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low-cost gaming machine

post #1 of 17
4/30/09 at 3:51am
Thread Starter 
i'm looking to put together a machine (not for me, i'm quite happy with my baby - thanks again to everyone) that is as cheap as possible but still nothing to scoff at. it'll get used a lot for gaming, but since he's currently running a 4 year old dell, i'm pretty sure anything i put in front of him will be a pleasant surprise.

help i could use, in order of priority:

1 - cutting costs without losing too much performance. i'm not sure where the floor is for a machine that's worth calling a gaming rig, so i'm kind of in the dark here.
2 - small investments that will yield significant performance gains.
3 - lessons on how to walk on water

what i've got right now is $700 including tax and shipping, which is probably the upper limit as far as cost goes.

mobo - GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3LR
cpu - Intel Pentium E5400 2.7GHz
gpu - Sapphire Radeon HD 4830
case/cpu - antec sonata iii w/ earthwatts 500W psu
monitor - asus high resolution 19" widescreen (1680x1050)
ram - 4 gigs of whatever reputable ddr2 800 is cheap at order time
hdd - wd caviar 640gig 7200rpm
dvd-r - one of the ones that is ~$25 with free shipping at order time

my biggest questions:

gpu - enough power, or should i step up to the 9800gtx+/gts250/hd 4850 realm? i'm assuming it's not worth the minimal cost savings of stepping down to the 9600gt. (or are there other cards i should be considering?)

cpu/mobo - i started out assuming i'd be putting together an amd system, but i'm pretty sure i've got a considerably better combo here for the money than i could get with amd (more punch, less heat, less power consumption, more modern architecture).

monitor - i have no experience with the so-called high resolution monitors, though i see a few of them out there from brands i trust to make a good monitor. i wonder about a 19" widescreen having the same resolution as my 22" widescreen, but i imagine it would be nice. or awful. anyone ever gazed upon one?

case/psu - used this combo before on another build for another friend. pretty nice case, pretty solid psu. i looked for a long time, trying to find a better deal (not willing to go any lower quality-wise on the psu, only willing to drop slightly in case quality) and came up empty - though i suspect i may have more watts than i need with 500.

any and all pointers, suggestions, and questioning-of-my-sanity is welcomed. also, purchase time won't be until early june - are there any game changers scheduled for the next 4-6 weeks?

thanks in advance!

edit: i also imagine this 1 fan case would benefit from one of those 2-slot gpu cards that exhausts the hot air out of the case...
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post #2 of 17
4/30/09 at 5:53am
I'd get a 9800GTX+ (like 110 on newegg after rebates). Also AMD just dropped a crippled (dual core vs quad) 65nm Phenom for a few bucks less than the 5400. It's about the same speed as a 5300, but excels in all the gaming benchmarks. (I think it's a 7850)

I'm not that well read when it comes to monitors these days so I'm not sure how that one is. (Though the specs are decent)

As for hdd I'd go with a Seagate, but that's just personal preference.

Just threw up a similar spec'd rig on newegg because I'm planning on building a low cost gaming rig myself. Came out to $475 with 2gb ram, 160gb hdd, 9800GTX+, etc.

Case is an Antec Three Hundred with a 500W OCZ Stealthstream. I could have chosen a 700W version and come out to around the same price as the Antec Sonata w/ 500W psu.
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post #3 of 17
4/30/09 at 11:03am
What kind of PSU are you thinking about?
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post #4 of 17
4/30/09 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
@chode - sweet, thanks for all the info. i'll go piece together an amd system and see if i can match your crazy-low cost - it'll help to have something to aim for. i assume ocz makes a decent psu? i only know a few names to trust in the psu realm...

@duke - any psu that's good quality and suitable for the build will do. i figured something around 500W (+/- 50W) would be good. the sonata case comes with an earthwatts 500W, which iirc is a rebranded seasonic - but i'll probably look some more, starting with the ocz that chode mentioned...
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post #5 of 17
4/30/09 at 2:25pm
500W should be fine for you. You're obviously not going to be doing any Sli config, nor would i recommend that for gaming, but 500W should give you enough juice without increasing your electric bill significantly.
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post #6 of 17
4/30/09 at 2:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@NBF View Post
500W should be fine for you. You're obviously not going to be doing any Sli config, nor would i recommend that for gaming, but 500W should give you enough juice without increasing your electric bill significantly.
do you think i could drop any lower? the ars budget box guide lists a system with the cpu that (i think) chode was talking about, and a 4850 gpu - and a 380W psu...but ati specs a minimum psu of 450W for that very card...
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post #7 of 17
4/30/09 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zem Frim-Bott View Post
do you think i could drop any lower? the ars budget box guide lists a system with the cpu that (i think) chode was talking about, and a 4850 gpu - and a 380W psu...but ati specs a minimum psu of 450W for that very card...
No. I have a 450 watt PSU running a single 7900 GTX with four hard drives. That's pushing it right there. You're probably going to want an expandable motherboard for upgrades. Don't limit yourself on budget builds. The motherboard will be your most important piece.
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post #8 of 17
5/7/09 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@NBF View Post
500W should be fine for you. You're obviously not going to be doing any Sli config, nor would i recommend that for gaming, but 500W should give you enough juice without increasing your electric bill significantly.
The PSU will only draw the power needed to run the system regardless of what size PSU it is. (Ie: a 1000watt PSU will not use more electricity than a 250watt PSU in the same system (assuming the 250 is sufficient to run the system)). Although, there is some waste in the conversion to DC (ie heat) this will be determined by the unit's efficiency, not it's capacity.

