845-MP Brookdale 593 FCBGA" chip or one or more of the busses connected to it. The "INTEL ICH3 421 EBGA" must operate for the stand alone cd player to work.

Cheers mskerman, I will clean my boards ASAP, as soon as I find enough IPA (only got lil pharmaceutical 100% bottles atm)

Hopefully, the damage isn't already done...

But I think the fact that there are others with similar laptops from similar times that have the SAME symptoms and haven't had fanta spilt over them, means that there is still hope for my lappy! And perhaps a universal fix in the way of a particular solder joint replacement or handyman work...

Gosh, before all of this I thought with an upgrade after 3 years (2yo atm), 2.4->3.06GHz and 512->1024MB RAM and 40GB 5400RPM-> 60GB 7200RPM, DVD-CD-RW-> DVD-RAM/RW+-R, I could get this puppy to last as a semi-portable desktop that could run the latest windows after 6-7 years...

OH WELL...

I guess if I had a mainstream laptop from a major company like IBM, Dell, Toshiba... once the warranty was gone, any hint of motherboard troubles and they wouldn't give a hoot... At least with sager, I can upgrade, and have a service manual so I can open her up and understand a lot more about what is going on...

Nope, I can't remember that last time I saw Fanta!!!
My Laptop has had a pretty easy life in the last year. Mostly used as a desktop. I quit traveling about a year ago and this is what really chapped my hide about replacing the LCD cover 4x. The thing cracked just sitting on the counter with the lid open for 3months!!!!
I have never: Dropped, Kicked, Punched, Watered, or Fanta'd my Laptop.
The 56XX LCD cover design is a complete joke. All of the torque from opening and closing the LCD is transmitted through the plastic to a very thin piece of sheetmetal. And yes, I loosened the hinges to the point where they almost wont keep the lid open. Stupid.

Ok, I feel a little better....

Issues to date on the 56XX:

1. LCD cover replaced 4X Total of $165
2. Broken LCD latch 2x FreeofCharge (another bad design-breaks from closing cover)
3. Dead battery after 8mos. Warranty
4. Warranteed battery fails after another 8mos. Not warranty
5. Front CD display is completely cracked and unreadable. I'm sure this is from the heat that this thing produces.

Wow!!! And we put up with this stuff!!!

Blake

Comments on post from bwalker5 -

1. I have never had any issues with the lcd frame, and my machine has been travelling daily for its whole life including a round world trip and a visit to russia, (It does travel in a full padded pelican case) I have noticed that the lid feels rather weak as you open it, and was initially concerned that it might break, but alas, no probs. Maybe check and see if there is an additional internal support plate that they may have left out during initial manufacture - exploded view from manual...

2. My latch broke by the time the machine was 3mth old, but it was not important enough to me to worry about replacing. Its a stupid design, and I bet most of them out there are broken!! I think the only way to save the catch is to hold it back every time you shut the lid.

3. My batt lasted 2hrs at first, after 1yr, it was down to about .5hr, now its about 5min!! Lucky battery life is not critical for me. I think that cheap batteries are one of the first shortcuts used with cheap laptops because the problem takes 6 - 12 mths to surface, and by then your wty is gone. I have a 7 yr old IBM and the batt still works!

5. No front display probs, but then, my machine only run quite warm, not super hot. (P4 1.8G)

Been looking around at name brand machines, but bang for buck wise, they are miles behind the sager/clevo mahines arent they.

Man, this is all starting to sound like a recording with different names!!!!
My 1st cover lasted 1 year, 2nd I loosened the hinges, 3rd failed without even moving the cover!!
I guess the question is....

SAGER(Clevo), ARE YOU LISTENING???

If you find a Mainboard, Let us know where.... I would like to try replacing it and see what happens.....

Blake