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Windows 7 to have add-on XP Mode

post #1 of 16
4/24/09 at 10:08pm
Thread Starter 
In a new posting from Paul Thurott, an extensive tester and blogger about new versions of Windows, he revealed a new add-on for Business, Enterprise, and Ultimate versions of Windows 7 to run a virtualized XP environment in Windows 7, a significantly different approach to backwards compatibility than Windows has used to date.


Quote:
Over a month ago, we were briefed about a secret Microsoft technology that we were told would be announced alongside the Windows 7 Release Candidate (RC) and would ship in final form simultaneously with the final version of Windows 7. This technology, dubbed Windows XP Mode (XPM, formerly Virtual Windows XP or Virtual XP, VXP), dramatically changes the compatibility story for Windows 7 and, we believe, has serious implications for Windows development going forward. Here's what's happening.

XPM is built on the next generation Microsoft Virtual PC 7 product line, which requires processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD) to be present and enabled on the underlying PC, much like Hyper-V, Microsoft's server-side virtualization platform. However, XPM is not Hyper-V for the client. It is instead a host-based virtualization solution like Virtual PC; the hardware assistance requirement suggests this will be the logical conclusion of this product line from a technological standpoint. That is, we fully expect future client versions of Windows to include a Hyper-V-based hypervisor.

...
Read more at Paul Thurott's SuperSite
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post #2 of 16
4/24/09 at 10:40pm
very very cool
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post #3 of 16
4/24/09 at 11:50pm
Thread Starter 
much as I'd like to see XP just die and us move on as a society, actually this even more beneficial for the future of Windows. by having a virtualized environment for backwards compatibility, it eliminates the need for having to spend tons of time and effort on tweaking the main OS code and having to enclude tons of unnecessary code, ballooning the size of the operating system to enormous levels *cought 15 GB for Vista*. have a virtualized environment for compatibility, and a small, compact codebase for new OS, and you greatly increase performance, stability, and maintenance

this paves the way for the Windows roadmap shown years ago (while Vista was still in development), which indicated the next version after 7 would drop ALL backwards compatibility from the codebase
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post #4 of 16
4/25/09 at 12:48am
I am glad to see that Microsoft taking the road of virtual XP to further the support of this about to be dropped. As you mentioned, this is the cleanest way to allow XP needed apps to be run side by side with the newest architecture.

Challenges are now being passed to the device manufacturers, to decide about furthering supports for XP.

cheers ...
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post #5 of 16
4/25/09 at 1:57pm
Well, given the installed base of Windows XP and the fact that mainly businesses will need to stick to XP, it is a quite smart move.

Of course, like we saw with Windows 98, it will take XP about 7 or 10 years to completely die. By then, if humankind is still alive or I'm still here I will be posting on NBF3D on my quadruple 30-core 20nm die PentiumCore rig.

Just to clarify: I've seen Mr. Reaper close to the face about 7 times in my life. Given that, I don't know how long I can keep dodging the bastid. But I guess he'll be all "meh" when he finally gets me.
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post #6 of 16
4/25/09 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by qhn View Post

Challenges are now being passed to the device manufacturers, to decide about furthering supports for XP.

cheers ...
Please elaborate.

So there's going to be no performance hit with cpu virtualization usage and graphic's running XP in this virtual environment?

Seem's unlikely to me,and in which case,people will just continue to use XP,supported or not.
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post #7 of 16
4/25/09 at 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerryjoson View Post
Please elaborate.
Since the introduction of Vista, coupled with hints by Microsoft that XP is on the way out, many devices/notebooks manufacturers simply take the high road of "no XP drivers".

For Microsoft to offer the possibility of running XP within its new generation OS would put more pressure on the manufacturers to make available XP drivers in order to claim the full W7 (or whatever) support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerryjoson View Post
So there's going to be no performance hit with cpu virtualization usage and graphic's running XP in this virtual environment?
I use Virtual PC within Linux, Mac and Vista. It does what the machines are offering. Not so sure about hard gaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerryjoson View Post
Seem's unlikely to me,and in which case,people will just continue to use XP,supported or not.
Meaning people will keep using XP, supported or not? Sure, people still uses W2K, Win98 - as long as the OS supports what they are doing and meeting the needs. I do not see any differences pertaining to XP.

cheers ...
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post #8 of 16
4/25/09 at 11:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerryjoson View Post
So there's going to be no performance hit with cpu virtualization usage and graphic's running XP in this virtual environment?
it requires the CPU support for VT-x/AMD-VT. as far as I'm aware, that hypervisor support allows the virtualized machine to run at the full performance of the main processor. my desktop doesnt have processor vritualization support so I cant test for myself for sure (my notebook does, and im in the process of setting up a virtualized Linux for development purposes using VirtualBox, but I dont have any copies of XP anymore to install in one to try benching)
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post #9 of 16
4/26/09 at 2:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by qhn View Post
Since the introduction of Vista, coupled with hints by Microsoft that XP is on the way out, many devices/notebooks manufacturers simply take the high road of "no XP drivers".

For Microsoft to offer the possibility of running XP within its new generation OS would put more pressure on the manufacturers to make available XP drivers in order to claim the full W7 (or whatever) support.


I use Virtual PC within Linux, Mac and Vista. It does what the machines are offering. Not so sure about hard gaming.


Meaning people will keep using XP, supported or not? Sure, people still uses W2K, Win98 - as long as the OS supports what they are doing and meeting the needs. I do not see any differences pertaining to XP.

cheers ...

I'm thinking more about the many engineering company's [and probably most DCC producer's]that use older version's of their cad/DCC software and tend to lag a long time behind with OS update's,I'm wondering who this is actually aimed at or really what the point is,if a company has older version's of software [like me] that doesn't support Vista or W7,why would they bother with a new OS that require's the software to be run in VT.....at least until the software vendor drop's support for XP,which in this particular industry,[will be a while yet due to the unpopularity of Vista and the associated software version's],then would be the logical time to change OS and software version's....just like with 2k.

I was under the impression that any sort of VT doesn't support graphic's hardware acceleration,meaning that cad user's would be running their software under openGL software emulation.
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post #10 of 16
4/26/09 at 2:07am
Thread Starter 
VirtualBox and VMWare have graphics hardware acceleration. this is being based on Microsoft's VirtualPC, which I havent actually used byt im sure that, if it doesnt already, for htis they would add the fuctions
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post #11 of 16
4/27/09 at 1:32am
So would you be able to install older, XP designed, games on Win7 and run it using this "Virtual XP" and not see a major performance hit due to running the operating system in a virtual environment?
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post #12 of 16
4/27/09 at 1:46am
Correct, as long as you find the XP drivers that support the new devices.

cheers ...
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post #13 of 16
4/27/09 at 9:30am
this is awesome news. It makes updating a lot less stressful.
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post #14 of 16
5/20/09 at 4:34pm
Look up MS Virtual PC. It has been free since about 2004. It is what XP mode is based on. You can run just about any OS on just about any OS with it. I've used it for running Win9x in both XP and Vista.

I'm amazed that so many people don't know about it.

To spell it out bluntly, you can run VPC in XP and Vista and run just about any OS from DOS to Vista in it.
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post #15 of 16
5/22/09 at 6:51pm
I prefer SunMicro's VirtualBox... anyone try that?
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post #16 of 16
7/23/09 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djembe View Post
very very cool
Not so very cool, as XP needs less memory than W7 to run.
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