You're best off getting a PSU that supplies more power than you [currently] need so you have some headroom for upgrades. Also as the PSU ages it's output will drop some, so a larger than necesary PSU will give your new system a little more breathing room for longevity too. I'd suggest getting one that's one or two steps larger than needed (Ie: a 500/550 instead of a 400). Also, check that it supplies the stated output at a temperature greater than room temp (about 25C), since output also drops as temp increases, and few computers have internal temperatures as low as room temp.
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post #9 of 17
5/7/09 at 3:12pm
I don't think thats true doc. My buddy has a KW PSU... and it raised our electric bill $50 a month when he left his PC on 24/7. He's not running anthing besides a single GPU, two hard drives and the rest of the box.
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post #10 of 17
5/7/09 at 3:18pm
Just curious, what was his psu?
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post #11 of 17
5/7/09 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@NBF View Post
I don't think thats true doc. My buddy has a KW PSU... and it raised our electric bill $50 a month when he left his PC on 24/7. He's not running anthing besides a single GPU, two hard drives and the rest of the box.
It IS true, at least according to my A+ certification study guide. (I just looked it up again to be sure)

Edit: my guess would be it's either that it's either just a more powerful PC or there is something else (AC, lights on longer etc) that's eating up the extra power.
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post #12 of 17
5/7/09 at 3:38pm
Its the most simple box you can imagine. I'll post specs and take pics to prove it. The results don't lie.
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post #13 of 17
5/7/09 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@NBF View Post
Its the most simple box you can imagine. I'll post specs and take pics to prove it. The results don't lie.
even so, the extra capacity IS NOT the reason for the higher electric bill. If it's an inefficient PSU or it's running (folding/setti/...malware ), or you're staying up later and running the lights more, or playing more games or... hell, just keeping it on 24/7 (if it used to be turned off when not in use). any of those could do it, but it's NOT the capacity on the PSU.
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post #14 of 17
5/7/09 at 4:13pm
did a little more digging and found this on wikipedia:

Quote:
Energy efficiency Computer power supplies are generally about 70–75% efficient.[3] That means in order for a 75% efficient power supply to produce 75 W of DC output it would require 100 W of AC input and dissipate the remaining 25 W in heat. Higher-quality power supplies can be over 80% efficient; higher energy efficient PSU's waste less energy in heat, and requires less airflow to cool, and as a result will be quieter. As of 2007, 93%-efficient power supplies are available.[4]
It's important to match the capacity of a power supply to the power needs of the computer. The energy efficiency of power supplies drops significantly at low loads. Efficiency generally peaks at about 50-75% load. The curve varies from model to model (for examples of how this curve looks see the test reports of energy efficient models found on the 80 PLUS website). As a rule of thumb for standard power supplies it is usually appropriate to buy a supply such that the calculated typical consumption of your computer is about 60% of the rated capacity of the supply provided that the calculated maximum consumption of the computer does not exceed the rated capacity of the supply. Note that advice on overall power supply ratings often given by the manufacturer of single component, typically graphics cards, should be treated with great scepticism.
is it possible that your friend's computer has a PSU that is significantly more powerful than needed? if so the resultant inefficiency could be the problem.

Edit: so I'll go back and say that my example was wrong. and should have read: a modestly overpowered PSU will not use more power than one that is barely powerful enough, and will provide more long term stability, and room for upgrades.
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post #15 of 17
5/7/09 at 4:52pm
Don't know too much about PSU's and what is good, but I just pieced together a bang for the buck gaming desktop. I ended up going with an AMD phenom X4 II (best performance for money imo and its also on sale at newegg right now). They're relatively new but are starting to show their potential. Also,I went with a Sapphire 4850, a very solid card at the price point.

As far as motherboard... defintely don't cheap out. Make sure you have plenty of room for expansion etc.
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post #16 of 17
5/9/09 at 10:08pm
Thread Starter 
man, you guys are better than google - i just sit back and have information tossed my way
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post #17 of 17
7/25/09 at 8:02pm
Thread Starter 
in case anyone is wondering, here's what i wound up going with. my stepson loves it, and it was pretty fun showing him how to assemble a computer.

thanks for the help you all gave me

case: antec 300
psu: antec earthwatts 500
mobo: gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4P (AM3/AM2+/AM2)
cpu: phenom II X2 550 black edition (3.1GHz AM3 80W dual core)
gpu: xfx radeon hd 4850 1gb (went on sale for less than the 9800gtx+)
19" widescreen Hanns-G LCD
4gb ddr2 800, 500GB 7200rpm, dvd burner

grand total $760 - found some great sales/combos, and managed to build it entirely of parts with free shipping
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